Part of what I was saying.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's the weirdest cockney accent I've heard. But he says 'Twat' with a delivery that McKellen wishes he could emulate.
The recent criticisms of Labour Brexit stance has come from 1)The Pro EU march which mostly had Lib Dems and pro EU conservatives 2)The banner at the Labour Live thing was from a group who share a office with former Lib Dems and Tory politicians.
It wasn't meant as a dig.
The whole point may be to move politics towards the left - nevertheless all political leaders have to be aware of what's happening in a more general context as well. If Brexit's a disaster and Corbyn's seen as having placated it I suspect the Labour centrists will take advantage in the long-term. Corbyn's left-wing politics don't exist in a cosy vacuum - Brexit's the biggest national issue (generally speaking) we face right now and promoting a left-wing platform filled with mostly reasonable and decent ideas while ignoring it evidently strikes a lot of people as somewhere between delusional and disingenuous.
Ultimately the group who're benefiting most from his stance here are right-wing Brexiteers who want to see less immigrants.
I'm coming around more to the idea that the window of opportunity for the first-world Left created by the financial crisis has been repeatedly squandered and is now beyond reach. Bernie and Corbyn were mirages that gave false hope of something changing. In both countries, domestic politics will ensure they will not get power. The other ticking clock is global warming, and 2016 made sure that's ahead of schedule. The world is fecked.
What part of London would that be?
East London.
Only chavs from Essex who think it's cool to be a cockney caricature talk like he does.
I work for a foreign exchange company.
The pound is going to fall off a cliff in March isn't it?
The pound is going to fall off a cliff in March isn't it?
I don't think people will wait 'til the last minute to sell pounds. If it does fall off a cliff it will be at the moment 'no deal' becomes probable, not several months afterwards.
And of course those of us with foreign assets will clean up again, whilst those without will just have the inflation to deal with.
The paradox of brexit is summed up when you find out Danny Dyer voted to leave.
Should start falling from October when it starts to become clear we are leaving without a deal. I know traders who are already shorting the £.
Or when a no-deal is a certain outcome.
Not to worry though, Brexiters will say the UK's exports will be even more cheap (worthless) and it was overvalued (yet again) anyway.
I dont understand why your entire political establishment is allowing Farage & JRM to drive the country off a cliff. Why the feck does no deal brexit look the most likely outcome at this stage?
Agree with you on this. The left, certainly aided by Corbyn's un-invisibility cloak, have become useful idiots to us right-wingers.
Apparently the ultimate aim is that in 20 years time the UK will have managed to obtain what they already have but have to suffer for 20 years to achieve that.
Or something like that. I know it makes no sense.
The genius of brexit is making it look like the elite want us to stay in the EU or that brexit was some sort of protest. I think most revolutions have that facade.
The reason no one seems to be able to stop hard brexit is simple.
Freedom of Movement.
It's the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. That and the fact some people on the left and right, have a fantasy of a post brexit utopia.
Because we are run by useless idiots.
I mean using this forum as a microcosm:
the only Tory voter who has openly abandoned their party is Paul. But he had already left before Brexit. Everybody else was either a Brexiteer (Nick, both Vidics, Fearless) or hasn't left despite opposition to Brexit (Colin I guess).
OTOH, half the Labour support openly wants to ditch the party on this issue and some did vote Lib Dem.
The Tories are licking their lips at turning the country into an American style society.
Paul did admit he would have voted for Cameron if he had to vote, comical.
I agree with most of that. The window was there and was indeed squandered. I think we’re at a point now where the only positive route is to step back and consolidate, focus on the immediate crisis problems, and look ahead for the bigger improvements. If we insist on them now, then the house is going to burn down around us.
They see the EU as a neoliberal leviathan. His comrades in ideology want to leave the EU and develop and new socialist state.
Personally I think Corbyn is loving Brexit because 1. it can destroy the Tories for a generation and 2. it removes us from the EU.
I’m sure privately him and McDonnell feel the pieces are falling into place for them.
In truth it was always a strong possibility given the complexity of the deal... I mean we have not even sorted out the Irish boarder which was always a pretty obvious sticking point... Let alone the technical details of a trade deal... I mean realistically I don't think even the blinkered brexiteer brigade expect services in general or even a special financial services deal to be on the table now...
That’s definitely what’s happening.
Of course, this is shitting over the vision a lot of the more progressive Labour voters would have for Britain as an open-minded, welcoming, inclusive and integrated European democracy.
Hence he’s faffing around in the margins, trying to be all things to all men while actually achieving the square root of feck all.
Did I. I don't know - I hadn't lived in the UK for 8 years before the 2015 election and didn't follow UK politics at all after I left until the pound started nosediving in November 2015.
One thing is for certain I wouldn't have voted for Corbyn and now I wouldn't vote for the Tories or Labour.
But it's hypothetical. The first time I ever voted as an 18 year old I voted Labour.
That's how I see it too and when you listen to the answer that he gave to Piers Morgan, he is offering hard brexit.
With a different flavour cake to eat. But this was obvious from before the referendum.
All of this could be true even if Corbyn took a more pro remain stance.
He's on a different planet if he thinks he wouldn't get any blowback when hard brexit turnns to shit.
.
You have to admit that the man is smooth though.
I don't rate him at all. You know how poorly I rate the current government, somehow I rate him lower.
The problem is that it is deeper underlying issues that created these crises (Brexit and Trump). So beating them without addressing inequality (for example) will just mean we get a worse repeat sooner or later.
It's not just domestic politics though, is it? There is also a messaging problem here. Jeremy Corbyn campaigning for Brexit is like Indian techies who came to US on H1 getting citizenship and then protesting H1. A liberal all inclusive society friendly to immigrant population (both legal and forced) is at odds with the anti-globalistic view of Corbyn. The guy is doing his best to manage his message not to piss off both sides. I don't get why Jeremy Corbyn should be held to a higher standard than any other politician but hard lefties now insisting younger people in favor of Brexit to see the bigger picture to get a far left candidate are the same who wouldn't compromise on Sanders.
Right, so your issue is that the left wants compromise with Corbyn but not with the Dems. The problem is the political situations in both countries are very different.
It's been discussed in this thread that Labour voters have 2 viable options if Corbyn decided a firm stance wrt Brexit - Tories and LD, and they've shown that it's not impossible that they'll leave. OTOH, his manifesto which focused on welfare programs was popular and the #1 reason people voted for him (confirmed in polling).
In the US, you have universally popular positions (healthcare, college, min wage, money out of politics) for which nobody else has shown consistent sincere support. The halfway solution of ACA, wage reductions with NAFTA, gutting welfare (all supported by Dems) have led to a situation where voters are apathetic/drawn to the right. In 2008, Bush and the GOP had record bad numbers, much worse than anything Trump has now. The war, Katrina, and the crisis had together destroyed all credibility. Yet within 2 years the situation was overturned. In those 2 years, what Obama delivered was compromise solutions and a thank-you to Wall St. By 2016 the GOP had taken a frightening majority in state races, and both houses of Congress, and then the presidency. So the left's fear is that by repeating the compromise formula, you just keep ceding ground to the right. The right further kills voting, reduces welfare, kills healthcare, yet the simple/clear answer to that isn't coming from the Dems. Hillary 2016 would have repeated this pattern, possibly paving the way for something worse. Which is why Bernie - basic social safety nets could prevent the descent into more right-wing lunacy, restore some bargaining power to labour, and eventually attack the root (corporate power).
Yes, it's in this very thread. You would have voted for the very man that gave you what you now hate.
Corbyn pre the election wasn't seen as an electoral asset, remember the Blairites took charge of Labour remain and put Alan Johnson in charge, you can't blame Corbyn for the strategy.
Having said that Labour now should be full remain
Having said that Labour now should be full remain
Well if I did, you are still saying that the people who voted for Brexit have no responsibility at all. If Cameron then also voted for Brexit, yes.
If I'd have been living in the UK I would have given it more consideration before I voted. I have always only voted for what was in my interest, not some ideology.
He didn't give it to me or to you. What I hate is the idea that Britain is trying to destroy itself and even more so through gross stupidity.
Another hypothetical question: who would you have voted for in the 2015 election?