It’s not the EUs job to run UK domestic policy. They’ve put investment into deprived areas, but at some point it’s Britain’s own fecking responsibility to elect sensible governments to fix the damn country.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It’s not the EUs job to run UK domestic policy. They’ve put investment into deprived areas, but at some point it’s Britain’s own fecking responsibility to elect sensible governments to fix the damn country.
North East got lots of money as well.
Whatever the current situation it is far better than it would have been if the EU hadn't redirected huge amounts of money to those areas and they will most likely lose all of this when we leave especially if the Tories remain in power.
Correct so you understand why they voted out? Shit life in shit life out.
Out is even worse though.
They voted out because they lashed out at being ignored and lied to by politicians and the media who support them
Corbyn doesn't give a toss about Brexit or the the EU. What he comes out with is meaningless fodder to fill the gap in Labour thinking that 'should' be occupied by these matters. Purely because a hole in that thinking would look bad to party members and potential Labour voters.
Say what you will about May and her deal, she seems to be the only person trying to move this thing forward for the good of the country.
Eh? Speak for yourself mate. Young people are just as dumb as old people, they just don't know it yet.
To borrow a phrase from McEnroe "You cannot be serious"!
All she is thinking about is self preservation. Clinging on to power by any means necessary. She couldn't give two shits about the country. She was dealt a bad hand and she is doing the best she can to stay in the game by holding it up as much as she can in the best interest of absolutely no one but herself!
You and I will have to disagree on that. I really do not think that self-interest is uppermost in her mind. She is a servant not a leader and I think she'd gladly sacrifice her position if she believed the country would benefit from her doing so. As it stands right at this moment, I can't see any benefit in her standing down. Granted there is little upside but if she resigns or is ousted, all of the subsequent permutations look like shit to me.
Last edited:
Shit life that could be improved by voting properly domestically, and which isn't improved (and will be made worse) by voting out of the EU. And you ask me whether I understand why people chose the second option? No, I don't.
Yeah, I'm a huge eurosceptic a
I think for most leave voters it isn't specifically about the quality of their own lives, rather than the desire to leave the perceived mastery of the EU. Most I know are aware that economically things will be much harder, at least in the short to medium term.
I think for most leave voters it isn't specifically about the quality of their own lives, rather than the desire to leave the perceived mastery of the EU. Most I know are aware that economically things will be much harder, at least in the short to medium term.
In what way has the mastery of the EU impacted on your life?
I do not see what is so funny about what have said. I am just disagreeing with your assertion is that May is a power-mad career political cut-throat willing to feck this country over for her own gains.
Now I watch pretty much everything that there is to watch with regard to this whole sorry situation, including vast swathes of Parliamentary debate and I am saying that you are seeing a different person to the one that I am seeing.
There are plenty of genuine self-interested people around her, and opposite her. But she doesn't strike me as materially being one of them.
In terms of her competance, her deal and how she has handled Brexit then sure, you can argue the case there.
But in terms of where her priorities lie - on this issue - I do not believe that they are predominantly self-centred.
Yep.
Virtually nobody I know could cite an EU law that has materially fecked their lives up.
You'd make your own life and your families lives shitter just to 'leave the perceived mastery of the EU'? Wow, that's pretty special.
The EU in many cases has protected us from the Tories. But the plums either don't know that or refuse to acknowledge it.
Important fact I saw yesterday - the UK has been on the "winning" side of 95% of the EU votes it has participated in.
Yes and fact that during our 45 years of EU membership 27 of them have been under Tory leadership kind of goes against the assertion that EU law has protected us from the Tories.
Second interesting fact, the UK abstained on a further 3% of those. They were only on the losing side in 2% of cases.
It's not just about votes though.
It's about laws. Human rights, animal welfare, personal freedoms. Theresa May herself was frequently attacking the EU's position as home secretary.
Even the recent bizarre attack on porn is restricted until we leave the EU unless I'm mistaken.
What I imagine what people mean when they say that EU law has protected us from the Tories is that it has prevented us from becoming a tax haven and from disaster capitalists like Rees-Mogg. Essentially stopped a lot of the nutjob element.
Last edited:
We've done that ourselves by not voting them in. The EU didn't do that for us.
The UK - like most modern democracies - would have passed laws protecting human rights etc. etc. even if we were never in the EU. The EU doesn't have a corner on the decency market.
Well we're not at tax haven and disaster capitalists aren't in charge yet.
Don't know about that. I suspect the UK would have drifted more towards a US style wealth creation centered orientation of the employer is key, feck workers' rights. Actually, my biggest concern regarding Brexit is that this what will happen if we leave, creating a more unequal, fecked up society.
Any evidence for this? Given how right-wing populism has taken off recently? Which is hardly something is garnered towards decency?
Our record of voting 'for' such legislation as stated above would suggest that the UK mindset is not like that.
Any evidence to the contrary?
How can you say she is not be self centred when she wasted 2 years of negotiations and instead of bringing the whole of parliament together and working cross party to achieve something for the good of the country regarding Brexit she tried and failed at a power grab general election to strengthen her own position. Please tell me how that was for the good of the country?
She can't even bring herself to say that if the deal goes down she will resign. This is why the only appropriate answer to your laughable comments was a green smiley.
Agreed. And signing article 50 itself was an act to gather brexiteers support at the time it happened. Neither her government nor her country was ready, it was irresponsible.
To say this woman is doing her duty is incomprehensible when all her actions harm the very country she is representing.
She tried to do the right thing and put a Brexiteer in charge only to discover that the supercilious twat's negotiating plan was 'give us everything we want and more or we'll jump off the cliff'. That was the stalemate for over a year puctuated with pressers where DD stated that progress was being made only for Barnier to come out 5 minutes later and say the opposite. Seeing this for the total car crash it was going to result in (and probably following some pretty frank phone calls from the EU regarding DD) May eventually had no choice but to step in personally. If anything you could say she should have done so earlier. What we have now is the result of that because she was not prepared to let the country crash out on WTO rules.
It was an act to honour the vote of the referendum and virtually the whole house supported it.
At the time it happened.
The UK should at the very least have commissioned plans to expand the ports before triggering article 50 to give the pretense of "no deal" any sort of plausibility.
It was simply irresponsible to trigger article 50 with no preparation whatsoever. Talk about honor all you want, there is little honor in navigating your country into a nightmarish crisis simply so you can keep saying "it was the will of the people". It wasn't. It was the will of the people to leave the EU, not to do so in the most incompetent way imaginable.
Never seen such a gutless leader of the opposition. His plan is to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong. Good luck with that.
It's all very well to sit here with hindsight saying we should have expanded the ports. No government was going to spend that kind of money unless and until it was absolutely necessary. The longer the delay the greater the accusations would have been that they were kicking the can down the road. This was all going to end in a crisis regardless of when A50 was triggered. The problem was having the referendum - not the result. Any government of whatever colour that tried to reverse the result would be in danger of consigning themselves to the political wilderness for a generation.
Sorry but you failed to answer any of the points raised and waffled some hypotheticals in the mix. She set out her red lines and the negotiators followed that. She threatened no deal and tax haven on the edge of Europe in her speech how was that in any way in the countrys interest. She stuck the Brexiteers in cabinet to support her so that way they didn't work against her.
The only thing in the countrys interest is unity, she failed miserably on all fronts and has always been about self preservation as a politician.
It's your argument, you defend it.
Yes totally. Problem is a lot of people still think they can go back to the EU and get something better so gambling that if May's deal is rejected they'll end up with something else. I have had the impression for a long time that the UK are sleepwalking to disaster and they'll probably end up with No Deal by accident.
Explain to me how she would have been able to establish a cross-party working arrangement when you had the SNP and Libdems who's only mission is to reverse the result and a Labour party that would never engaged in anything other than that which advances their own agenda. You ask me for evidence. You have a Parliament which was almost 2/3 Remain which you reckon could coalesce to enact a 52% leave vote from the people. People that spanned every party and every class. Tell me exactly how that would have worked.
It wasn't hindsight when I and many others said so at the time. I'm not even necessarily saying the ports should have been expanded, but there should have been a game plan to do so should it become necessary to have them running by the end of the 2 year period. I agree that the original mistake was the referendum, and yes it was always going to become difficult... but she's played one blunder after the other. As a result the UK is now facing her deal (which for a multitude of reasons would never be desirable under normal circumstances) or no deal, which is unimaginable to many of us. And i'd be even be fine with that, if it was all ingenious politicking to get her deal across the line, but it isn't working.