That's exactly the sort of thing she'll be hoping to hear. Tories, putting country above party politics; Labour, self-interest first. You're walking straight into the trap.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think they’ll go then walk out and say it was a waste of time because it won’t get through parliament or that it’s a Turkey Trap.
She's playing a blinder. She'll give the Tories a free vote on it next. Labour will be under pressure to reciprocate. If they stick a three line whip in they'll look as if they are acting out of self interest.
She has a tangible deal to argue for whereas Corbyn only has a fantasy position to promote/defend. Corbyn's plan if he ends up holding the Brexit baby is too '11th hour' the EU into capitulating to his demands.
I don't think Labour has much to lose by allowing a free vote, most MPs seem to hate the deal.
They thought that in 71. Heath forced a free vote and won by a 112 majority. This isn't the same I know. But is is kitchen sink stuff from May which tells me that if she doesn't get it through she'll resign.
There's been something about the last day or two that's been a bit sea-changeish for May. The 'man on the street' has started to back her. A John Major on his soapbox type thing. Events are so volatile it could change again at any moment of course, but right now I think she's picking up support strongly. I'm sure the party zealots on here will disagree, but I'm no Tory, I'm just saying what I see.
But she's REALLY bad in that kind of situation. She gets flustered and uncomfortable extremely easily, and can only hold up a coherent sales pitch if she's giving a speech or answering questions in a very controlled environment where she can hedge and fall back on soundbites that aren't necessarily relevant to the question being answered. Put her in a head to head debate with an experienced debater like Corbyn and its not going to matter whether she has the stronger case, he's just going to put her on her heels and watch her come unglued.
For a TV debate it doesn't really matter who makes the better arguments, what matters is the manner they come across to the viewers. It's the reason why in the JFK-Nixon debate, radio listeners thought Nixon had won easily while TV viewers overwhelmingly thought JFK had won. With May however she couldn't even win over the radio crowd, she just can't handle this kind of arena.
I think it's just because the initial uproar has gone and she's had a few perceived victories in surviving the leadership challenge and getting the agreements passed by the EU.
They've had the benefit of planning their media campaign for a while now where as everyone else is just responding to events.
Corbyn's great at doing that, when he believes in something. Less sure he could muster it up for the current triangulated brexit approach they have.
The UK won't separate NI from the rest of the UK. But really there is no solution. Well there is, the UK stays in the EU.
As May heads to the Houses of Parliament, if she is true to form ,after having visited Brussels she will completely deny that she has agreed anything with the EU.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...taking-part-in-brexit-tv-debate-jeremy-corbyn
I'm so sick of this stupid cnut. Yeah Jeremy, lets have a televised debate about Brexit, not talk about one of the main options 70+% of your own party want, and talk about lots of non-Brexit related issues instead. You fecking moron.
Brexit should be the topic, first and last. There'll be plenty of time for other matters. The country is in a crisis. Blathering on about wage growth will not get anything resolved.
Yes, could be, it's about how she moves forward I suppose. Not sure perceived is the right word though, temporary is arguable, but they're still real enough in themselves.
fecking Corbyn wanting to talk about people's actual lives, that were shit before Brexit came along and will be shit regardless of how Brexit plays out, as if they're actual human beings who are equal to the cnuts whose interest in politics began in June 2016 and will almost certainly end whenever this distraction goes away. Boo that man. Boo.
Just talk about Brexit and then we can all go back to those halcyon days of May 2016, when the only threat to vulnerable people were the same Tories now warmly welcomed at People's Vote events, 3 days after they vote to hide the Universal Credit rollout risk assessment.
Time and place. Corbyn gets to raise those issues every week at PMQ's. Right now the country faces a crisis and if it is not resolved then the lot of the people you talk about could get a whole lot worse.
He's not just walking into May's trap, he's running into it. Labour need a cleverer leader.
Yeah, the time and place to talk about actual people's lives is definitely not whilst trying to get them to vote your way - whether it's a GE or a People's Vote. How stupid of me.
Let's pretend their lives are of little consequence and that ending Brexit is far more important. I seem to remember that tactic going down extremely well at the last referendum.
I’ve been following politics closely for over 30 years and it’s funny how many of those people whose lives were shit before never gave a single feck about politics, thought it had no impact on their lives, but then suddenly decided in July 2016 that they were the experts and that leaving the EU would change everything for the better.
Of course the fact that leaving the EU is going to hand the Torres a blank cheque to feck the poor (which is why it’s predominantly hard right Tory cnuts who have fought so hard for it) is just by the by. Or maybe you think the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg and John Redwood are deeply passionate about the troubles of sandwich factory workers in my home town?
Thank goodness they've been so restricted, in their ability to do that, by the EU for the last decade.
The 'So you agree with JRM, eh?' tactic would probably be a decent one, had People's Vote not warmly welcomed Jo Johnson to an event recently, despite him voting 13 times against EU nationals' right to remain in the UK (to 0 times for it) and 15 times against the UK's membership of the EU (again, to 0 times for it). But no, suddenly he's definitely the EU's number one fan because he's had a little moan in the Commons.
Nah, I saw a well spoken woman on telly arguing that leaving the EU will turn us into a socialist paradise, that the EU are terrified of this and therefore will give us a great deal if only Jez can be the one negotiating. Made perfect sense.
It's as close to reality as befriending the likes of Jo Johnson, Anna Soubry, Vince Cable and Chris Leslie whilst pretending to be concerned about vulnerable people and cuts targeted at them after Brexit.
Bring back the glory days where the only risks to vulnerable people via cuts targeted at them were...
...the likes of Jo Johnson, Anna Soubry, Vince Cable and Chris Leslie.
So when our troops were on the beaches at Dunkirk, poverty should have been the priority in Parliament? The fact that the Nazis could follow through and invade and probably wipe out half the poor would be secondary?
What we have here is a national crisis that will cause untold damage if it is not resolved. Nobody is saying that other issues are not important only that those issues will become more acute if this bloody issue isn't sorted.
Yeah, if there's one thing coverage of any PMQs and the replies to any social media post Corbyn has put out in the last 2 years (including him recently wishing Harry Leslie Smith well in his recovery in hospital) says it's that 'Nobody is saying that other issues are not important'
For all the stuff written about Leave being funded by Putin, I think people should look into whether People's Vote is being funded and run by people who want to leave the EU - you know, aside from befriending Tories who've spent years voting against the UK's membership of the EU. Look at the strategy:
1. Mass marches through London deserve to be heard and should certainly alter the course of British politics. Who is doing their PR for them, in any medium that'll have them? Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell. Genius!
2. Young people don't like Brexit and it's their future any Brexit is putting in jeopardy. Who else was doing their PR for them, until Facebook remembered how little his principles cost? Nick Clegg. What a shrewd move.
3. Brexit is going to make the average person poorer and will almost certainly lead to more cuts. Who shall we get to spread this message? Anti-austerity groups? People who work in food banks? No, get me some of the most vocal and consistent supporters of the last decade of austerity you can find and lets cheer them like it's fecking Live Aid all over again.
Last edited:
May, however delude, is at least trying to get this thing sorted. Corbyn is nothing more than a cynical opportunist.
Yeah. As Prime Minister, I can't believe how little to do with the negotiations Corbyn is having.
As leader of the opposition, if he opposes May’s deal he should set out a credible alternative. I have yet to hear it, including in his response to May today.
He can't unless he has access to the EU commission to negotiate an alternative.
Have you actually bothered looking?
I like how much Corbyn annoys people in this thread.
And how rarely his most ardent supporters actually defend his position on Brexit without strawmanning.
Especially when he's so irrelevant to the whole thing.
The EU 27 have not exactly been opaque throughout this process in setting out their key positions, i.e. the four freedoms are indivisible and non-membership cannot be as beneficial as continuing membership. Are you seriously suggesting Corbyn could get a materially better deal from the EU?
The fact that things were shit for a lot of people doesn't mean they won't get a lot, lot worse if Brexit isn't sorted out properly. A lot of the criticism re this issue concerning Corbyn as often been over the top and exaggerated (as coverage of him often is) but it's undeniable he's not really presented any workable strategy thus far to something that's by far the biggest issue facing the country. And the response that he isn't in government doesn't work either - the whole point of opposition is to highlight the flaws of the government and present actual, workable solution to the things the government are doing wrong.
Yep he's going to get exactly the same benefits as the Single Market and Customs Union without actually being in them. Sounds very possible if you're an idiot.
Out of date I'm afraid. He might have been a better negotiator than May, or he might not, but in any event negotiations are over. He has a choice of backing the deal or no deal, unless he u-turns completely and proposes we ask the EU if we can remain, which he won't. The EU say they will negotiate no further, and I believe them.
Corbyn is relevant because he's leader of the Labour party, and given the party splits then how his members vote will determine whether we leave with the deal or without a deal. I'd say that's relevant.
There's absolutely nothing new here, Labour will not allow itself to be painted as the blockers of Brexit.
After the commons vote perhaps because then it's not on them which is why they've refused to take it off the table.
Exactly what do you think adding it to a televised debate adds? This isn't to influence a public vote and May will just slap the suggestion down and use it as a weapon.
Are people unaware of the idea so that it needs Corbyn to advertise it? Do you think May will suddenly change her mind? Enlighten me
Last edited:
He may be leader of the Labour Party , not convinced he's leader of the opposition. If it goes to a free vote or Labour MPs rebel against him he won't be.