Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think that's likely yeah. In fact it's hastened the brake up of the UK tbh as Scotland didn't vote for this either and I suspect all this will be a boon to nationalists throughout the country.
You think? Oh damned white text. I bit
The Brightonian independence movement is certainly growing.
You jest but this shit is very serious. People will possibly be killed as a result of all this.
I don't jest.
Unilaterally drop all import tariffs.
It doesn't look like anything to me. Today most people would react like Bernard encountering something he couldn't comprehend. But like Bernard, we need to quickly learn what it means, and more importantly, what happens next.
There exists a fanatical section of the right. Not bad, but fanatical nonetheless. They believe that the way the world conducts free trade is wrong. They believe that there exists a way to move the poorest of this world out of poverty, whilst making the richest even richer. It's a simple idea, tried in only a few places, on only a few occasions, but theoretically, they say, the idea is economically sound. And the idea, is this.
Don't negotiate free trade deals at all. Instead, drop all import tariffs completely. And let the rest of the world do what they may.
That benefits those working in a sweatshop in India as, suddenly, there is less tax on the shirts they make. Maybe they'll make a few extra pence per day on their toils. It benefits those working in a Chinese steel foundry as, suddenly, their steel is undercutting that made in the UK. It benefits the service sectors of the UK economy as, suddenly, goods are flooding the UK market made cheaply from around the world. On the other hand, it's catastrophic for the UK manufacturing sector as there is little advantage (other than the cheaper price of steel) to manufacturing goods in the UK, where there is no free trade agreement with the rest of the West (and therefore tariffs on exports), compared to manufacturing goods in other countries that do. Still, the fanatics say, economically it's theoretically advantageous to just unilaterally cut import tariffs altogether, much in the same way that lowering tax is good for the economy.
Jacon Rees Mogg and Dan Hannan are it's fiercest proponents, and "Global Britain" could be thought of as a right-wing code for this idea. Boris, whilst not a Unilateral-drop-tariffist isn't adverse to big ideas. Especially big ideas that can propel his career forward. Especially fantastical big ideas with little chance of going ahead that can propel his career forward quickly, and he can bin at a later date.
There is one major problem for the Unilaterists, however. Any sort of customs deal with the EU makes it impossible for the Unilateral tariff drop to take place. The UK can't accept anything and everything into her borders for free, if shes agreed to a common rule-book of goods with the EU. (Think U.S eggs). And the UK can't accept cheap Chinese steel if she has an open border with Ireland.
For this no-tariff dream to continue, they need to crush soft brexit, because a soft brexit is the end to their dream. That is why they sometimes say things like "it would be better to stay in the EU that have this deal" because within the EU, there is a chance to convince the EU of moving down this path, but with soft brexit, we are a rule taker, and cannot take the path at all.
The Unilaterists want to perform a giant experiment with the UK economy, but to do that they have to first perform an even bigger experiment with the UK economy. They need to crash us out of the EU with no customs union and preferably no trade deal, and then from there, can argue the only solution left is the radical one.
If they can't do that, a trade deal with the EU isn't the end of the dream, but a customs agreement, is.
They are fanatics. Fantasists. Over-educated theorists with no working class roots.
They also might be right. But it's a big gamble to find out.
Edit - Spelling and Grammar. It's late.
It doesn't look like anything to me. Today most people would react like Bernard encountering something he couldn't comprehend. But like Bernard, we need to quickly learn what it means, and more importantly, what happens next.
There exists a fanatical section of the right. Not bad, but fanatical nonetheless. They believe that the way the world conducts free trade is wrong. They believe that there exists a way to move the poorest of this world out of poverty, whilst making the richest even richer. It's a simple idea, tried in only a few places, on only a few occasions, but theoretically, they say, the idea is economically sound. And the idea, is this.
Don't negotiate free trade deals at all. Instead, drop all import tariffs completely. And let the rest of the world do what they may.
That benefits those working in a sweatshop in India as, suddenly, there is less tax on the shirts they make. Maybe they'll make a few extra pence per day on their toils. It benefits those working in a Chinese steel foundry as, suddenly, their steel is undercutting that made in the UK. It benefits the service sectors of the UK economy as, suddenly, goods are flooding the UK market made cheaply from around the world. On the other hand, it's catastrophic for the UK manufacturing sector as there is little advantage (other than the cheaper price of steel) to manufacturing goods in the UK, where there is no free trade agreement with the rest of the West (and therefore tariffs on exports), compared to manufacturing goods in other countries that do. Still, the fanatics say, economically it's theoretically advantageous to just unilaterally cut import tariffs altogether, much in the same way that lowering tax is good for the economy.
Jacon Rees Mogg and Dan Hannan are it's fiercest proponents, and "Global Britain" could be thought of as a right-wing code for this idea. Boris, whilst not a Unilateral-drop-tariffist isn't adverse to big ideas. Especially big ideas that can propel his career forward. Especially fantastical big ideas with little chance of going ahead that can propel his career forward quickly, and he can bin at a later date.
There is one major problem for the Unilaterists, however. Any sort of customs deal with the EU makes it impossible for the Unilateral tariff drop to take place. The UK can't accept anything and everything into her borders for free, if shes agreed to a common rule-book of goods with the EU. (Think U.S eggs). And the UK can't accept cheap Chinese steel if she has an open border with Ireland.
For this no-tariff dream to continue, they need to crush soft brexit, because a soft brexit is the end to their dream. That is why they sometimes say things like "it would be better to stay in the EU that have this deal" because within the EU, there is a chance to convince the EU of moving down this path, but with soft brexit, we are a rule taker, and cannot take the path at all.
The Unilaterists want to perform a giant experiment with the UK economy, but to do that they have to first perform an even bigger experiment with the UK economy. They need to crash us out of the EU with no customs union and preferably no trade deal, and then from there, can argue the only solution left is the radical one.
If they can't do that, a trade deal with the EU isn't the end of the dream, but a customs agreement, is.
They are fanatics. Fantasists. Over-educated theorists with no working class roots.
They also might be right. But it's a big gamble to find out.
Edit - Spelling and Grammar. It's late.
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Vince and Farron are idiots. In any case, today was a waste of time.
Yep but theres a lot of grief to be had before that. Personally I am concerned for my US born wife and son,
both have Irish passports but we all live in the North. Im waiting to see if this will be affected.
It was a jest. A throwback to the Ibrahimovic ACL injury.
What happens if it was a tie? Speaker?
Kate Hoey and co chatting with ERG whip. Where did Labour find her?
It's a good job the idea of getting rid of Labour MPs who you disagree with hasn't been labelled Stalinist or the work of cult members for the last couple of years. 
Agree on both counts the lack of fecks given by the British Government about NI is depressing.
The DUP are a disgrace they know a hard border is bad for NI but i think secretly (or maybe not so secretly) they all want it. They must think it makes the possibility of a United Ireland less likely.
Yeah it won't look clever will it? Basically showing the world they will break deals if it suits them. Not to mention potentially destabilizing an area enjoying it's longest run of relative peace for decades.
Tim Farron was giving a talk in Dorset about his invisible friend and the death of liberalism 
Hm, shit's really hitting the fan. And while I am sure the Brexiters think they have played a blinder (and it might turn out they have), this event could also become a rallying cry for remain.
We might end up having to make the same choice again (instead of deciding on how we leave) which might mean a reversal of the original outcome. It would be ironic if the moronic and selfish pricks that started this mess end up destroying their pet project due to their fanaticism, arrogance and most of all unwillingness to compromise.
We might end up having to make the same choice again (instead of deciding on how we leave) which might mean a reversal of the original outcome. It would be ironic if the moronic and selfish pricks that started this mess end up destroying their pet project due to their fanaticism, arrogance and most of all unwillingness to compromise.
This is what we have to put up with in the north. This man is happy his party is costing NI money and jobs so they can have a hard border again. @balaks
It would give me enormous pleasure to punch that man repeatedly. On your point about what the DUP think - they simply do not believe there will ever be a united Ireland, they have said as much so I don't think they are giving it a second thought. They believe that if NI deviates in any way from the rest of the UK in BREXIT terms that this will weaken the union. Of course they are more than happy for NI to not follow the rest of the UK on social matters that they believe in such as equal marriage, etc. It's infuriating.
Usual suspects on social media have been attacking those who dared to agree with Anna Soubury's speech yesterday more vociferously and with more passion than they've ever employed whilst opposing the government's actual Brexit plans themselves.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0717/979174-eu_japan/
But..but.. I thought the UK were the ones who were going to sign all these big trade deals when they left?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0717/979174-eu_japan/
But..but.. I thought the UK were the ones who were going to sign all these big trade deals when they left?
That’s mainly satisfying as it gives two fingers to Trump but has to be a kick in the balls for team Brexit too. Who’d have thought that it’s easier to make trade deals when you represent a market of nearly a billion people?
Jesus, has anyone even tried tracking the Caf name changes for this thread … let alone the actual political policy
isn't that Skinner as well?
That is indeed The Beast of Bolsover.
1 step forwards and 2 steps back.
I doubt if this electoral fraud story is going to end up being that important. It's difficult when both front benches seem intent on at worst ignoring it and at best not really taking that much of an interest in it. Back-bench Labour and Tory MPs will push it, journalists will cover it, campaigners will seek to draw attention to it, but aside from a few peripheral figures possibly being charged it suits neither party leader's interest to push the importance of the story. So it'll be one of those side issue things that in the coming months only the geeks who pay attention to these things will even be aware of.
That's a fair bit of a round up now Pogue
That's a fair bit of a round up now Pogue
Oops. Think I was accidentally going with the US version of a billion. Which is ironic.
EDIT: actually, according to wiki, 1000 million is now the universal term for a billion. So I stand by my comment!
Or a prediction?That's a fair bit of a round up now Pogue
Ah here. I was going with the population of Europe (750m) not the EU (500m) so have to retract my statement again
How’s about I edit my original post from “nearly a billion” to “half a billion”, we all delete the subsequent posts and pretend this unfortunate incident never happened?!
I voted for Blair. It was a lesser of 2 evils thing. I’d have voted Hillary if I lived in America.
Lesser of 2 evils is such a no brainer. Blows my mind the way Trump got into power because so many Americans were too stubborn/stupid to follow this basic principle.
One of the biggest advantages the right has electorally is that the left seem eminently more comfortable with right-wing government than they do imperfect left-wing government. Think that holds true here too.