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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Paul the Wolf said:
Three years come next April if the Uk leave without a deal, he said very little leading up to the referendum
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You can thank the genius that is Alan Johnson for that, who lead the Labour Remain campaign and wanted nothing to do with Corbyn or Momentum. Thankfully there hasn't been an election since where those two working together has made him look like an absolute fecking idiot, or I'm sure your ire would be in his direction.
Paul the Wolf said:
Which one does Corbyn want - he says he wants to respect the referendum result thus he wants no deal.
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What a mad bastard. Just ignore it and all the people who voted to leave will wake up like when they kill the enemy at the end of an episode of Doctor Who. I'm sure you could make Tommy Robinson and his new UKIP mates and/or what Nigel Farage comes up with next to pinky promise not to use the fact the voting public were ignored in all their future election campaigning.
 
Dobba said:
You can thank the genius that is Alan Johnson for that, who lead the Labour Remain campaign and wanted nothing to do with Corbyn or Momentum. Thankfully there hasn't been an election since where those two working together has made him look like an absolute fecking idiot, or I'm sure your ire would be in his direction.

'He says he wants respect the referendum result'
What a mad bastard. Just ignore it and all the people who voted to leave will wake up like when they kill the enemy at the end of an episode of Doctor Who.
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You're avoiding my point.
We are where we are - Corbyn will now vote down May's deal which does respect the referendum result.
What happens next - either the UK cancels Brexit or it leaves with no deal. Which one is Corbyn in favour of?

He can't cancel Brexit because that doesn't respect the referendum result, he can't satisfy his six tests because that means the UK have to remain to satisfy them, there is no renegotiation, only remaining option is no deal.
So does Corbyn favour No Deal - simple question - Yes or No?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You're avoiding my point.
We are where we are - Corbyn will now vote down May's deal which does respect the referendum result.

What happens next - either the UK cancels Brexit or it leaves with no deal. Which one is Corbyn in favour of?

He can't cancel Brexit because that doesn't respect the referendum result, he can't satisfy his six tests because that means the UK have to remain to satisfy them, there is no renegotiation, only remaining option is no deal.
So does Corbyn favour No Deal - simple question - Yes or No?
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Labour want either a general election or, failing that, a second referendum. If the former happens and Labour win (or as Corbyn put it in that tweet the Tories 'give way to those who will'), we find out what Starmer's frequent meetings with the EU have told him. You must remember those, because they're usually followed by whining that Corbyn hasn't gone over there himself.

How many times have they got to come out and say it? Heck, how have you managed to miss People's Vote whining that they'd dare put something in front of their second vote?
 
Dobba said:
You can thank the genius that is Alan Johnson for that, who lead the Labour Remain campaign and wanted nothing to do with Corbyn or Momentum. Thankfully there hasn't been an election since where those two working together has made him look like an absolute fecking idiot, or I'm sure your ire would be in his direction.

What a mad bastard. Just ignore it and all the people who voted to leave will wake up like when they kill the enemy at the end of an episode of Doctor Who. I'm sure you could make Tommy Robinson and his new UKIP mates and/or what Nigel Farage comes up with next to pinky promise not to use the fact the voting public were ignored in all their future election campaigning.
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You don't half go off on one... Do you have any criticisms for Corbyn?
 
afrocentricity said:
You don't half go off on one... Do you have any criticisms for Corbyn?
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Yeah. I wish he'd insisted the party came out against Trident with the last manifesto and I'd quite like the next one to propose a referendum on the future of the British monarchy. He was also far too generous when he rated the EU as 7/10 on that infamous episode of The Last Leg.

Sorry if pointing out that the brains trust of 2016 Labour decided to let Alan Johnson run their remain campaign, was inconvenient for you.
 
Dobba said:
You can thank the genius that is Alan Johnson for that, who lead the Labour Remain campaign and wanted nothing to do with Corbyn or Momentum. Thankfully there hasn't been an election since where those two working together has made him look like an absolute fecking idiot, or I'm sure your ire would be in his direction.
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Are you refering to the election that Corbyn lost?
 
Dobba said:
Yeah. I wish he'd insisted the party came out against Trident with the last manifesto and I'd quite like the next one to propose a referendum on the future of the British monarchy.

Sorry if pointing out that the brains trust of 2016 Labour decided to let Alan Johnson run their remain campaign, was inconvenient for you.
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Not inconvenient at all. Maybe I'm wrong I'm sure I've missed loads but all I see is another politician playing politics. His non committal snakery is incredibly disappointing/disheartening/dishonest/etc...

To see you so forcefully fighting his corner. Just wondered is all...
 
Dobba said:
Labour want either a general election or, failing that, a second referendum. If the former happens and Labour win (or as Corbyn put it in that tweet the Tories 'give way to those who will'), we find out what Starmer's frequent meetings with the EU have told him. You must remember those, because they're usually followed by whining that Corbyn hasn't gone over there himself.

How many times have they got to come out and say it? Heck, how have you managed to miss People's Vote whining that they'd dare put something in front of their second vote?
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I know Labour want a general election, whether there is one is doubtful , whether Labour wins is doubtful. The Tories or rather the civil service have been in non-stop discussions with the EU for the best part of two years and the Uk have got exactly what was expected. Labour / Starmer will change nothing. The 4 freedoms and the backstop are not up for discussion. The second part of the negotiation will start after the UK leaves in March if May's deal survives.

I know the UK still think, even after all this time, that the EU are just waiting around to see which cherries the UK would like and which leader will be in charge. The first part is over, either the UK go ahead with the deal, they revoke A50 or they leave with no deal. No more fantasy from the Tories or Labour.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I know Labour want a general election, whether there is one is doubtful , whether Labour wins is doubtful. The Tories or rather the civil service have been in non-stop discussions with the EU for the best part of two years and the Uk have got exactly what was expected. Labour / Starmer will change nothing. The 4 freedoms and the backstop are not up for discussion. The second part of the negotiation will start after the UK leaves in March if May's deal survives.

I know the UK still think, even after all this time, that the EU are just waiting around to see which cherries the UK would like and which leader will be in charge. The first part is over, either the UK go ahead with the deal, they revoke A50 or they leave with no deal. No more fantasy from the Tories or Labour.
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Yeah, I'm going to stick with the views of Keir Starmer. I think if he'd spent the last 2 and a half years being told by the EU that he'd 'change nothing' should he have been leading the negotiations he'd probably have mentioned that and told Corbyn that Labour should either back May's deal or go all out for a second vote by now.
 
Dobba said:
Yeah, I'm going to stick with the views of Keir Starmer. I think if he'd spent the last 2 and a half years being told by the EU that he'd 'change nothing' should he have been leading the negotiations he'd probably have mentioned that and told Corbyn that Labour should either back May's deal or go all out for a second vote by now.
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Tell me what you expect that Starmer could possibly get and you still haven't answered my question.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Tell me what you expect that Starmer could possibly get and you still haven't answered my question.
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Hang on, let me climb into his mind so I can listen to the conversations he's been having with them for the last 2 and a half years.

What could May and her merry band of cretins have got if she had different red lines in her negotiations?
 
Dobba said:
That's the one.

Like Alan Johnson lost the Labour argument at the Brexit referendum, I'm sure you were going to go on to explain.
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I must have misunderstood your point. Sounded like you were taking vindication from an election loss.
 
Dobba said:
Hang on, let me climb into his mind so I can listen to the conversations he's been having with them for the last 2 and a half years.
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So you've no idea but you're believing that he would achieve something.

May is claiming she negotiated down the money to be paid, the 100bn was only something claimed by one of the British papers and the EU have never said a figure publicly. The second success she is claiming is that the whole of the UK will be covered by the CU in the backstop, which is rather good news for the EU.

This isn't May's deal, this is what was on offer since the beginning, just finer points have been tweeked.
Corbyn can call May a hopeless negotiator, he may well be right, but there's not been really a lot to be negotiated.

The real negotiations start in April but by then we'll know how the UK will be leaving (or not) as the case may be.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I know the UK still think, even after all this time, that the EU are just waiting around to see which cherries the UK would like and which leader will be in charge. The first part is over, either the UK go ahead with the deal, they revoke A50 or they leave with no deal. No more fantasy from the Tories or Labour.
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Is there any possibility for the UK to negotiate a delay in order to have another referendum - deal on offer vs remain presumably? Or would that take revocation of A50 and start again?
 
Wibble said:
Is there any possibility for the UK to negotiate a delay in order to have another referendum - deal on offer vs remain presumably? Or would that take revocation of A50 and start again?
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It's possible.
 
Given the shadow international trade secretary happily described the most substantive of their six tests when behind closed doors as "bollocks" (for which he was not sacked), I'm going to suggest their public statements on the matter may not actually be what they really think.

Everyone knows Labour's position is a fudge to walk the line between angering the two poles of support in the party, let's not pretend it's being put forward in good faith.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Has anyone asked a question as simple as;

“Do you believe that more than 50% of the country currently wants to leave the EU”...?

It’s 100% anecdotal but two things are true;

1. Nobody I’ve spoken to that voted Remain, wants to now leave.
2. Many people that I’ve spoken To that voted leave, now want to remain.

The government is an absolute joke.

I’d take Trump over May or Corbyn
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My English friend who wanted to leave wants to leave even more now because EU is "bullying us"
 
Wibble said:
Is there any possibility for the UK to negotiate a delay in order to have another referendum - deal on offer vs remain presumably? Or would that take revocation of A50 and start again?
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It's come at a very bad time because the EU have elections for the EU parliament on 23rd and 26th May and candidates have to be presented in early May. The new parliament starts sitting at the beginning of July. As it stands the Uk will be leaving and thus will have no seats in the EU parliament an thus have left so the very latest would have to be by end April realistically. So if it is possible the Uk have got a possible month extension. But as it takes longer than that to organise a referendum even if it started next week ,I don't see it.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
It's come at a very bad time because the EU have elections for the EU parliament on 23rd and 26th May and candidates have to be presented in early May. The new parliament starts sitting at the beginning of July. As it stands the Uk will be leaving and thus will have no seats in the EU parliament an thus have left so the very latest would have to be by end April realistically. So if it is possible the Uk have got a possible month extension. But as it takes longer than that to organise a referendum even if it started next week ,I don't see it.
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Someone has floated the possibility that MPs act as MEPs for an interim period. No idea if thats actually possible.
 
Dobba said:
By all means, you may know more than the bloke who has been talking to the actual negotiators for two and a half years, I just highly doubt it.
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The three main points that have been discussed are
Citizen rights
The settlement
The Irish border

The EU have said hundreds of times the 4 freedoms will not be negotiated and the backstop is there while a solution to the Irish border does not exist.
I've no idea what you think can be different or better.

The trade talks and all the rest start in April.
 
Cable talking now and making a lot of sense, allowed to talk too because the majority of the Tories have done their few hours work for the day and have retired to the Commons Bar.
 
Much of what can and can't be achieved with Brexit has been spelt out since day one. If Labour supporters believe they can negotiate fantasy deals that breach that reality then more fool them, they're every bit as delusional as their Tory supporting counterparts.
 
shamans said:
My English friend who wanted to leave wants to leave even more now because EU is "bullying us"
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You have shitty taste in friends. (Insert the abbreviation for ‘laugh out loud’ here because the text speak function on this site is stupid and prefers green smileys to a simple tla)
 
sullydnl said:
Much of what can and can't be achieved with Brexit has been spelt out since day one. If Labour supporters believe they can negotiate fantasy deals that breach that reality then more fool them, they're every bit as delusional as their Tory supporting counterparts.
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It's just optics, you've got Starmer and McDonnel pushing towards a referendum and backing amendments. Corbyns words are just for effect so it doesn't make Mays job easier in painting it as a party issue although she's giving it a good go anyway.

May threatens a no deal falsely and Corbyn a renegotiation. Neither have any intention of doing as such
 
Dobba said:
Labour want either a general election or, failing that, a second referendum. If the former happens and Labour win (or as Corbyn put it in that tweet the Tories 'give way to those who will'), we find out what Starmer's frequent meetings with the EU have told him. You must remember those, because they're usually followed by whining that Corbyn hasn't gone over there himself.

How many times have they got to come out and say it? Heck, how have you managed to miss People's Vote whining that they'd dare put something in front of their second vote?
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Yeah Labour have been so clear about their intentions. They've moved from Corbyn hiding behind 'respecting the referendum result' to now hiding behind 'a second referendum is still on the table' after the grass roots forced them to.
They're intellectually and morally bankrupt opposition to a borderline fascist set of bastards.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
See that the future of the UK is so important that there are hardly any MP's in attendance at the debate.
Few Brexiters in attendance like Paterson talking crap.
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It was packed and rowdy earlier but you can’t expect them to work for more than a few hours.
 
To be fair to them having had it on in the background whilst working from home, a lot of them were there for a very long time today and yesterday and will be for the next 4 days.
 
Smores said:
To be fair to them having had it on in the background whilst working from home, a lot of them were there for a very long time today and yesterday and will be for the next 4 days.
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I used to do 12-16 hour days 6-7 days a week for weeks at a time and was often lucky if I didn’t have to eat breakfast and staff dinner while on the go. All to cook some feckin poncey food.

Forgive me if I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these people who are supposed to be running the country and can’t be bothered to sit on their arses for more than a few hours to debate the most important issues of our lifetime. By all means nip out for some food, a coffee and some fresh air if you need it but 3/4 of the house buggered off well over an hour ago with no intention of coming back.
 
Pexbo said:
I used to do 12-16 hour days 6-7 days a week for weeks at a time and was often lucky if I didn’t have to eat breakfast and staff dinner while on the go. All to cook some feckin poncey food.

Forgive me if I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these people who are supposed to be running the country and can’t be bothered to sit on their arses for more than a few hours to debate the most important issues of our lifetime. By all means nip out for some food, a coffee and some fresh air if you need it but 3/4 of the house buggered off well over an hour ago with no intention of coming back.
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It's less work hours (as they'll be working elsewhere) and more that you can only sit and hear the same arguments over and over for so long. The length of the debates is more to allow ample time for backbenchers to speak on record than it is for genuine discussion.
 
Pexbo said:
I used to do 12-16 hour days 6-7 days a week for weeks at a time and was often lucky if I didn’t have to eat breakfast and staff dinner while on the go. All to cook some feckin poncey food.

Forgive me if I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these people who are supposed to be running the country and can’t be bothered to sit on their arses for more than a few hours to debate the most important issues of our lifetime. By all means nip out for some food, a coffee and some fresh air if you need it but 3/4 of the house buggered off well over an hour ago with no intention of coming back.
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I don't think that's necessarily a healthy lifestyle for anyone to lead though, irrespective of what you do.

Granted, I agree with your general point about MP's not attending these debates, due to their obvious importance, but I do feel like the occasional captions you see of HoC debates with not that many MP's in attendance can be a bit simplistic and manipulative. There are some issues wherein it makes sense for a small handful of MP's with some expertise in said issue to debate it. Albeit this isn't obviously one of them.
 
Dobba said:
Yeah. I wish he'd insisted the party came out against Trident with the last manifesto and I'd quite like the next one to propose a referendum on the future of the British monarchy. He was also far too generous when he rated the EU as 7/10 on that infamous episode of The Last Leg.
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He can kiss my vote goodbye forever if he ever tries that shit with Trident. Also since when was the Labour Party supposedly a dictatorship where the leader gets to impose his own policies on the party membership? You want Labour to turn into the Tories?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
You have shitty taste in friends. (Insert the abbreviation for ‘laugh out loud’ here because the text speak function on this site is stupid and prefers green smileys to a simple tla)
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I'm just surprised because this friend of mine is usually a pretty smart guy, he has traveled the world and loves different cultures. For some reason he is incredibly pro brexit. To be honest he has convinced me that it won't be as bad as people make it out to be. Personally I see Brexit as a step backwards for England but I think the whole doomsday thing seems speculative? I really don't know much about the whole issue though.
 
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