Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Oscie said:
Public opinion is influenced by the level of the debate and you have one party tearing itself apart competing over who can deliver the most damaging Brexit and meanwhile Labour think it's fine to do a UKIP and shit on immigrants and be a bit racist because "...look at the Lib Dems". It's all a bit fecking horrible.
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I hope everything goes to shit worldwide so i can laugh at your posts blaming labour forever. You're like an angry wasp round a pont glass.
 
Guardian:
Reports at the weekend suggested that about 40 of the 48 MPs needed had lodged no-confidence letters with the chairman of the party’s backbench 1922 Committee after May had indicated that the UK was prepared to sign up to a “common rule book” for food and goods after Brexit.

There is a belief in Conservative circles that a no-confidence vote in May will have to be called by Wednesday this week as there will otherwise not be time to hold it before parliament breaks up for the summer on Tuesday 24 July. To win, the prime minister has to win over half of the Tory party’s 316 MPs, and if she does, another no-confidence vote could not be held for 12 months.
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Honest John said:
Yeah but she's proposing a three-way vote.

1. No Deal (WTO Rules)
2. TM's Deal (whatever that is)
3. Remain in the EU
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Well #2 isn't an option because they're going to reject the deal.

I'd be really wary of a referendum with three options. Say #2 is labelled as a "soft brexit" in some fashion. I don't think many leaver's would go for that whereas I think there are probably people who were on the fence/voted remain who will opt for #2 over #3. Essentially it's given remain voters 2 options which keep Britain EU tied and giving leaver's the same option as before. #1 would win comfortably imo
 
Nothing's changed since the referendum in June 2016

Either the UK are in or out of the EU.
All the ridiculous proposals the government have made since the referendum are all non-starters.

There is very little time left to arrange and hold a referendum so what happens in between, negotiations continue, stop, put on hold, cancelled?
The EU want to get on with life and not hang around for the UK to decide what it wants and then keep changing its mind.

The Uk are leaving in March 2019 and unless something happens very quickly that's not going to change.
 
The issue is people thinking leave means one thing. It's why we still get sub-intellect radio hosts and newspaper columnists yelling "just get on with it". The sad truth is the people championing Brexit and perhaps many of the people who voted for it, are too thick to actually know what it is. It's never been as simple as deciding to walk out of a room yet whenever anyone who supports Brexit speaks they refer to it in terms as if they genuinely think it's as straight forward as leaving a room, and that's gone from being comical at the beginning, annoying in the middle and is now bloody dangerous as we approach the end.

This is what "Brexit means Brexit" gets you. The nutters lapped that up because it gave them an excuse not to think. Who cares what type of trade deal we want or are likely to get, Brexit means Brexit, right? And if that doesn't work shout "Just get on with it" a few times.


The only positive is that the EU do want us to stay so they would be willing to extend/defer the Article 50 leaving date. Everything we know about what the EU wants, what they've said and what their likely neogitation strategy to be is keeping the UK practically in the EU. Because there will be an economic impact on them too if we crash out. The idea they'll get to March 29th and decide they'd happily take that hit because they're 'bored' of the process is every bit as ridiculous as the analysis that the hardline Brexit nutcases are pumping out.
 
Oscie said:
The issue is people thinking leave means one thing. It's why we still get sub-intellect radio hosts and newspaper columnists yelling "just get on with it". The sad truth is the people championing Brexit and perhaps many of the people who voted for it, are too thick to actually know what it is. It's never been as simple as deciding to walk out of a room yet whenever anyone who supports Brexit speaks they refer to it in terms as if they genuinely think it's as straight forward as leaving a room, and that's gone from being comical at the beginning, annoying in the middle and is now bloody dangerous as we approach the end.

This is what "Brexit means Brexit" gets you. The nutters lapped that up because it gave them an excuse not to think. Who cares what type of trade deal we want or are likely to get, Brexit means Brexit, right? And if that doesn't work shout "Just get on with it" a few times.


The only positive is that the EU do want us to stay so they would be willing to extend/defer the Article 50 leaving date. Everything we know about what the EU wants, what they've said and what their likely neogitation strategy to be is keeping the UK practically in the EU. Because there will be an economic impact on them too if we crash out. The idea they'll get to March 29th and decide they'd happily take that hit because they're 'bored' of the process is every bit as ridiculous as the analysis that the hardline Brexit nutcases are pumping out.
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The EU consider that the UK are leaving next March and are working in that direction only. The date will not be prolonged because the EU may take a hit. This is the biggest problem in the UK. They still think the EU will beg the UK to stay. People need to wake up quickly.
 
One event I've noted that I think has been given less significance than it deserves is May's meeting with Merkel shortly before she revealed her plans at Chequers. I suspect she must have received some positive encouragement from Merkel then for her to carry on. I'm not suggesting this amounts to actual agreement, or that Merkel and the EU won't want shedloads of alterations and concessions to it, perhaps unacceptably so, but I do think it hints that a deal may be possible, which I thought not before. The subsequent government resignations back this up as well, I don't think Boris and the others would have been so quick to go if they thought her plans were definitely doomed from the start.

Whether she can carry parliament or stay as leader is a whole different matter though. The Tory brexiteers have always struck me as a particularly self-serving bunch, but the way they are now dripping out resignations indicates they may actually have some degree of organisation at last, surprising to me at any rate.
 
711 said:
One event I've noted that I think has been given less significance than it deserves is May's meeting with Merkel shortly before she revealed her plans at Chequers. I suspect she must have received some positive encouragement from Merkel then for her to carry on. I'm not suggesting this amounts to actual agreement, or that Merkel and the EU won't want shedloads of alterations and concessions to it, perhaps unacceptably so, but I do think it hints that a deal may be possible, which I thought not before. The subsequent government resignations back this up as well, I don't think Boris and the others would have been so quick to go if they thought her plans were definitely doomed from the start.

Whether she can carry parliament or stay as leader is a whole different matter though. The Tory brexiteers have always struck me as a particularly self-serving bunch, but the way they are now dripping out resignations indicates they may actually have some degree of organisation at last, surprising to me at any rate.
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I think Merkel will push hard for any deal that allows the economies to continue to be interwoven and at the same time respects the EU's positions (To an extent that is acceptable). But Merkel still isn't the EU, it will need agreement from the other 26 too and Merkel won't burn any political capital trying to convince them (there's too many other problems).

The real problem is that when the current situation is changed to whatever it is in the future there will be countries that benefit more from the new situation than others (or experience less pain), how do you convince the ones getting the shorter stick to agree? (Usually you'd give them something else in exchange, but there's 28 parties to this, and no one even knows which stick they're getting)
 
Abizzz said:
I think Merkel will push hard for any deal that allows the economies to continue to be interwoven and at the same time respects the EU's positions (To an extent that is acceptable). But Merkel still isn't the EU, it will need agreement from the other 26 too and Merkel won't burn any political capital trying to convince them (there's too many other problems).

The real problem is that when the current situation is changed to whatever it is in the future there will be countries that benefit more from the new situation than others (or experience less pain), how do you convince the ones getting the shorter stick to agree? (Usually you'd give them something else in exchange, but there's 28 parties to this, and no one even knows which stick they're getting)
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Agree with all that, I was just trying to say that Merkel not telling May to feck off with her plan might make it more of a possibility than I thought it might be. I'm not one on here that claims certain knowledge of the future, and if I see new information I'll try and interpret it as best I can.
 
711 said:
Agree with all that, I was just trying to say that Merkel not telling May to feck off with her plan might make it more of a possibility than I thought it might be. I'm not one on here that claims certain knowledge of the future, and if I see new information I'll try and interpret it as best I can.
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The best outcome for everyone is that the UK stay in the EU (even though the Brexiters don't realise it).
Merkel is encouraged that the UK have relented on some points and that maybe May will relent on much much more.

But why do people think that the EU are going to change the rules to suit the UK?
 
"No second referendum under any circumstances.."

like there would be "no snap election?

We can only hope.
 
711 said:
Agree with all that, I was just trying to say that Merkel not telling May to feck off with her plan might make it more of a possibility than I thought it might be. I'm not one on here that claims certain knowledge of the future, and if I see new information I'll try and interpret it as best I can.
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Sorry, I didn't mean to attack you or your post, was meant as a royal you.

Agree that the two meeting just before May announced her plan indicates some level of approval from Merkel.
 
muller said:
"No second referendum under any circumstances.."

like there would be "no snap election?

We can only hope.
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I didn't think there would be a second referendum, but I'm having second thoughts on that as well now. After all, referenda do seem to be the Tories go to solution for solving their own internal splits, and these are obviously getting worse rather than better. For a second referendum to work though I think it would have to be part of the negotiations with the EU in the first place, in that they knew there would be one at the end of negotiations. The idea at one time seemed to be that a second referendum would force the EU to offer better terms, which always seemed bollocks to me.

And then we have Labour. I've seen several Labour MPs asked whether they want a second referendum and the answers are pitiful .. er, well, we haven't er called for one, well we're not ruling one out, but er.
 
Oscie said:
The issue is people thinking leave means one thing. It's why we still get sub-intellect radio hosts and newspaper columnists yelling "just get on with it". The sad truth is the people championing Brexit and perhaps many of the people who voted for it, are too thick to actually know what it is. It's never been as simple as deciding to walk out of a room yet whenever anyone who supports Brexit speaks they refer to it in terms as if they genuinely think it's as straight forward as leaving a room, and that's gone from being comical at the beginning, annoying in the middle and is now bloody dangerous as we approach the end.

This is what "Brexit means Brexit" gets you. The nutters lapped that up because it gave them an excuse not to think. Who cares what type of trade deal we want or are likely to get, Brexit means Brexit, right? And if that doesn't work shout "Just get on with it" a few times.


The only positive is that the EU do want us to stay so they would be willing to extend/defer the Article 50 leaving date. Everything we know about what the EU wants, what they've said and what their likely neogitation strategy to be is keeping the UK practically in the EU. Because there will be an economic impact on them too if we crash out. The idea they'll get to March 29th and decide they'd happily take that hit because they're 'bored' of the process is every bit as ridiculous as the analysis that the hardline Brexit nutcases are pumping out.
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Yep. That's what I think but say it and you'll get a barrage of abuse. I watched every single moment that I could of the referendum campaign and I am telling you 80% of what is now known about it was ever mentioned. So how it can have been an 'informed' vote I do not know.

Mostly a protest vote in my opinion. Give the government a bloody nose - but they have torn their own off as a result. Fecking madness!

I would also wager that vey few people who work in car, aerospace or large scale manufacturing voted leave.

Pensioners, self-employed, retail etc. where the (mistaken) view would be that leaving won't make any difference to their lives.

Plus disgruntled (verging on racist) people who'd rather see their high street boarded up than tolerate a Polish supermarket opening.

Taking our jobs indeed! I hope that all those people will flock to the fields later this year and make sure all our fruit and veg doesn't rot on the vine or in the ground.


On the Today programme Sir Bernard Jenkin reckons that industry's concerns are merely them trying to protect bottom lines. If they don't create a profit how are they going to employ people?

Totally staggering!

I have always been conservative in my views and always thought that the Tories were the party of business. But this and other comments about business from the likes of Bojo are appalling as far as I'm concerned.

When it all goes to rat shit you won't find a single person who'll admit to voting leave.
 
May has accepted all of Mogg's amendments. So strong and stable.
The only thing I can see stopping a no deal brexit is another referendum.
Pretty clear that party can't negotiate a deal.
 
Adisa said:
May has accepted all of Mogg's amendments. So strong and stable.
The only thing I can see stopping a no deal brexit is another referendum.
Pretty clear that party can't negotiate a deal.
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Yeah the EU will never accept it so there are now only two options available - referendum or no deal. Since in my view no deal will never make it past Parliament then its looking like we get another referendum and/or general election
 
Adisa said:
May has accepted all of Mogg's amendments. So strong and stable.
The only thing I can see stopping a no deal brexit is another referendum.
Pretty clear that party can't negotiate a deal.
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They will never agree anything amongst themselves, let alone with the EU.
Summer recess in 4 days, back in September, another month of squabbling and it'll be too late.
 
Feels like things will inevitably come to a head soon. I know it's been the done thing to say May's not got long left but genuinely think she might not have long left at this point.
 
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