Indeed. A bit silly lumping different leave options, as if they are swappable or even acceptable compromises to various leave shades.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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The number of bitter "we won get over it" comments, combined with some nonsensical, grammatical incorrect arguments on social media are staggering. They usually have a dog or a Union Jack as their display picture.
Sending death threats to top it all off, politics has been invaded by fecking brainless hooligans with no idea of what they actually voted for.
Sending death threats to top it all off, politics has been invaded by fecking brainless hooligans with no idea of what they actually voted for.
The attitude reminds of how Littlefinger is described in Game of Thrones - that he doesn't care if the world is destroyed, provided he can be king of the ashes. Brexiteers don't care if the country is plunged into economic disaster - it's all about being on the 'winning side' as they see it.
Childish, stupid etc but we're not allowed to call a spade, a spade apparently.
They've been emboldened by a Prime Minister who has not shown one iota of interest in the 16.2m people who voted to remain.
You just did, didn't you?
Thanks.
Precisely. And it's not like 52% is a huge majority either, especially for a non-legally binding referendum. Cameron fecked up when he didn't specify a margin Leave had to win by to make it enforceable. Especially considering the magnitude of what people were voting for.
Nevertheless, given the fact that many of the leave voters were misinformed anti-establishment workers that wanted to send the government a message, xenophobic gammon driven by right wing ideologies and media manipulation or both; I can see a significant change in the way people vote this time given the utter shambles it has been.
It's like going into an operation without knowing any of the complications; when the surgeon tries to explain it to you, you simply scream 'OPERATION MEANS OPERATION' without listening, and then waking up with a limb missing.
Well,
1) Polls are one thing, voter turnout quite another. Remain was polling higher before the referendum, but leaver turnout was higher. And..
2) That's grouping all the leave scenarios together. Some of which are unattainable and wouldn't be in a second referendum. Like "leave on another deal". What other deal? What if the options are May's Deal, No Deal or Cancel? Look's like cumulative No Deal + May's Deal is par with Cancel.
Do you not think leavers will coalesce towards whatever Leave option remains?
35% is extremely low for a pure remain option, that should be a bigger concern than the split among the opposition, down 13% since the referendum even though the handling of Brexit has been a public disaster.
I genuinely think i read somewhere it doesnt work like this after the extension
As i replied. I read it long time ago in this thread. And yes 99.99% is just a personal opinion based on that the UK is not ready pratically and legally for no deal. So if May deal is voted down and the extension is too short, revokation is thd only outcome. Again and opinion likd many others here
Wasn't that 'remain' against an undefined 'leave'? Defining clear categories of 'leave' is bound to change some people's preferences.
Whilst I think it is a bit pathetic, I also think Brexit fatigue could be a thing.
Think it's more to do with the question asked and the options given tbh.
I reckon the most important swing in a second referendum will come from the young (and otherwise) people who didn't bother voting the first time. I'd expect a bigger turnout as % of the electorate.
The first referendum had the momentum of a protest vote against the establishment, so leavers were more motivated about turning out than remainers. Now, with the country heading off a cliff and the political establishment in tatters, the protest vote will be for remain. And that will motivate people to the polls more. At least that's my take on things.
On another note, great turnout today and congrats to all those that went
While I am not in favour of a second referendum I agree that you make a number of good points.
Tom Watson is a fecking snake. He's currently rattling his spare skin at my enemies, but I wouldn't trust his gluteness eye near my unguarded last meal.
Just read that. It also needs mentioning that these were aimed at a 77y.o. woman, too.
I've seen remainers with ethnic names ripped into as well. Like Will Self said, "Maybe all leavers are not racist, but all racists are leavers.
It's ridiculous, the numbers of leavers who claim democracy has spoken and we have to follow it through, but they don't see another vote as being democratic or valid.
The thing Bastani is being, seemingly deliberately, dishonest about is presenting this as a straightforward leave-remain question, and acting like it shows a growth in the leave vote. For actual recent polling of this, remain is ahead in almost every single poll:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...n-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...he-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...-remaining-in-the-eu-which-would-you-support/
You cannot roll the mutually exclusive leave options, where people get to ignore of aspects of leaving that they don't like (in other words, reality) and pick their personal favourite, and put it up against the most extreme remain option (revoke article 50 without a referendum), and act like it's comparable with the above set of polls. The poll is useful to get a sense of where the plurality of public opinion lies in terms of defined paths forward, not as voting intention on a referendum.
As a further example, here's a poll from the same pollster, dated last week, and commissioned by "Leave Means Leave", that shows remain in the lead:
https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-con...eans-Leave_Brexit-Poll_March-2019_updated.pdf
It's fair enough to say it's concerning remain aren't further ahead given what you mention, or that Leave could quite conceivably win a second referendum, they could, but he has to go the step further and present it in bad faith.
Didn't 4 million people in the last few days signed a petition to just stop Brexit ? I get the arguments for a second referendum(Although the same argument apply for having a 3rd, 4th and so on)and I would vote remain if there was one. But within the last week people have moved away from a second referendum to just stopping Brexit. Which is beyond stupid.
As funding rules were broken, lies were spouted and people were woefully ill-informed for the first vote, there is a huge difference between votes 1 and 2, than there would be between vote2 and vote 3 and subsequent votes.
It would be churlish to suggest otherwise.
Why is he there... Shouldnt he be up in morcombe campaigning for the local elections
Yeah your right but 1) welcome to British democracy 2)Not of this is a reason to hold a second referendum. But that wasn't really my point, we can't say leave hate democracy while 4 million people just signed a petition to stop Brexit because bad.
The idea one side is for democracy(Whatever the feck that means anymore)and one isn't. Is simply not true.
I think we are in agreement.
I also think the petition is more like a tool to put the brakes on the driver-less train, leading to a second referendum.
If it isn't stopped, there would be zero chance of a referendum.
One just hopes that among the million or so protesters there aren't a load of idiots hitting the booze as we speak and preparing for a good old-fashioned riot. If there are then today's march will lose more votes than it will gain. Pity the weather's not worse really, that would sort it out.
I thought it was remainers, not leavers.
Not really, these people are part of the 16m that voted to remain, who have never accepted they lost.
It was always going to be a No deal/ Leave, or a revoke A50/Remain option , all other so called options are the real 'unicorns'.
The EU was never going to give the UK a 'good deal', because politically it was not in their interests to do so. May knew that, hence her "No Deal is better than a bad deal" speech at Lancaster house; however she has screwed it up in a manner almost beyond belief and remain voters now realise they have to give up on the may be a soft Brexit, maybe a second referendum, Norway + etc. and are now just saying to May "you made a mess of it, so do the decent thing revoke A50 then step down!
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There are loons on every side, the only people that don't see that are the loons themselves.
I understand why people signed and it worked in terms of getting headlines but any other argument way from a second referendum is just awful. And it is tricky because a ton of people on the leave really don't give two shites about democracy.
I don't live far from Central so I went down to the march for a bit. Felt like there were more than a million people there! There was barely any space to move, so after standing around I went to Hyde Park for a while then left, but a lot of people stayed there.
I love a good banal statement.
Well-argued reply. Keep it up.
Great laughing smiley, you're on a roll.
He should do what he likes. He's not in the government and doesn't risk losing almost half of his base by being there.
He'll ride whatever wave of popularity he can I suspect, hiding in the shadows of having an opinion until he's unleashed to chonk allover the slight left of the right of the centre ground.
Like a nice thick slop of vanilla ice cream.
Not good, not bad, but very much all over the place.
I would love for the petition to get to 18 million, that way we don’t have to hear about the 17.4m. It runs for 6 months ao surely if it was plugged enough it would have a chance if only people that signed it could get 2-3 people to do it as well, it would snowball from there. Unicorns are nice.
That’s older than Theresa May itself
As this may as well be the Westminster thread these days