Cameron had the ref in his manifesto, no-one else did. not labour, libdems, greens.
Also corbyn was after the 2015 GE where people voted for Brexit boy, Milliband was the leader
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Also corbyn was after the 2015 GE where people voted for Brexit boy, Milliband was the leader
Thats a relief
Yes its all my fault. Unable to vote in any country i take full responsibility.
Actually, they both had a referendum in their manisfesto. But to be honest Labour had a referendum only in case of "major transfers of power" which kind of make your case.
there were more options than lab and con, there is no room for complaining to be honest and using the excuse "Didn't think the ref would go the way it did" is utter nonsense.
Not practically there aren't.
I wanted to vote Green last election tbh. My constituency, however, had an incumbent Labour MP who won with 40% of the vote in 2015 and a Conservative challenger who was predicted to unseat him. A vote for anyone other than the Labour candidate was a vote for the Conservative one.
FPTP is an awful system.
Saw the doc on the beeb last night, it was very one sided but what stood out at the end was one pro remain teen said "Where else are we going to get cheap labour?". jaw dropped.
In 2010 I didn't even think about the UK GE and neither really in 2015, it was only in the autumn of 2015 when the pound started sliding that the danger of the UK leaving the EU became a real possibility that I was reawoken to UK politics. I may have voted Tory just through habit but it wouldn't have mattered if I'd voted for the Russian Communist pro Trump party as where I had been living was always a 25k/30k Tory majority safe seat.
But if one voted now between May and Corbyn who is really the most anti-EU leader. May is an awful PM but you really think Corbyn is any better.
Fortunately I haven't had to make a choice since 2005.
Yes its all my fault. Unable to vote in any country i take full responsibility.
You are renouncing all responsibility but trying to shift the blame onto me and I didn't vote either
I am certainly putting the blame with Tory voters yes, you in particular no. Despite you having said if you were in the UK and had to vote you would probably have voted for Cameroon. So you kinda have to suck it up.You are renouncing all responsibility but trying to shift the blame onto me and I didn't vote either
I am certainly putting the blame with Tory voters yes, you in particular no. Despite you having said if you were in the UK and had to vote you would probably have voted for Cameroon. So you kinda have to suck it up.
And the people who did actually vote for Brexit have no responsibility or blame at all?
They might be happy with how they voted. This could all have been avoided at the ballot box mate, who's shifting blame now?
They might be happy with how they voted. This could all have been avoided at the ballot box mate, who's shifting blame now?
We'll find out how happy they are when this is all sorted out, they don't seem too happy with it at the moment otherwise they wouldn't be asking for the cherries they're not going to get , trying to get transition etc.
Imagine if the talks stopped now and March 2019 arrived with no further progress, the EU would have problems but the UK would be paralysed.
That's next years episode
Government's Brexit Impact Analysis was released today. Predictions aren't looking too rosy, ranges from "Bad" to "Oh Shit, what are you doing"
https://www.parliament.uk/documents...EU-Exit-Analysis-Cross-Whitehall-Briefing.pdf
https://www.parliament.uk/documents...EU-Exit-Analysis-Cross-Whitehall-Briefing.pdf
Personally I don't mind remaining in the Single Market and the Customs Union, so for me the compromise would be on that. The problem is that the gov might feel that staying in those and allowing freedom of movement etc may be getting too close to not being true to the Brexit people voted for, but when you consider the actual vote was more something along the lines of 'Shall we leave the EU' then imo it still should be an option.
Imo the financial services sector is too imoportant too simply cast aside without strong access. Yes there's a lot more to it than just the EU, and the job losses aren't actually that huge relative to the overall sector as well as there being a huge amount of skills and workers in the UK / London for financial services compared to other EU countries for the forseable future, but I feel over the long long-term it'll cause it'll cause a weakening of that sector here. Knowing a lot of people who work in financial services I'd much rather see that sector protected.
If they really are adamant about leaving the single market then I'd hope the gov at least threaten to enact tariffs on goods to the detriment of the EU if they are intent on no flexibility over financial services, but imo remaining in the single market may well end up be the solution that gov has to take considering it deals with the questions on the Ireland and Gibraltar borders too.
Tariffs are paid by the buyer not the seller, so it's an empty threat, it's a bit like threatening to jump from a roof. From the EU pov, the only problem is convenience, it's better to not have tariffs because it reduces frictions, encourages trade and therefore increases effectiveness.
Also something that is important to remember, UK's balance is inflated by the fact that EU supply chains are partially in the UK, said supply chains could relatively easily be relocated in the EU during the next 10 years.
https://www.lloydsloadinglist.com/f...paring-to-cut-UK-from-supply-chains/70701.htm
Well that's the UK prerogative to decide upon as much as its the EU prerogative what sort of deal it wants to give the UK. My point is that the UK can't first remove almost everything off the table (FOM, Single market, Customs union) and then expect if not demand a deal that was never been given before (ie a trade deal with financial services attached) especially since the UK is leaving the very union they influenced to shape. The UK has little leverage, its reputation with the EU had hit rock bottom and after Davis's Boris's and May's gaffes I can't really blame the EU if they think that the UK politicians are a bunch of idiots who has absolutely no idea what they want or what they are doing.
Brexit will hit the EU hard. However a lack of trade deal on goods is far less damaging one can think. Don't forget that the UK has made it quite obvious that they wish to lower tariffs to everyone. That means that irrespective of any deal made the EU's market share in the UK is set to shrink as there's no way that European farmers can compete with chlorinated chicken from the US or products from Africa etc. However, can the UK afford losing out on a market were its sells half of its products?
Agree with what @JPRouve said.
Being in the SM and CU would solve the financial services and the border problems but that means the UK would be in the EU in all but name but with no vote so worse than now and thus pointless for them to leave.
Should they not accept the CU/SM then they would have to apply for WTO membership and abide by the WTO rules.
As indicated by the government assessment whichever way the UK goes, they are going to be worse off, it just depends on the degree.
All this was classed as scaremongering beforehand, it really wasn't.
Since the City is, quite frankly, toxic and GB was one of the biggest reason we didn't get proper regulation after the last crash, it is likely one of the main goals of the EU to deny the City as much access to the single market as possible. To be honest, I hope they crush it. It's better for everyone. It's the single benefit I see in Brexit.
Yes its all my fault. Unable to vote in any country i take full responsibility.
You are not very far form the pin there. Complacency, ie people not voting because they thought it wouldn't make a difference, is why Brexit happened.
and especially as 48% voted to stay in as well... I think any deal is going to be so unpalatable that in the end a 2nd referendum about accepting the final deal will become inevitable - sadly if there is a 2nd referendum it probably will be less about the technicalities and economic impact of any deal but will again become divisive sound bite politics
The problem is that it provides a huge portion of Britain’s tax base. It should have been heavily reformed after the global crash but to just destroy it now leaves a massive hole in the nations finances that can’t easily be replaced.
Yeah but...now you are out, why should I actually care? We are talking about the investment banking parts here and that can go to hell.
No reason at all why you should care. You said it was good for everyone though, and much as I wish that was true, it’s not that simple.
Not really that simple though, a lot of people voted based on wanting sovereignty and don't really care for the financial repurcissions (especially outside of London where a lot of that is based). You see that to an extent now with the vote in Italy swinging to the right and reform parties, mostly due to anti-immigration and anti-EU sentiment.
If it were up to me, I'd just stay due to the financial, co-operation etc benefits, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should simply dismiss other people's concerns, regardless of whether we judge it to be right or wrong, because at the end of the day their vote counts as much as ours.
You might care once hordes of unemployed immigrant bankers show up in your country!
Lol that would be pretending you actually cared for the UK before we left, and by judging by your posts in this forum over the last few years I sincerely doubt that/
That's just anti-UK sentiment and isn't really true. There's no guarantee simply removing the UK from the single market means anything will change. And don't forget the last crash was primarily due to subprime mortgage loans in the US. Of course it spread to the UK and the rest of the world but we weren't at cause for it. I have a lot of friends that work in banking (primarily in tech) and I'd hate to see people's livelihoods lost simply because people are looking to 'punish' the UK. Saying the City is toxic isn't remotely true either. Investment banking serves many useful purposes.
Yes I understand that there were other reasons including those you stated but the sovereignty question is misleading, I now live in France but the laws here are not the same as in the UK, the majority of laws are decided by the national governments of each country. As for immigration, is it because people just don't like people from another country or is it because they think the immigrants are causing economic problems to the UK which quite clearly is not the case.
Furthermore the UK have complete control over the immigration from outside the EU but the level of immigration from outside the EU is double the limit the government have set as their target, nothing to do with the EU. Moreover, the immigration from outside the EU will almost certainly increase as the immigration from the EU decreases, I doubt this was what the Brexit voters thought they were voting for.
The media in the UK have a great deal of responsibility for misleading the voters. Everyone is entitled to their vote but to vote in a particular way because you have been lied to is what I object to.
You are just salty that people on the continent are now watching out for their own interest just as much as the UK tries to do that for itself. I care about the economical well being of Europe, which included the UK at some point. That was the reason I was against Scottish Independence just as much as I was against Brexit. It doesn't belong to the EU anymore, so you are just a competitor that wants totake advantage and can be taken advantage of. It's in my interest as a European and a German that the EU get's the best deal possible. But with your mighty experience of almost 400 posts on this forum, please tell me more about my views on the UK as part of the EU or as an cmpetitor.
>Investment banking serves many useful purposes.
Some of it, yes. Most of it, no, none at all. It's basically betting and it has been responsible for all major economic downturns during my lifetime. World economy could do without it for the best part of the past 100 years. It doesn't serve systemic purpose but carries systemic risk. That's bad. If a bank is too big to fail, said bank shouldn't exist.
"All my lies have been uncovered and I've been sent back to school for re-education and how to tell the truth"
I see rhe govenor of ING bank just got a 50% payrise despite mark rutte saying if bankers want more money then feck off to London. One financial institution is as poisonous as the next.
You clearly don't understand investment banking at all if you think most of it is betting, which I presume is your way of saying buying/selling stocks, commodities etc the way those firms do in films like Wall Street etc. That's trading which is a subsection of IB. Investment banking is on the whole very varied and is very important to the running of the financial system. They deal with things like underwriting IPOs, debt raising for business / dealing bonds (like getting a mortgage but on a larger scale), dealing with mergers and acquisitions and more. It's crucial to the running of our society today, especially for large businesses, and it's very very false to say the world could've done without for the past 100 years. It exists because there's a need for it. I understand it's fashionable to say 'let's bash bankers', but without understanding what IB actually is it justs comes across as uninformed.
On the rest, idk maybe I'm confusing you with another Bayern supporter, but I'm fairly sure you're the poster who's very pro-German in both footballing threads and in this section. I'm just calling you out on it. But likewise as a Brit I care about the UK, I guess it's natural to be nationalistic. It's just a bit grating reading this thread when it's the same 4-5 pro-EU posters posting over and over again in a derogatory manner towards the UK in a thread that they themselves say is more important to the UK then the EU. Case in point, one of my earlier posts received a reply from 4 people saying the same thing and I'm fairly sure they all quoted me the last time I posted in this thread about 6 months ago. The circle wank is just a bit annoying really.
Its funny you are very good at replying but refused to interact with me when I brought up the potential conflict in NI.
Standard british behavior for those of us who look in from the outside
Maybe cos its solvable and there will be a solution. The banking world on the other hand isnt. I Did say if noone wants a border dont have one, then people replied that x rules dictate you have to. Ok dont join an org eith those rules in place. Nend the feckin rules.
I am a Brit and am disgusted at what a bunch of idiots have done to the country. The reason 4 people said the same thing is because that's what reality is.
Sticking your fingers in your ears and singing lalala is not going to change that.
Your words:I'd hope the gov at least threaten to enact tariffs on goods to the detriment of the EU - well done for calling people out.
Living in fantasy land and not wanting to hear or read things you don't want to is not going to solve the mess that Brexit voters have put the UK in.
80% of what you're describing is just banking, not investment banking.
If you think this thread is grating imagine whats it's like to repeatedly, over years, hear UK politicianst lie about the EU, Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands etc. Imagine how grating it is that the UK made the liar in chief foreing secretary. Imagine how grating it is when the one member of the club who has the (by far) best deal in the club describing that club in such a way as brexiteers have done.
If being dealt the truth about yourself is grating to you imagine being dealt lies about you.
This.
Telling me "how I don't have a clue about IB" and then spelling out how you don't have any clue about it is quite funny to be honest.
That's a taxation issue and very much a national one and has got little to nothing to do with how banks are run. In general, most contemporary banks in Europe have been just as bad as the English ones in the past 30 years. They have largely left the truly hazardous markets since then though. But if we really want to get thorough change in the banking sector, the most important part is to throw the UK finance sector out it. Because there's zero will to increase regulation in the UK and it has been adamant in it's defense. Without London, we might have a chance. As I said, likely he only positive outcome of this.