It won't be like turning a switch but a hard border and the collapse of the GFA could lead there.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It won't be like turning a switch but a hard border and the collapse of the GFA could lead there.
Look, as I said before, you can voluntarily give up certain sovereign rights - and then you can take them back. We still maintained the right to leave, but not others - it's not a binary thing. And you're ignoring political realities: in any political system, no one party controls the legislation that comes out. What you're saying is like telling anti-war protesters that the Iraq war was 'their war' because they are citizens of the UK.
Well I used that comparison because it works. I disagree on the outcomes though.
I wonder why anyone would like to reduce the influence of the EU and allow this shower of shit, that we call politicians, have even more decision making power? I wouldn't let most of them park my car.
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So by that logic you'd like to see smaller organisation governing smaller regions within Britain itself? Or is one government governing 66 million people in 4 different countries ok by you? Would the break up of the United Kingdom into 4 (probably 3) separate countries not be a price worth paying for England to be able to govern itself with your idea of sovereignty?
It's interesting to me that back when Britain was "Great", they didn't appear to share your inclination towards sovereignty and smaller government. Instead they seemed very determined to set sail and impose their law and government on as many countries as they could get their hands on.
As such, they created complicated situations such that of Northern Ireland. Now, because 52% of Britain have decided they no longer wish to be a part of the union they willingly and knowingly signed up to of their own free will, an Island that had such complication forced upon it by the historic actions of your nation should be faced with either violent or economic uncertainty? Is that a just and fair sacrifice to expect a neighbour to bear, just because you have changed your mind?
It's this idea that Europe have wronged Britain by somehow hoodwinking them into willingly joining the EU while at the same time, Britain should be completely abdicated of all responsibility for their former actions that I struggle with the most. It's hard to believe anyone can be so self-righteously selfish with a straight face.
Speaking of problems you never thought you'd have
http://www.donegaldaily.com/2018/09...r-with-plans-for-two-time-zones-after-brexit/
http://www.donegaldaily.com/2018/09...r-with-plans-for-two-time-zones-after-brexit/
As regards the post-transition deal, I heard Van Rompuy make an interesting observation today - trade treaty negotiations always involve convergence - reducing barriers/tariffs etc. The UK/EU negotiation, on the other hand, starts from a position of total convergence and will end up settling on a point of increased divergence. There are virtually no precedents, at least among advanced economies.
* It is their MO
** the they did force them to shoot themselves in both feet repeatedly
The problem is they believe hats it's a dead man's trigger.
All they worry about is their personal gains.
Can't remember who said it on here, but Brexiters don't care.... They just want what they want.
What I'm saying is like saying that being in a coalition doesn't mean that the Iraq war wasn't the UK's war.
I've said this from the start... It's one of the reasons trade deals are typically collaberative as you are coming together whilst this will be more combative as your moving apart... I deal with and negotiate with governments as part of my job... So logically you would think I might have some idea about this .... As such my thoughts were Instantly cast as part of projet fear...
I know it's wrong but it's going to be hard to feel sympathy for those turkeys who voted for Xmas when economic realities hit home
The UK does have increasingly devolved power. Wales, Scotland and NI have their own governments and manage their own health services etc. The regions have more devolved power than ever with a mayoral system being implemented recently. Regions are campaigning for more power. Manchester wants complete autonomy over transport, for example.
Almost like the devolved power the UK had within the EU then. Or will Manchester not have to answer to the Department for Transport in any way?
You just don’t believe enough. We survived WWII etc...
On a more serious note, the problem is the turkeys take everyone else with them (certainly the vast majority of those who have to deal with the sharp end of these issues).
Davis and Paterson, the latest comedy duo.
I think this debacle may have opened up a lot of voters eyes as to how bad this lot of politicians are. Bunch of incompetent idiots
This is such a shit deal. We end up worse off economically with us still having EU rehulstion but zero say. No wonder nobody barring May likes it.
This is pretty much already the case. Scotland, Wales and NI have seperate devolved legislatures.
I understand why you would look at it like this, but I don't believe the EU hoodwinked Britain. However, the last time the question was put to the public regarding Europe was in 1975, and there have been material changes to the deal since then. I also don't see how leaving the EU would necessitate violence in NI.
Not the same thing at all. You're still thinking of the EU as some kind of lose partnership: this is not the case and has not been for a long time. The EU has a central bank, a parliament, courts, a police force and soon will have a military. Now, I'm not against the EU doing any of that, but I voted leave because I didn't think it was a good idea for the UK to a part of it.
Newsthump have announced that Baldrick has been appointed as the new Brexit minister.
Not sure what your point is here?
All options remain on the table... So backing Mays deal... Leaving with no deal ... Probably both as likley as Corbyn backing the 2nd referendum
Out of interest what do people think Corbyn would do in a 2nd referendum
Campaign for leave
Campaign for remain
Sit on the fence
I would argue that as a politician it is his job to work for the people and as such sitting on the fence is his job.
I would suggest that is at best naive and at worst deliberately disinterested. A deal will result in some form of a hard border between Northern Ireland and the rest of Britain while no deal will result in a hard border on the Island of Ireland. Either option is more likely to eventually end in violence than not and to bury your head in the sand and suggest it will all be fine flies in the face of decades of evidence to the contrary.
It was irresponsible and wrong to vote for something for selfish reasons without receiving cast iron guarantees as to how violence would be avoided beforehand. Pretty much every glib assumption offered by the leave campaign have been proved wrong so far so I can't understand how anyone would so easily take something this important as a given.
You would argue that in a second referendum he should not have an opinion... feck me even by his standards that would be piss poor leadership.... Actually yeah perhaps he would
I wouldn't expect him to campaign at all, but I would expect him to favour remain.
To be fair he hardly bothered to campaign last time... If push came to shove though I think he would pick leave based on respecting the first referendum (well that and not really liking the EU anyway)
I'm not sure how it could be clearer?
Scotland and Northern Ireland manage to have their own governments without leaving the UK and Britain has maintained its own government without having to leave the EU. You've said the regions have devolved more power than ever with mayoral systems but at the end of the day they are still accountable to the British government and there are British laws and regulations they must adhere to.
My post that you first replied to was simply asking Andrew why if Britain would be better off completely free from the shackles of EU law and regulation, would the smaller regions of Britain not be better off free of the shackles of British government?
Sure, but those were never the only options on the table. It seems to me the EU heirarchy have been lead to believe that reversing brexit is a viable option, hence them taking a more hard line negotiating stance. A resolution on NI is possible, but not while the EU thinks that by forcing the UK into a corner, they can change the current policy.
Maybe that's naive.
Yeah....But look at the idiots that did campaign. Personally I'm happy for him to sit on the fence
What were the other options on the table in your opinion?
The EU's stance on Article 50, the Four Freedoms and the Good Friday Agreement have been clear and consistent from the very beginning. They were defined long before Brexit was ever a realistic idea. When you say "forcing the UK into a corner" what you are really saying is "not allowing the UK to abdicate their responsibilities and commitments".
You can't solve the N.Ireland issue without it being treated differently. It's time people accepted that and stopped talking shite.
Jesus christ, our country's whole existence revolves around us being treated differently due to the circumstances. You can't just start pretending otherwise.
Jesus christ, our country's whole existence revolves around us being treated differently due to the circumstances. You can't just start pretending otherwise.
Which is....?
It’s hard to make a case for them being better off because they are more reliant on trade with England and subsidies from Westminster than the UK is from the EU. NI is propped up by a massively inflated public sector and is so for political reasons.
Nationalist arguments are always emotional and about identity. A decent number of English are akin to Russians, in that they feel they don’t need or want any input from other countries or cultures. Identity is complex and identity politics trumps economic concerns a lot of the time.
Perhaps the Northern Irish, Welsh or Scottish would happier as independent nations but theyd have to pay and economic cost at first, similar to Brexit.
I don't understand; just now Theresa May has managed to negotiate a "no hard border" agreement with EU, even though the agreement technically ends freedom of movement. That option was always there, it's just that the EU knew they could hold out and extract as many concessions as possibe from May to get it.
Yet you're all acting like it's impossible.
So basically you have no idea about what the EU is? First it's a treaty based union where the executive is made of the member states(the EU council), it's literally a cooperation. Secondly there is no police as such there is a police agency that doesn't have any executive power and that is controlled by the council of ministers(the 28 home office ministers), there is no EU military or plan for it(PESCO is a cooperation between 25 members, mainly on equipment), the courts do not replace national courts(in fact national courts have the power to impose EU laws and create precedents), the parliament doesn't have a legislative power.
There will be an EU army within 10 years I’d bet. It needs one.