No deal it is then
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No deal it is then
The whole thing is a joke, it’s as clear as day we are going to remain. Negotiate a terrible deal, imply a no deal will mean the country turn into the third world and then the ECJ rule, with impeccable timing, we can revoke Article 50 and be let back in without the other nations voting.
Why delay the inevitable, just get on with it and do it. There will be a backlash by a group of people no matter what happens. Nothing is getting resolved by constantly delaying. The EU won’t negotiate anything now so it’s pointless going back to the table with them.
Why delay the inevitable, just get on with it and do it. There will be a backlash by a group of people no matter what happens. Nothing is getting resolved by constantly delaying. The EU won’t negotiate anything now so it’s pointless going back to the table with them.
May's majority in Parliament is 13. We know more letters than that have been sent to the 1924 committee, we don't know how the DUP would vote on a confidence motion. We know that everyone else would support Labour. They might pull together and support May at the last, but then it would be on Grieve, Soubry – or on the other extreme the ERG – to explain why they put party before country.
And even if they were defeated, so what? Parliament can't bind Parliament, there would be nothing to stop Labour calling another confidence vote in 3 weeks time if the situation changed.
All they've down is allowed May off the rope, to fight another day and to kick the can further down the road towards the cliff edge on March 29th.
It's sheer political cowardice from a man who seems desperate to ensure that the Tories get their Brexit.
The two bold bits are the question and the answer.
In all seriousness, it's pretty impressive stuff to be given a list of MPs who are so desperate for this vote of no-confidence that they're not prepared to push for it themselves and decide it's Corbyn who is a political coward. They're playing you like a fiddle.
I really hope we're not headed for no deal. Damage will be incredible on so many levels.
He's playing it exactly the way it has to be played. It's quite obvious.
We're just playing the game of who is to blame.
Considering the strength of statements coming from the Tory side of the benches it's backfired at every turn.
I'm not sure if it'll pass but Corbyn should table the no confidence vote and implore the Tories to join them. The anger at the government from their own side is beyond what I've seen before.
Why would the ERG put it to a GE when they can out May by themselves and just go to a leadership change?
YepDid they actually make a premature ejaculation joke in Parliament?
That’s just the Tory leadership challenge policy, not for votes of no confidence in the government.
So much so they can't even get enough letters to trigger a leadership contest. Suddenly they're all going to be inspired to not only get rid of May, but potentially dissolve parliament?
Because they self evidently don't have the numbers, hence why May didn't face a Conservative party no-confidence vote.
There are however more than 7 of them, which would be enough to tip the balance even if the DUP vote with the government.
Not that they necessarily would, I suspect they wouldn't, but it would ratchet up the pressure on Tory Remainers to put country before party.
And at any rate, a vote of no confidence does not necessarily lead to a GE under the Fixed Term Parliament Act.
Try again. The first sentence makes no sense.
So if they fail then he's further exposed them as being hypocrites, which would arguably be beneficial for the opposition.
A vote is called. May wins or, as you put it, she's "allowed [...] off the rope, to fight another day and to kick the can further down the road towards the cliff edge on March 29th."
Wasn't this thread full of people whinging because Corbyn dared to take 20 minutes to talk about austerity a few days ago? Now he should be binning Brexit off as a talking point and going all out to trigger a vote he can't win?
Ah ok. I still think May winning a No Confidence Vote would actually be a boost for her, but makes less sense not to try if they can just do it again if her deal comes back and still gets rejected at a later date.
I'll stand corrected on your final point then as i thought it did.
On the number of letters however they're not that far off and a few have been added today. The ERG will probably be feeling confident of it coming soon enough.
There will be a bigger backlash if hundreds of thousands of people lose their jobs because we leave with no deal or a bad deal.
The supposed point of the Labour call for a no confidence motion is to call a GE so they can renegotiate, right? And May's trying to postpone this as long as possible to get her party to blink first, right? So what's the grand strategy when May calls a vote in February with a month till no deal.
Talk about being played like a fiddle when some people can swallow this shite.
And spoiler alert, the DUP aren't going to vote to put Gerry Adams' mate in number 10.
This is literally all to avoid having to get behind a second referendum because the election looks off the table.
Talk about being played like a fiddle when some people can swallow this shite.
And spoiler alert, the DUP aren't going to vote to put Gerry Adams' mate in number 10.
This is literally all to avoid having to get behind a second referendum because the election looks off the table.
So why aren't any of the names on that list pushing for the vote themselves?
I'm afraid in your rush to reply you've completely missed the point.
By not calling a vote they've already allowed May off the rope and to kick the can down the road. That's literally her plan, you can go back and watch the debate if you don't believe me, and it's the one Labour are stating that they have confidence in by not challenging her.
There's nothing stopping them calling a confidence vote, and then calling another one if and when her deal is rejected when she brings it back before Parliament. We'd just save a precious few months if it succeeded first time.
In fairness, I suspect it probably would because of the numbers in Parliament, but the FTPA gives a minority government 14 days from no confidence vote to pass a confidence vote. There's a slim possibility, probably only a theoretical one in reality, that you could probably get a pro-Remain/pro soft Brexit consensus through with something approaching a national unity government, but it would be unprecedented.
Theresa may is going to try and make her deal palletable by getting some concessions on the backstop.
That won't be enough to get it through parliament
Then she's going to have to have to with one of the camps to present the deal in a referendum.
The question is, when will it take place (it won't take place before March, but that means it's taking place in March!! And what will be on the ballet paper.
Brexit2 referendum is now inevitable
That won't be enough to get it through parliament
Then she's going to have to have to with one of the camps to present the deal in a referendum.
The question is, when will it take place (it won't take place before March, but that means it's taking place in March!! And what will be on the ballet paper.
Brexit2 referendum is now inevitable
Then why isn't Chuka or any of the other letter signers doing it then? Why aren't you asking them the same question?
The absolute cheek of Leadsom trying to paint this tactic as anything other than underhand.
I don't think I've seen parliament at such a low. This will never reach the news highlights but 99% of MPs who have spoken have been genuinly outraged at the tactics. Both sides.
Can any of our older members remember anything quite like this?
On the plus side my Tory MP (booo) gave her a rinsing, i may have to write a letter of congratulation
I don't think I've seen parliament at such a low. This will never reach the news highlights but 99% of MPs who have spoken have been genuinly outraged at the tactics. Both sides.
Can any of our older members remember anything quite like this?
On the plus side my Tory MP (booo) gave her a rinsing, i may have to write a letter of congratulation
I mean, this is literally 19 out of every 20 people just rinsing the government for their utter contempt of just about everyone in parliament and everyone in this country apart from the “gerronrivvittt” crew.
Ah, good, we're onto whataboutism.
There was my thinking the leader of the opposition should get some criticism for not opposing.
The obvious answer is that Corbyn is in charge of 257 MPs. If he's refusing to make supporting a no confidence motion Labour policy why would you think that there would be any realistic chance of it succeeding?
If you're genuinely asking why they're not getting as much criticism as a person who is in with a general chance of actually succeeding in stopping this madness then I don't know what to say.
I imagine it's something to do with the current leadership of the Labour party, the official opposition that control the whip for another 200-odd MPs, saying they won't back one yet.
Pointing out that this list of people who are so eager for Corbyn to call a vote of no confidence, can do it themselves and are clearly so desperate for it to happen that none of them are going to, is whataboutism?
A list of people who want Corbyn to call a vote of no confidence, when they can do it themselves and are clearly not going to, is whataboutism?
Me: Corbyn should be criticised for not opposing Brexit.
You: What about Umunna?
Err, yes. It's a textbook example. Not that I didn't answer your question either and you've ignored that, anyway. Being evasive and slippery doesn't suit you.
They want a vote of no confidence so badly, that they've all signed a bit of paper and had a photo of it tweeted out for them all to share. None of them. Not a single one of them has the guts (or looking at the numbers, utter fecking stupidity) to push for the vote in the Commons themselves, when they're just as entitled to do so and are clearly so genuinely behind the idea.
They're doing the very thing you're saying Corbyn is doing. The only difference is the latter is apparently the political coward for not calling for the vote for the exact same reasons as those on the list haven't done so.
The french wouldn't stand for this shit
I don't know if you've missed it, it might be easy to do given his record, but Corbyn is the LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION.
If you can't really work it why he, above anyone else, might be singled out for failing to oppose , or why a group of 35 backbench MPs don't think it's worth calling a vote of no confidence when it's not Labour policy then god fecking help you. What was it you said earlier about people and fiddles? You'd argue the sky is green if Corbyn said it was.
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So you've gone from saying they might as well call the vote (regardless of the DUP backing her) because even if May wins, 'So what?' - to saying the list of names who haven't got the guts to call the vote themselves are right not to bother with it, because May will win?
So what?
Two pirouettes and a grand pas de chat.
I don’t think she’s going to make any concessions. There’s no more negotiating here. What she will do is spend the next few days negotiating on other issues in exchange for Brexit votes.
There will be promises of jobs, more money going to the DUP, concessions to other MP’s on single issues important to them/their constituents.
Brexit negotiations are done and she knows it. She’s going to pull every fecking trick in the book to get the votes to save her oily skin.
May's next move will be a referendum, with the choice of her deal or no deal, in an attempt to scare remain support to her deal. It's the only logical choice she has left now.
Its the same, they voted for a useless wanker and hate it, uk voted for a useless wanker and hate it. The people get the govt they deserve.
Hear hear
Can I just point out that Labour are only doing what any opposition party should be doing and that is challenging the government.
Why should they try to force a confidence vote if they are not yet confident they can win it.
Their best tactic is to sit on their hands and let the government continue to unravel due to this self inflicted chaos.
I'll try one last time. If you still don't get it you never will:
1. Corbyn has nothing to lose by calling a vote of no confidence, because there is a realistic prospect that he will win it. With the declared support of the SNP, Lib Dems and Plaid Cmryu added to Labour votes there are divisions in the Conservative Party to win that vote. Labour might lose, but then it's on the likes of Soubry and Grieve to explain why they put party before country given what they've said to date.
2. If Corbyn calls that vote and May survives, there's nothing stopping him calling another vote of no confidence in 2 months time when May is defeated in the meaningful vote. If anything, precedent dictates that being defeated on such a key piece of legislation dictates a no- confidence vote is called.
3. There's no realistic prospect that a vote of no confidence could be passed without Labour's support so criticising Ummana for not motioning a symbolic vote himself is a completely different argument. It's at best deflection, and at worst you seem to be implying that Corbyn's authority and leadership is so weak that he'd either later decide to support that motion, or that Labour would reject the party's position on mass.
4. As Corbyn is leader of the opposition he should attract more criticism than a fecking backbencher for a failure to oppose demonstrably ruinous government policy.
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Ah yes, opposing government policy by *checks notes* going along with government policy.