You are right but the problem is that the EU is moving toward more integration and the longer you stay the more difficult it's going to leave. There is a real choice to make, it's not about being in the EU because you are worried about the US, you need to be in it for it otherwise the current doubts will come back, it can't be a forced affiliation or feel like it.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You are right but the problem is that the EU is moving toward more integration and the longer you stay the more difficult it's going to leave. There is a real choice to make, it's not about being in the EU because you are worried about the US, you need to be in it for it otherwise the current doubts will come back, it can't be a forced affiliation or feel like it.
I know, there is no easy answer to any of this.
Past Labour and Tory governments have blamed almost every domestic policy failure on the EU.
Our leaders really don't have vision. What did they think was going to happen? Cameron spent the majority of his career bashing the EU, then expected people to believe a few months that of campaign.
Our leaders really don't have vision. What did they think was going to happen? Cameron spent the majority of his career bashing the EU, then expected people to believe a few months that of campaign.
Did you see the tailbacks in Kent the other day to Dover? Not related to Brexit... People acting like there is going to be a complete shutdown in infrastructure, like as if the Channel tunnel is just going to shut down and nothing will get through, or all the ships travelling the globe will just stop and not enter UK ports. It's getting beyond ridiculous.
Easy, people exporting to the UK, create a GL account, record the WTO tariff, pay at the end of the year. Business continues as usual. Not sure what field you work in mate but accountants record businesss taxes and pay them at the end of the month or year all the time. Its called a liability account on a general ledger.
Again, nothing of this has anything to do with moving goods across borders with additional tasks/paperwork that didn’t previously exist. Which will be the issue here.
You really might want to educate yourself about such matters, like the customs clearance capacities of the Eurotunnel, for example. You'd be surprised...
There are none, but shhh, don't tell anyone, k?
There won't be a complete breakdown but its blatantly obvious there are going to be enormous delays. A huge percentage of the supply chain for an enormous population is going to suddenly be subject to checks and beaurocracy which wasn't there before.
You've said yourself that there were tailbacks the other day under the very relaxed status quo. Add those to the litany of checks that are coming and what are you left with?
Perfectly sane people who raised doubts about how the brexit negotiations we're going to play out spent months being called scare mongerers and worse. This feels the same - people need to stop playing silly politics and start preparing for the worst. Then if it's an overreaction great, and if it's anywhere in between you'll be prepared.
Yes, but if you take what the Irish government are doing, hiring 1000 additional poeple for the customs department to deal with the extra load, thats just what is going to have to happen. It's not that difficult. All shipping companies work off itineries and know what they are hauling before it is picked up. Hundreds of countries send goods all around the world daily without an FTA with the EU and it doesn't affect trade.
Currenty it takes an average of 2 minutes for a truck to pass customs with our frictionless borders. Studies show that even another 2 minutes delay to that process would result in 30 mile tailbacks. What do you think it going to happen if suddenly those goods start having to be manually inspected?
It's not about the application of tariffs themselves and sorting out the related paperwork...I used to live by the Belorussian border (essentially that's the status of the country UK is gonna take after leaving with no deal) and just checking/inspecting one Truck takes around 1.5-2 hours (it can't be done any quicker no matter the amount of people, while right now full process takes only 2 minutes in the case of UK) - I mean you have to be pretty stupid to not understand the enormous implications.
What @Kentonio said...
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but hundred of countries sending goods all around the world would mean hundreds of entry/exit points and most trading blocks trade mainly within their trading block.
I did for 30 years. This is not the same thing at all. You are talking about long haul shipments which are not so time sensitive.
No port is equipped to cope with such traffic that needs to be rapidly dealt with and cleared through.
Shipping a container from Australia to the UK that could take 10 weeks if you're lucky or 4 months if you're not is not the same as having urgent items in a truck on a ferry or by Eurotunnel that needs to be at the destination within hours or days. The documentation has to be ready as well. If you're shipping the container from Australia you have all the time in the world to have the documentation ready and processed.
As far as I could see there was no widespread anti-EU sentiment before the referendum. This was entirely whipped up by the leavers. You had the eurosceptics in parliament, who have been there forever and a day, then maybe a few people who took the view that all these Polish people were taking our jobs. That's it. I doubt hardly anyone knew what we pay into the EU, or what we get back, or how it is used. I can't find a single person who can tell me which part of EU legislation has had any major impact on their lives.
I run an engineering Company. As part of the BSI accreditation I am supposed to assess the impact this business has on the residential neighbours who are adjacent to the factory. In 26 years of the Company being here we have never received a single complaint or letter or any word whatsoever that we are having any negative impact on them. However, if I created a questionnaire and sent it to every household in our immediate vicinity I bet there would be some who would come up with all manner of issues. Why? Because you asked the bloody question and people feel obliged to reply. Their replies may not have anything whatsoever to do with the question asked. They will often reflect general disgruntlement. If they then got some no-win-no-fee legal beagle to front up their concerns then 26 years of peace could turn into a real headache for the business.
This, I believe, is what happened in the referendum.
Once leave won anyone who voted that way were forced, when questioned, to come up with reasons why - and suddenly they became experts on EU legislation and how we were being run by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.
Concerns that for 42 years hardly featured in people's every-day gripes - outside of some right-wing groups, the media and Parliament.
People did have genuine concerns about the level of net migration but I would not have said that those concerns were anywhere near the level of 'lets leave the EU to solve them'
Farage and Ukip were responsible for whipping that sentiment up in that regard. Using a load of over-simplistic populist arguments that smacked of the Nazi's blaming the Jews for all the ills that their country faced in the 20's and 30's
Just like in Germany back then, it gained support here from people who were unhappy with successive governments failing to address their issues. Scapegoats were needed and as usual, found.
That said I truly believe that most people in the UK like Europe. Tens of thousands work in industries that export product there. Most realise that food prices have been so low purely because of the efficiencies that trading with the EU brings. They go there in their millions every year for holidays. They all benefit from frictionless travel, reciprocal health agreements and free roaming mobile phone use.
All of this is now under threat.
I am hoping that people are now seeing the light and maybe something will change.
Probably banging on the gates within 2 or 3 weeks, or months at most.
How will Brexit affect me looking for work in England on my Portuguese passport?
@Honest John Thanks for your answer, though I feel that you are underestimating the sovereignty issues, impression of distance from the EU or anti democratic image that has been spread by politicians and medias. There is also the Us vs them where them are in particular Germany and France, people seem to forget that until not so long ago the idea that Merkel was ruling the EU was still prevalent in the press, among politicians and on message boards, this is a big problem. Now I totally agree on the manipulation part and the idea that people where mainly unhappy with the situation in general, the problem is that the anti-EU side is important and influential.
Those tailbacks were the result of the start of new border checks … directly relating to BREXIT.
I should know, I was caught up in them.
This is what is still in front of me 3 hours after being one hour early for my crossing last Wednesday evening (the photo is taken at midnight and there were mothers with young children in the cars adjacent to me).
I finally got on a ferry 5 hours later than the one I booked. Got held up in the morning traffic across Europe and missed the start of the working day back in Germany.
Those tailbacks were the result of the start of new border checks … directly relating to BREXIT.
I should know, I was caught up in them.
This is what is still in front of me 3 hours after being one hour early for my crossing last Wednesday evening (the photo is taken at midnight and there were mothers with young children in the cars adjacent to me).
I finally got on a ferry 5 hours later than the one I booked. Got held up in the morning traffic across Europe and missed the start of the working day back in Germany.
You were in a truck or on the car?
Weird reply. But … thanks, er, for your concern, I suppose?
What? Now I know for certain that you are just after an argument.You were in a truck or on the car?
well feck off somewhere else you troll … you will not get one from me.
I was stood behind my car while getting water out of my boot to give to the family next to me if you must know!
You can even see my drivers side door (German) is open.
Calm down, there is no argument. It's just a great angle.
I can see the government pushing through a halfway house brexit that satisfies nobody, despite a shift in voter sentiment.
Dude, lighten up. You’re seeing insults in posts that aren’t there. “Yikes” was just my way of saying “oh dear, that must have been grim”
This whole misreading the tone of posts thing goes back to your first response to @JPRouve a page or two back. Dunno if you’re having a bad day or something but coming across bizarrely tetchy.
I know, how good am i?
Yes I agree with most of that. I wasn't entirely happy with the EU - many were not. However, it was for most of the general population, an annoyance rather than being the strength breadth of resentment now depicted.
I would have rather we stayed in and tried to reform. I believe that across the EU there was enough discontentment to have brought about change over time.
Cameron tried to get concessions. He managed to get some but they were largely seen as being not nearly enough. Personally I don't think they were given a chance to see if they would have worked.
The referendum result has scared the shit out of the EU and they are clearly concerned that others will follow suit if the UK is seen to benefit from it's decision.
Ironically, if by some miracle, we reversed the decision and stayed in, then the scare that this debacle has created may turn out to be enough to bring about the kind of reform that many people wanted.
Thinking about it, if we genuinely do look like heading for a crash out, people are going to be stocking up food like it was the last shopping day before Christmas. That’s going to make the resupply problem even more difficult. 
He's not far wrong, tbf.
'The ports will work fine, there won't be any hold ups...'
Project Fear strike again
At what point will Brexiteers become Brexit-tears?
At what point will Brexiteers become Brexit-tears?
He managed to get them on top of those that Mrs. "I want my money back" already squeezed out of the remaining member states. The UK has enjoyed far more privileges than any other EU member.
And yet, you're right, that was largely seen as not nearly being enough. And for that reason, many people on the continent are fecking glad to see your country finally gone.
The Sky long read is depressing as hell.
https://news.sky.com/story/long-read-governments-no-deal-brexit-plans-lost-on-m20-motorway-11454929
https://news.sky.com/story/long-read-governments-no-deal-brexit-plans-lost-on-m20-motorway-11454929
Man, that is just insane.
You have to wonder when these guys went "let's make a 13 mile long lorry park" did they think "hmm, maybe Brexit isn't a great idea after all?"
What?!!!
Rubbish I was there two weeks ago and sailed through both ways with no hold-ups at all - what new border checks - it's just volume of traffic because of the holidays.
The UK haven't left yet - My favourite phrase. Wait till next year!!
Project Fear strike again
At what point will Brexiteers become Brexit-tears?
There'll be no tears. I'm surrounded by Brexiteers. We could be cannibalising each other in the streets and they'd still be going on about what a smart move Brexit was. Out means out and nodding their heads sagely is the reaction of the guys I work with to any potential brexit problem bought up.
Chill bro
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Not even a good acronym
Where's the 'a' gone from the acronym?