Melvyn Bragg in fine form.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Melvyn Bragg in fine form.
There's a certain irony in thinking you can change minds by saying 'you're stupid'.
yes, that was also because of EU disagreements within the party
Agreed. This is the government's principal piece of legislation, essentially its entire raison d'être; if she fails to get it through the commons (which is obviously now inevitable), she can't possibly survive.
May will go, then it will be a no deal Brexit, with one of the wankers who got us into this mess, at the helm.
Did you vote Brexit by any chance?
This this...this. The only way to counter this problem is educate educate...educate .
It's depressing hearing Labour MPs talking about ending FoM like it's the best all and end all. Why admit to a problem when there isn't one just because you want to lander to ignorant people.
Half the people who bleat on about immigration come from places where there are no migrants. We need to contact front this ignorance. It's getting us nowhere.
Womp womp.
Even though it makes his department just a big waste of money.
Jacob Rees Mogg can't even organise a coup properly.
Yes.
Shock horror! The no deal talk was a bluff. The problem is the only people who believed it are the ERG.
No deal and we're fecked.
What would happen if there is no deal? Should I say what is the worst that could happen, or is even the best that could happen the worst?
Good luck changing people's minds like that. I'm sure some just don't care what happens to the country but 17m people, some will have believed what they were told. An get should be directed at those who misled people, not those who fell for a con.
So, when's the re-vote since you all fecked up the first one? 
I saw one of the top comments earlier on the Mail - saying that they'd rather be free even if it means we're poor.
Really??
Bloody hell! Things weren't that bad for goodness sake. It bit irritating at times, but that was it. What is wrong with these people?
I didn't and I'd vote remain again if we could unilaterally repeal Article 50.
I think if we negotiate in good faith rather than trying fling shit at each other, things can get worked out. My ideal scenario would be an FTA that ports alot of EFTA trade and travel provisions, but removes regulatory alignment and final removes European courts as the final appellate courts. We can have a customs agreement with EU without them stipulating who we set tariffs for and who we don't.
It doesn't really benefit the EU to give us a particularly good, generous deal though because it sets a precedent for other countries being able to leave. Might be shite for us, but then we were fully aware of that when we opted to leave.
Sorry but I only see shit and lack of actual options from one side in the negotiations. Hint: it's the ones floundering around about to throw their leader under the bus.
I'll defer to others more knowledgable on this, but your ideal scenario sounds like a paradox fantasy to me. How exactly would that satisfy the "take back control" people? And why would the EU put up with a removal of regulatory alignment and tariff alignment while still giving the benefits of free trade?
Yep, this too.
For some, it's just about 'winning' now, no matter the consequences but you can't just label all leave voters in the same way. Some may have had valid reasons to want to vote that way, some may have been tricked by all the bullshit that flew around at the time.
Were people really aware that it would be sh*te for us though. I think a lot thought it was going to be great for them after leaving. It is very easy to fool some people.
Not sure I can take people like that serious any more in 2018. Respect his military career but he has shown his feathers.
That’s the ideal scenario for the UK alright. You won’t get your ideal scenario, though. That’s not how negotiating works. You’ll have to compromise and settle for a scenario that isn’t ideal. And - almost certainly- is worse than your current scenario. The madness of Brexit in a nutshell.
Indeed.
Also, isn't it funny that whenever someone pro-Brexit is asked to provide a solution to the border issue their response is usually to keep a customs agreement + <all the extra stuff we want that we don't have now>.
I mean, surely, surely they knew when they voted to leave that voting to leave means leaving the customs union? Yet... they want to stay in it in some form.
Almost as if when they voted to leave they didn't really know what it was or the implications? No?
A frictionless border is impossible without CU/SM. The UK are either in or out. If the UK has a border with friction they are in deep trouble. It is not a small country with many border points, it is a relatively large country with few border points which Raab only seemed to realise last week. We're back to the cherry picking trying to take the bits that suit them and not the rest.
The agreement the UK have on the table is the best they're going to get. Then they'll start discussing a FTA agreement after March. If the deal is accepted the UK stay in the SM/CU until it's agreed that they can leave, ie when the NI issue is sorted. So until further notice the four freedoms would still apply and the ECJ. I don't see the UK accepting the withdrawal agreement and don't see the EU wanting to renegotiating it either. Basically two and half years wasted if this offer is not accepted. If the Uk leave with no deal in March there's no transition which should have been used to make progress on the new FTA.
agreed one of the better articles Ive seen on the issue as it does not have too much bluster in it - really does highlight that there isnt a clear way forward though
Has Britain got its Empire back yet?
I don't think it sets any precedent at all. If the EU is as great a project as you all seem to think it is, there is no need to create some kind of forceful deterrent against leaving.
Because they do it all the time with other nations?
Why not? What exactly are the EU losing by that scenario? The UK can't stay in the EU, and a deal which keeps us in the EU in all but name is not going to get any support. So what exactly are the EU aiming to acheive with this that doesn't effectively prove the criticisms tabled about them by Eurosceptics?
The average joe bloggs in the street wouldn’t have known the phrases “customs union” or “single market” never mind hard or soft brexit before they voted. People were led to this outcome. For such a decision with massive repercussions, its really disgusting how it went down
Well, this is Theresa May's (and partly the EU's too) fault IMO. A frictionless border is only impossible if there is no customs arrangement, and for some reason, you seem to think the European Customs Union is the only such arrangement possible. I disagree. If the EU are so eager to set an example of the UK, then I think a no deal scenario might play out in the short term. There are things we can do unilateraly to prevent major changes to the Ireland/NI situation until a comprehensive FTA is agreed.
Not yet - but on the 29th of march we are going to start rounding up Africans to sell to trump and send our gunboats to start shelling china till they agree to sell our opium again.
Mogg is printing the overpriced Make Britian and Empire Again, union jack (MBEA) caps right now
There are still border controls on goods in the Canada FTA I’m afraid. There is an element of regulatory alignment in the Canada deal, but it’s not full alignment, hence border controls remain.
Also, financial services are not included.
That's the next project. They'll demand the Empire back, or else they'll leave the Commonwealth (Comexit).
It's not about a deterrent against leaving, it's about being consequent and not wanting EU members to think that if they leave the EU you can keep all the benefits of being in the EU. Having your cake and eating it...
The EU is far from perfect and as far as I can tell nobody is debating that. However, the whole Brexit debate should have been about whether Britain are better off outside or inside the EU. Clearly Britain will be worse off outside the EU no matter what deal might or might not be struck. The whole Leave referendum campaign was a farce. That fantastic deal the Brexiteers were selling during the referendum campaign was a total fantasy. The British public has been fooled right from the start of the referendum campaign. People like Boris Johnston shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near Westminster.