Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
The Outsider said:
6 of the Tory rebels went against their constituencies, I suspect very unwise.
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Bit unexpected sure. Nothing unwise about it necessarily (assume they don’t want to be MPs just for the sake of it). People are stupid - we send them there to think for us.
 
buchansleftleg said:
Singling out MP's for scorn, when you know you have a lot of "Britain first" readers, one of whom has actually already killed an MP - Shameful headline from the Daily Mail - one to rank alongside their support for Blackshirts in the 30's

A new low, whatever your politics!
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They know what their 'journalism' does to some of their readers.
 
Dobba said:
They know what their 'journalism' does to some of their readers.
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Daily Mail and BBC comments honestly make me hope there’s Russian bots spamming comments because otherwise I’m a bit scared for this country. Some vile, moronic people out there.
 
Any vote that parliament has after October 2018 on the Exit deal of the UK will only be a yes or no vote, it can't be a vote of we don't like this bit or we don't like that bit, go back and try again. There will be no trade agreement, only a possible transition period and a framework of how the future relationship will look.

What the UK parliament needs is a say on the progress of the negotiations before the deal is agreed, not afterwards.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Any vote that parliament has after October 2018 on the Exit deal of the UK will only be a yes or no vote, it can't be a vote of we don't like this bit or we don't like that bit, go back and try again.
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If parliament wants to it will. That's the point of last night's vote; to ensure a meaningful, statutory vote which Parliament can amend as it chooses, including rejecting a deal and telling govt to go back to negotiating table.
 
Oscie said:
If parliament wants to it will. That's the point of last night's vote; to ensure a meaningful, statutory vote which Parliament can amend as it chooses, including rejecting a deal and telling govt to go back to negotiating table.
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The deal has to be agreed by the end of October 2018 and then is put to the 27 other parliaments and to the UK parliament if they are allowed. If the UK parliament say go back and try again it's a hard brexit. The point of last nights vote is that it's pointless as is next week's vote about the date.
More smoke and mirrors.

Imagine if each of the 27 other parliaments objected to one part. It has to be agreed in the timeframe.
 
Have a smile for Ken Clarke, he's hung on long enough
Paul the Wolf said:
The deal has to be agreed by the end of October 2018 and then is put to the 27 other parliaments and to the UK parliament if they are allowed. If the UK parliament say go back and try again it's a hard brexit. The point of last nights vote is that it's pointless as is next week's vote about the date.
More smoke and mirrors.

Imagine if each of the 27 other parliaments objected to one part. It has to be agreed in the timeframe.
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The UK parliament simply can not tell the EU to re-negotiate, I've no idea why so many people think they can. So I agree with you, except for the timeframe, which could be altered if both sides thought it worthwhile.
 
712 said:
Have a smile for Ken Clarke, he's hung on long enough

The UK parliament simply can not tell the EU to re-negotiate, I've no idea why so many people think they can. So I agree with you, except for the timeframe, which could be altered if both sides thought it worthwhile.
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He must be coming up to 50 years as an MP.

I don't see how the timeframe can be altered much either, the EU elections are in May 2019 so with lead time the UK have to have gone by April at the latest (or stay if Brexit is cancelled completely) which means the last meaningful vote other than yes or no would be November 2018 and even then it would be minor changes at best.
 
So amuzing to see tories in this thread caring about their countries fate when all they've ever cared about is their own own affairs.

I feel the caring boils to the same thing, if the country fails and the pound drops, it will affect me and my tory mates.
 
Yep, it's definitely the Tories that have led to this Brexit thing being a complete clusterfeck. Yes sir.
 
Gee Male said:
Yep, it's definitely the Tories that have led to this Brexit thing being a complete clusterfeck. Yes sir.
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But thats not the point, where has the 'I'm alright jack' mentality gone that existed under thatch? No one gave a fukk about the country then. No one gave a fukk about hospitals shutting. Now its become an important agenda.
 
Stanley Road said:
But thats not the point, where has the 'I'm alright jack' mentality gone that existed under thatch? No one gave a fukk about the country then. No one gave a fukk about hospitals shutting. Now its become an important agenda.
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I assume that after almost 30 years the UK has changed and british people have a different perspective on things.
 
Stanley Road said:
So amuzing to see tories in this thread caring about their countries fate when all they've ever cared about is their own own affairs.

I feel the caring boils to the same thing, if the country fails and the pound drops, it will affect me and my tory mates.
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The class war never goes away SR just ask Chomsky. The argument rarely gets beyond how its going to hit certain people in their pocket.
 
Stanley Road said:
Never assume anything. Tory voters especially never look beyond 'Me'.
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I see what you mean but wanting good hospitals can be included in the "Me", the same thing applies with less pollution, less/more taxes and so on.
 
JPRouve said:
I see what you mean but wanting good hospitals can be included in the "Me", the same thing applies with less pollution, less/more taxes and so on.
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Saying you care about the country is bullshit tho, why suddenly care about it now? Some will even take great joy if everything tanks. It's been crap for years. Do we care about the state of the economy in Chad? No, course not, it doesn't affect me and my family.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I admit I admire you giving half your salary to homeless people.
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That's not his point. He means that anyone pretending to do something for the country more than himself is lying, I believe that he is right on that particular point. Where I would disagree or at the very least be more nuanced is that being self centered won't have the same meaning today compared to under Thatcher, so something that you might accept then won't necessarily be acceptable today.
 
JPRouve said:
That's not his point. He means that anyone pretending to do something for the country more than himself is lying, I believe that he is right on that particular point. Where I would disagree or at the very least be more nuanced is that being self centered won't have the same meaning today compared to under Thatcher, so something that you might accept then won't necessarily be acceptable today.
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I agree, that's what I mean as well. Doesn't matter if it's Tories, Labour, Liberal or whoever. There are very few people who will put other people's interests before their own.
If people want good health services, welfare, care etc then the money has to come from somewhere. The problem is that people don't want to pay more tax and I've agreed with Stan on this before.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I agree, that's what I mean as well. Doesn't matter if it's Tories, Labour, Liberal or whoever. There are very few people who will put other people's interests before their own.
If people want good health services, welfare, care etc then the money has to come from somewhere. The problem is that people don't want to pay more tax and I've agreed with Stan on this before.
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A fairly substantial Labour base votes against its own interests (if you exclude wanting your own political philosophy being in charge as a selfish act). A minority maybe but not very few.
 
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
 
Smores said:
A fairly substantial Labour base votes against its own interests (if you exclude wanting your own political philosophy being in charge as a selfish act). A minority maybe but not very few.
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In which way do Labour voters vote against their interest?

devilish said:
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
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Because they generally lower taxes.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Because they generally lower taxes.
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They are able to do so because they hit good things such as the NHS whose at the brink of collapse or education. How many people in the UK can afford not using the NHS or to send children to private schools? I am aware that the UK is a rich country but surely those who can afford to live without those things are a tiny minority.
 
devilish said:
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
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The term 'Middle England' has been used to describe who wins most elections. Never really had a description yet expected it was mainly home owners.
I guess they are voting for a stable economy and since the banking crisis suspect the Tories are more likely to do that. I am not saying they are correct yet that is probably how they think.
 
devilish said:
I've never really understood why the Tory party keep winning GEs . How many old rich egoistic people there are in the UK?
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Because the people who run the media in this country want them too. It's the same as America in that regard only it's Newspapers over here compared to news stations in America.
 
The Outsider said:
The term 'Middle England' has been used to describe who wins most elections. Never really had a description yet expected it was mainly home owners.
I guess they are voting for a stable economy and since the banking crisis suspect the Tories are more likely to do that. I am not saying they are correct yet that is probably how they think.
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We have the same in my country. The middle class had kept the Nationalist party (ie our tory party version) in government for nearly 25 years. However the NHS and education were always red lines in Malta. When the socialists tried to mess around those 2, the situation got nasty and they ended up out of government for 25 years (they did governed for 2 years but that government collapsed).

Which makes me wonder why do the UK voters allows this shit to happen? We're speaking of the UK here, one of the most prosperious countries in the world. Surely the government can afford providing decent free education and health care if they want to.
 
Pexbo said:
Because the people who run the media in this country want them too. It's the same as America in that regard only it's Newspapers over here compared to news stations in America.
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the media can carry a party up to a certain level. If people are feeling the pinch or they can afford the basics then surely they should vote with theiir brains rather then what the media is telling them.

In the US things are even more ridiculous then in the UK. How come the richest country in the world cant provide free health care to everybody? Which sane government would prefer spending money in more efficient ways of killing foreign people rather then on saving their own?
 
devilish said:
They are able to do so because they hit good things such as the NHS whose at the brink of collapse or education. How many people in the UK can afford not using the NHS or to send children to private schools? I am aware that the UK is a rich country but surely those who can afford to live without those things are a tiny minority.
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Agree completely, as you say it's not just rich old people that vote Tory. How many rich old people read the Sun, Mail, Express and Star.
I know a lot of people that voted Labour all their lives until 2015 & 2017 and they voted Tory, I wonder why.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Agree completely, as you say it's not just rich old people that vote Tory. How many rich old people read the Sun, Mail, Express and Star.
I know a lot of people that voted Labour all their lives until 2015 & 2017 and they voted Tory, I wonder why.
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Brexit maybe?
 
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