You surely know the difference between a hard and soft border?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You surely know the difference between a hard and soft border?
Technically, here we are talking about controlled vs open borders, both can be soft.
Okay, assume we get a no-deal brexit. And there is no amendment of GFA. And there is still no border and everyone keeps going like today. No enforced border, no hard border. In practice, what exactly will be the problem?
Surely ”no deal” goes directly to a hard border rather than controlled.
Yeah you can’t do that and that you think you can really means that you need to read up on this starting from the very beginning.
A mountain of issues with customs, tariffs and freedom of movement. Honestly, what's the point of asking questions like this and not going off and actually reading even one of the thousands of articles on this from the past two years?
It'd be like me saying, "Hey, the 2nd Amendment sounds dumb to me, just change it".
But why??? Can someone give me a specific example?
Movement of goods and services between eu and non-eu countries.
And people, and a shit load of other issues.
Give an example! If it is so difficult for all of you to give ONE example, then actually nobody understands what the problem is.
Because you can’t stop freedom of movement and goods to/from the UK without a fecking border man.
I'm simplifying as you'd hope the common travel area would still stand. But yes, it is a massive issue when it comes to non irish/uk citizens.
Like what? You will buy a car in Ireland and go sell it in NI?
"The Electoral College is kinda stupid, you should change it. It's easy to change, right?"
In a no deal situation, nothing still stands though.
Sorry now, but you're in a thread where people have spent months discussing at length exactly what you want. Why should they distill it for you when you can simply use the Back button to go through the thread and see for yourself.
Not to mention that there are literally hundreds of articles a week in every UK and Irish news outlet explaining what you want to know.
My lord you really don’t understand this at all do you?
For example do you plan to stop freedom of movement from/to the UK from the EU without a border?
He already has given you several examples. What on earth are you blethering on about?
If people have been discussing it for months and they cant even give a simple practical example of the problem, then...
Answer teh fecking question above man.
What stops a Northern Irish company buying tariff free EU cars & selling them to customers Great Britain? Or vice versa.
And they did. I literally gave you a link to an article about it. As did @Classical Mechanic . Why are you ignoring the concrete examples?
Maybe we are becoming America... 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...to-embarrass-may-over-high-powered-rifles-ban
Tory rightwingers seek to embarrass May over high-powered rifles ban
ERG members aim to stymie .50-calibre weapons ban to show strength before vote on Brexit deal
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...to-embarrass-may-over-high-powered-rifles-ban
Tory rightwingers seek to embarrass May over high-powered rifles ban
ERG members aim to stymie .50-calibre weapons ban to show strength before vote on Brexit deal
whats the point of any borders then, lets tear them all down. Free movement of people and goods everywhere. Revolution!!
CTA was pre EU. Still doesn't prevent a border, but allows travel without visa etc. Hopefully.
No, it goes to controlled with application of custom and homeland laws regarding foreign capitals, goods, people and companies. The best example is the paper that was published by the french senate this week, there is nothing new, just the simple reminding that without deals UK citizens, capitals, goods and companies become foreign and are under legislation regarding foreigners. For individuals the difference is massive but for countries and from a legal standpoint it's a simple translation from one column to the other.
Ok here is just one of hundreds of potential problems - lets say the UK decides post brexit to implement a points system for immigration and put strict controls on the movement of people from the EU into the country. Now you have thousands of Europeans coming over to Ireland, walking straight over the border into NI and as a result into the UK.
How do you ensure that the people coming in are the people the UK have said should come and how do you stop those who the UK do not want? You put checks in right? You perhaps want to put something in place at the border between ROI and NI that would stop people from entering until they have proven they are who they say they are and that the UK has determined they are legally allowed to enter.
Guess what, thats now checks at the border and impacts the free movement of people between ROI and NI, causes massive delays at the border (which until then had been a border in name only).
Now imagine this but with goods, etc. All of these are just practical issues that ignore the massive political and social impact this would have.
Last edited:
Its funny because a no deal actually makes my life much easier from a work standpoint, making VAT software UK just becomes non-EU and everything is simple
A complex deal and feck knows what we need to do.Pretty sure that’s what is referred to as a hard border on the NI / ROI issue isn’t it JP?
I mean, it’s not North Korea / South Korea hard with a DMZ but anything other than the current soft border they have today is considered hard and will break the GFA.
CTA doesn’t exist any longer though and can’t if one entity is part of the EU and the other isn’t.
I might be missing something here but... The CTA does exist, unless you mean it won't exist post Brexit?
How about tell sinn Fein if they come to Westminster and vote through the brexit deal we will give Northern Ireland back
... No boarder... And not our problem anymore?
Probably not practical and could end in violent clashes... But meh that's the EU's problem then
... No boarder... And not our problem anymore?
Probably not practical and could end in violent clashes... But meh that's the EU's problem then
Maybe we are becoming America...
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...to-embarrass-may-over-high-powered-rifles-ban
Tory rightwingers seek to embarrass May over high-powered rifles ban
ERG members aim to stymie .50-calibre weapons ban to show strength before vote on Brexit deal
Should be a big outcry to destroy the MPs who do this. There won't be because it seems like they can get away with anything right now.
That's why I said "technically" in order to avoid confusion and make it clear that it's a legal border first. There are three types of borders, open, regulated(controlled) and closed.
Your location says you're from California, right?
Can you give me an example as to why there has to be a border between CA and Mexico?
Its funny because a no deal actually makes my life much easier from a work standpoint, making VAT software UK just becomes non-EU and everything is simple
Yeah, no deal makes things very easy from a legal standpoint.
I mean it doesn’t exist in it’s original sense (pre-EU) and won’t exist in a no deal post Brexit.
As an Irish man living in London, I have it on good authority that the CTA remains regardless of any outcome.
Something extremely important seems to have escaped a lot of people.
Although the Irish border is the biggest stumbling block because you can't have Brexit and maintain the GFA, putting Ireland aside for a moment, if the UK leaves the CU they are in deep trouble.
No FTA is going to resolve that problem either, and I beg people not to say 'Norway'
Although the Irish border is the biggest stumbling block because you can't have Brexit and maintain the GFA, putting Ireland aside for a moment, if the UK leaves the CU they are in deep trouble.
No FTA is going to resolve that problem either, and I beg people not to say 'Norway'
"The CTA is a long-standing arrangement between the UK, the Crown Dependencies (Jersey; Guernsey; Isle of Man) and Ireland. It has its origins in the 1920s and ensures that British and Irish citizens can move freely between and reside in these islands. The CTA is not reliant on membership of the EU, formed before either the UK or Ireland were members, but based on domestic legislation and bilateral agreements."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...and-irish-citizens-if-there-is-no-brexit-deal
Ok, that’s interesting to know. I assumed like everything else it falls with the rest of the house of cards.
So basically UK & Irish people will be able to continue to travel & reside in these lands, however in a no deal Brexit they will have to go through border/customs checks? That right @Zebs?
Spot on.
And the irony of all of this is that Brexit was about "controlling the borders" allegedly. So from that point of view you would have thought the UK would WANT a border in place between NI and the ROI. Im sure people like Farage and Johnson deep down wouldnt give two shits if there is a border put up. No odds to them living in England.
But it is almost as though post referendum someone pulled out the GFA and said "Oh, hang on a sec....we might have a problem here".
A complete cluster feck that was never thought through properly from the start.