Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
CA_vampire said:
Politicians sometimes seem stupid, but they are not really stupid.

Is it possible that all political parties have agreed (long time ago!) that leaving the EU is not a good idea and it will not happen, and all the drama of the past two years is just theatrics?
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I asked the above a few days ago. It still seems plausible to me.

I don't like conspiracy theories, but the truth is that we have no idea what they discuss and decide behind closed doors. And all this voting by the British Parliament and these extensions by the EU...
 
Mb194dc said:
It's pretty farcical, anyone really believe they won't just extend forever if no other choice?

They should have just stuck to the 29th of March and forced the UK to make a decision on something.

In terms of that decision, nothing changed since December, we still have the same awful options, the "deal", no deal or no Brexit.
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We've exhausted a lot of options and we've removed the immediate time pressure. We barely have enough time for a referendum.

I can see why the EU leaders weren't pleased with Maceon's little performance. I think the EU wanted to allow for ample time to have a referendum or for the whole to collapse. The longer this goes on the more we see the damage of Brexit, businesses will continue to leave or downsize because the uncertainty has been extended.

Perhaps if the government finally decides on a 2nd ref, we can ask for a further extension, we'd certainly have more justification than the previous two times. I just hope Macron winds his neck in.
 
EU should have just said extension to 31st October and if you havent agreed the deal by then you go with no deal.

Its time to end this nonsense one way or the other.
 
Rooney24 said:
EU should have just said extension to 31st October and if you havent agreed the deal by then you go with no deal.

Its time to end this nonsense one way or the other.
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The problem is that a no deal wouldn't end this nonsense at all. The UK would then look to negotiate a trade deal with the EU, the EU would insist on terms like the backstop still being present and then we're back at the same point once more, except everyone is suffering financially and relationships between the various parties involved have broken down. A no deal doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes it harder to solve.
 
CA_vampire said:
I asked the above a few days ago. It still seems plausible to me.

I don't like conspiracy theories, but the truth is that we have no idea what they discuss and decide behind closed doors. And all this voting by the British Parliament and these extensions by the EU...
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I've thought and said the same but in truth our political parties and politicians could never agree or keep such a secret. Perhaps.
 
CA_vampire said:
I asked the above a few days ago. It still seems plausible to me.

I don't like conspiracy theories, but the truth is that we have no idea what they discuss and decide behind closed doors. And all this voting by the British Parliament and these extensions by the EU...
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I doubt it very much. Its simple realpolitik from the EU. A hard Brexit is a disaster for them also so they want to avoid it at all costs, especially given the general global economic outlook at the moment. The big dog in the EU, Germany, is especially feeling the pinch so there's zero surprise at the outcome. It will get extended again in October from the EU side too if it best serves the political and economic interests of the EU (it highly likely will), you can be sure of that.
 
EU: We cannot renegotiate the withdrawal agreement
David Davis: Let's renegotiate the withdrawal agreement

This happened today by the way. Is there a more obstinate group of people than Brexiters?
 
I think we might get a confirmatory referendum on the "deal". So we can accept leaving on those terms now or remain. Can't see support in parliament for much else.

I would prefer if they just admitted the options are abysmal and revoked A50 without even bothering with further votes. Without some pressure on the government that won't happen though.

I was surprised by the initial extension without them attaching really strict terms to it, I think that was a mistake by the EU27, just letting it drag on and on.
 
horsechoker said:
We've exhausted a lot of options and we've removed the immediate time pressure. We barely have enough time for a referendum.

I can see why the EU leaders weren't pleased with Maceon's little performance. I think the EU wanted to allow for ample time to have a referendum or for the whole to collapse. The longer this goes on the more we see the damage of Brexit, businesses will continue to leave or downsize because the uncertainty has been extended.

Perhaps if the government finally decides on a 2nd ref, we can ask for a further extension, we'd certainly have more justification than the previous two times. I just hope Macron winds his neck in.
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I'm not sure we've exhausted even one option. Removing the time pressure has opened them all up again.
 
Mb194dc said:
I think we might get a confirmatory referendum on the "deal". So we can accept leaving on those terms now or remain. Can't see support in parliament for much else.

I would prefer if they just admitted the options are abysmal and revoked A50 without even bothering with further votes. Without some pressure on the government that won't happen though.

I was surprised by the initial extension without them attaching really strict terms to it, I think that was a mistake by the EU27, just letting it drag on and on.
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It seems they're terrified of no deal and don't want to appear as an aggressor. Merkel's comments appeared as an olive branch in this regard. Putting on a hard time limit and appearing to bully the UK through conditions (in the eyes of a great faction of the British electorate) would be playing into the ERG's hands and make a hard Brexit much more likely, it seems to me anyway.
 
Mb194dc said:
I think we might get a confirmatory referendum on the "deal". So we can accept leaving on those terms now or remain. Can't see support in parliament for much else.
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This would be sensible. Stick some stuff in the Political Declaration about workers rights and consumer/environmental standards to appease Labour and then bolt on a confirmatory vote - this deal or remain. I reckon that would get through the commons.

The ERG will bang on about it being a "false choice", but the EU aren't reopening the WA.
 
Wibble said:
Totally agree.

This sort of attitude is why so many people around the world hate us. We rampaged around taking what we wanted, when we wanted it and now can't even be bothered to take any responsibility for past actions.
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It would unreasonable to hold the sins of the British Empires past against modern Brits. But the ignorance displayed by some is frustrating. I can forgive a lack of knowledge on other parts of the world, we can't all be informed on every troubled area of the world. But Northern Ireland is part of the same country these people live in and yet so many of them seem to know or care little about it.
 
stevoc said:
It would unreasonable to hold the sins of the British Empires past against modern Brits. But the ignorance displayed by some is frustrating. I can forgive a lack of knowledge on other parts of the world, we can't all be informed on every troubled area of the world. But Northern Ireland is part of the same country these people live in and yet so many of them seem to know or care little about it.
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They know they just don't care. Most of them have been around long enough to recall the bombings or the news around it.
 
afrocentricity said:
They know they just don't care. Most of them have been around long enough to recall the bombings or the news around it.
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Sadly with a lot of those who voted leave that will be the case. Anyone from their 30's-40's onwards should have had an idea of the implications.
 
Theresa May said
"Nothings agreed until everything is agreed"
"No deal is better than a bad deal"
"We will leave the EU on the 29th March 2019 at 11.oopm"
"I will not delay Brexit longer than Aril 12th"
"I will not delay Brexit longer than 30th June"
"I will not delay Brexit beyond 31st Oct"
"I will not delay Brexit beyond …(fill in your own dates)

The EU said
"We cannot negotiate on Free trade until a WA is ratified by the UK"


I think Theresa talks too much!!
 
stevoc said:
Anyone from their 30's-40's onwards should have had an idea of the implications.
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That is true, however this time I think public opinion in the rest of the UK will force any UK government (of whatever persuasion) to let the Irish sort it out themselves. I cannot see that there will be any massive public support for deploying British troops on the island of Ireland... ever again I should think!
 
spiriticon said:
And for the first time in my life I can totally understand why some people choose not to vote. What a waste of time.
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What exactly is a waste of time? Assuming you're a leave voter you voted for parliament to take us towards leaving the EU as they see fit and that's the process underway. You didn't vote for a timeframe or for them to do so with reckless haste
 
Smores said:
What exactly is a waste of time? Assuming you're a leave voter you voted for parliament to take us towards leaving the EU as they see fit and that's the process underway. You didn't vote for a timeframe or for them to do so with reckless haste
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Reckless haste? They've had nigh-on 3 years to sort it out!

3 years to find a plan that works for everyone and all I'm hearing is no no no no no no no, even at the other softer decent alternatives.

Shocking stuff.

I hear the word 'compromise' bandied about 20 times a day but nobody, brexiteer or remainer, is moving from their original view. All talk, no action. The state of it all.
 
Sassy Colin said:
She's being an idiot. It was a compromise between the nations that want us to feck off ASAP, and those that want us to stay in the EU. She should know that anyway.
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Oh she does, but her entire career is based off of getting inside scoops from Conservative MPs. She knows which way her bread is buttered and is very keen to keep it that way.
 
spiriticon said:
Reckless haste? They've had nigh-on 3 years to sort it out!

3 years to find a plan that works for everyone and all I'm hearing is no no no no no no no, even at the other softer decent alternatives.

Shocking stuff.

I hear the word 'compromise' bandied about 20 times a day but nobody, brexiteer or remainer, is moving from their original view. All talk, no action. The state of it all.
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Why is your vote a waste though? The process is still underway, when you voted there was no timeline.

Shock horror brexit is complicated
 
Smores said:
Why is your vote a waste though? The process is still underway, when you voted there was no timeline.

Shock horror brexit is complicated
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There was a timeline. It should have ended 29th March. Staying or leaving.

And yes, if we decide to stay, which tbh I don't really care about anymore, then 2016 was a horrendous waste of time and money and I'd like an apology from the politicians and I will stay at home for the next GE.

If we decide to leave with a soft brexit, i question why it's taken 3 years and utter national humiliation to get to that point.

Either way, my faith in UK politics is utterly destroyed.
 
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spiriticon said:
There was a timeline. It should have ended 29th March. Staying or leaving.
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Strictly speaking there wasn't. The timeline was instituted when May decided to trigger article 50 before knowing what the Commons would agree to (in hindsight a huge mistake). No such date had been determined when you cast your vote. I think if remainer and leaver can agree on anything though it's that the process has been one long and ever present shitshow.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Strictly speaking there wasn't. The timeline was instituted when May decided to trigger article 50 before knowing what the Commons would agree to (in hindsight a huge mistake). No such date had been determined when you cast your vote. I think if remainer and leaver can agree on anything though it's that the process has been one long and ever present shitshow.
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Parliament voted to trigger Article 50, not just May herself. And besides, you need to trigger it before the EU will even start negotiate. You won't get an idea of what deal you may or may not get if you don't even start it.

What was needed in the 2 years after A50 was triggered is a bit more fecking structure and REAL compromise, not just politicians voting for their ideal scenario and voting down everything else.
 
Walrus said:
He is right though, in that most people (on both sides) didnt really consider the Irish situation when casting their vote. Most people who say otherwise are probably just lying.

In terms of its impact now and whether you should care about it or not, of course you should. But conversely, its not something that directly affects most of the voting population (in their eyes) so its not really at the top of their priority list when it comes to Brexit. It is however, a strong and convenient argument that remainers can use - but honestly if the sides were reversed, im not sure there would be that much difference.

To put it another way, if it transpired that the only way to maintain the GFA was to leave the EU, how many remain voters can put their hands on their hearts and say that that would change their vote? I dont think I can.
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Speak for yourself, I and everyone over here who I know voted for remain were considering the border as part of the vote. Even some leave voters admitted it preyed on their minds before voting leave.
 
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