He never imagined the British people were so utterly idiotic as to actually vote to leave the EU. He over estimated the British people.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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He never imagined the British people were so utterly idiotic as to actually vote to leave the EU. He over estimated the British people.
There isn't an empire anymore and what is more when there was Glasgow was deemed the second city of the Empire and did very well out of it. There is nothing the SNP would love more than for Scotland to go it alone. Whether that would be good news for their fishermen I don't know. But they could kiss goodbye to all the defence contracts that were awarded to Scotland as sweeteners in the last indyref at the expense of the poor folk of Portsmouth. BAE, Rolls Royce, Babcock and Thales would all struggle to keep operations going. So expect a big rise in unemployment.
They voted out and many of them did so because they felt it would further their own interests (jobs, wealth, less immigrants, etc.) and that of their country. Why else would they vote for it?
You have the right to complain when your county doesn't routinely vote in Tory governments.
It was a crazy miscalculation. He wanted to cement his position by lancing a boil within his own party and it was massively naive to bank on remain winning.
All I'm saying is that in the main, his time as leader was far less chaotic than what we have now and that he was more a far more charismatic statesman. I don't know how he'd have handled Brexit, nor if the EU would have dealt with him any differently.
...but I do feel TM lacks conviction in most of the decisions she makes and is nowhere near the speaker or thinker her predecessor was. Every time she answers a question it's just more waffle and hot air.
The EU has spent a lot of the UK's money on various development projects. I'm fine with that personally but it's not a Brexit issue. Once outside the EU then the UK parliament could spend the same, or more, or less, on development of the poorer regions/nations of the UK as it saw fit. EU development spending is of great importance to the poorer nations of the EU but not to the UK, as it's just our own money coming back.
Sorry, not quite true, EU spending is a Brexit issue for those that don't want to contribute to development of the poorer EU members, but that's a separate issue from the spending in the UK.
Doesn't get old indeed. He nicked that from a Danish 1935 campaign.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stauning_or_Chaos
Well, plenty actually took the route of 'Yeah it'll be damaging for the country, but we'll have our freedom!' so I think it's wrong to purely put it down to self interest. There was an air of 'feck it' about the entire vote, people reacting against the 'establishment' and buying in to the emotive leave campaign.
Those were factors for many of course, but I do think the whole vote is unique as even now there are lots of leave voters who would go down the no deal route knowing perfectly well it will be bad for the country in real terms. Tapping in to nationalist sentiment was a big part of why leave won.
That said, I wasn't denying that some people voted out of self interest, just that it will actually work out that way. Leaving won't create more wealth for anybody but perhaps a very select few who profit off chaos.
Sure, but from a Welsh perspective would Westminster have chosen to invest that money in to Wales? The EU focuses on helping develop poorer areas, of which Wales has many, whereas the UK doesn't necessarily function that way and will often invest the money wherever is most profitable.
Complain about what? You have your own a devolved parliament with all manner of powers, plus a say in the UK parliament, generous Barnett formula payments and you were given a vote on independence.
This was bound to be done
I think the EU have taken all possible outcomes into account for a long time and are better prepared for a no deal situation. In a way you are right about the approach of the UK government but their attitude all along is that if they leave they can keep all the benefits of the EU and taking none of the responibilities, which is still to this day the approach of the Labour party.
If they had accepted this was not possible and accepted the consequences then things may have been different. Also that they had accepted that the EU had the better cards but they couldn't admit this to the electorate.
If the UK leave the EU with no deal, that really does mean no deal and have no idea how the UK could cope with that. It won't be great for the EU but the effects will be significantly less than for the UK.
If the UK have no solution to the Irish border and leave on a no deal basis they become a totally separate country under totally different regulations and a non hard border would not be possible.
Ah, see what you mean. I'm left-leaning so support regional development but I doubt Boris or the like would to be honest. Then again who knows what colour EU governments might be in ten years time, they may all be right wing and the UK not, so I'm still not sure it's a Brexit issue.
Bookies shortening the odds on her winning tonight to 1.22
Fair enough. I guess it does satisfy the ideological delusions of a number that voted for it. Worth noting they are not a majority as the largest majority was non-voters.
None of that keeps us in the EU though does it?
Also, thanks for giving us a say in the UK parliament. Very generous.
She should win, the key question is by how much. Probably needs at least 2/3 of the Tory vote to be comfortable.
The Tories primarily are only interested in developing the areas that vote for them which always leaves the Northern regions neglected.
I'm not sure they're even interested in that to be honest, not if involves paying taxes.
Ben Bradley MP just said the difference between a 2nd vote on the leadership and a 2nd vote on brexit is that he didn't get to vote on the leadership last time.
I will just say it: Brexiteers are criminally stupid. The kind of stupid that should be made fun of, lest someone takes it for vision.
I will just say it: Brexiteers are criminally stupid. The kind of stupid that should be made fun of, lest someone takes it for vision.
Owen Paterson summed up the Tory problem with the backstop when he says the DUP don't accept the backstop and without the DUP there is no Tory government.
A non-hard border would be entirely possible - it just requires the two nations on either side of it to neglect to man it. Given that neither Ireland nor the UK want a hard border, this could simply have been delivered up as a fait accompli. The issue then becomes primarily a problem between Ireland and the EU, and the UK would be under no obligation to help them solve it.
The only reason it's an issue for the UK now is that it stands in the way of doing a deal we appear desperate to make. Had we started from the position of not expecting to do a deal, the Irish border would not have given the EU any leverage in the negotiations (in fact, quite the opposite as the EU would have been looking for us to help them solve the problem, so we would have been in the position to attach conditions to any such co-operation).
Hmmm, sound logic for a new referendum in my opinion. 1.2 million+ dead Brits got to vote in the referendum and well over a million 18 year olds didn't get the chance.
You had a vote in the Brexit Referendum - Scotland took part and 44% wanted to Leave so democratically you have had your say.
As for the rest this is what you do when you lose an argument, say something sarcastic and then disappear for the hills.
All that does it makes you sound really arrogant.
Popcorn time.
To brexiteers. I can live with that.
You can't belong to a group that is constantly represented by idiots like Ben Bradley saying blatantly daft things and expect me not to have an opinion on it.
Personally I suspect the DUP are quite enjoying their time in the limelight. They don't like the deal on the table, and they'll reject it, but that doesn't mean that they'll subsequently vote against the government in a confidence motion.
The DUP (Dramaqueen Unionist Party) should remember that whereas NI suffered as a whole during the troubles GB sacrificed many of its young men and civilians in the city bombings just to keep the word 'Northern' in their country's name. The reason the backstop is there is pure pragmatism. Nothing more. Any the notion the a UK government would just cut them adrift at a pen stroke having sacrificed so much to keep them in the UK is utter bollocks.
Perhaps TM should bung them another billion. Because that's what they really want. Then their politicians can spend even longer getting paid for doing jack shit in Stormont.
If the two countries have entirely different regulations it is not possible. The Uk want control of their borders which is supposedly one of the reason for Brexit, they can't have it both ways. Under a hard brexit the UK will not be covered by EU regulations and the EU will have not say as to what the UK get up to. This is a consequence of hard brexit , the UK again trying to renegue on their responibilities. It is not the EU's or Ireland's fault it is purely the UK's fault for leaving the EU.
everyone (incuding the EU) knows a no deal brexit is the worst possible outcome for everyone.
Are you serious? How does any of what you've written equate with "taking control of our borders"?
It's fine to have an opinion, I just think the blanket statement about the intelligence of Brexiteers is unfair.
There are some who voted simply in the spirit of xenophobia, the DM reading, Tommy supporting, OMFG GET THE FOREIGNERS OUT types. Nobody doubts their level of intellect.
...but there are those who have the right to fundamentally question whether or not their country remains part of a bureaucratic titan with increasing powers, often with ambitions beyond the customs union we voted into. There was no public say on Maastricht after all.
I'm staggered also by the lack of socialist/left wing voices who traditionally oppose the EU, Corbyn is one of them (Galloway another, sadly) and I'm often left scratching my head as to why a number of intelligent, progressive and liberal people are so enchanted by a mammoth right wing organisation.
Honestly, it looks like "we can just not have a hard border" is the equivalent of "armies of immigrants are pouring over the border" in the Trump/ICE threads. Keeps recurring, easily proven wrong and only unicorn solutions proposed to solve it.
Sorry, but it is quite obviously possible. In fact it requires effort and infrastructure to put a hard border in place, whereas it requires nothing at all not to.
Not having a hard border in a 'hard' Brexit scenario would certainly throw up a lot of issues, I suspect more around the movement of goods than people, but putting one in place also creates problems. The UK and Irish governments could decide that they'd rather be managing the problems arising from not having a hard border than managing the ones from putting such a border in place.
May is clutching at more straws than a masturbating scarecrow here
'Damaging for the country' doesn't equate to 'Damaging for me'. People always say shite like that, and claim on polls that they'd do it even if it hurt them personally, but as soon as its their family getting hurt they always about face quick as you like.