So he can come second, third or even fourth this time.
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So he can come second, third or even fourth this time.
I don't think Corbyn has grasped the fact that he's supposed to be leader of the opposition. If he's waiting to have a majority in parliament to be able to do anything that means he he'll be waiting for ever and may as well go home. If he had a majority he'd already be PM.
He did have the arithmetic to stop no deal but that would have meant taking a decision. Can limp lettuces take a decision?
That's a different question. My point was that the people who bemoan Labour for calling for another general election seem to do so on the basis that it doesn't stop the problem of Brexit. And calling for a second referendum does? If Brexit is to be stopped, then it's going to require a change in the numbers in the House of Commons. That can only be achieved via a general election.
If there's a GE i'd hope they campaign on promising a yes or no referendum, they've suggest as much anyway.
I can certainly see why some want the decision delayed a few week, with every passing day the bullshit coming out of Boris and Hunt makes Brexit sound more and more ridiculous. Labour go flat out remain and instead of them explaining how they'll deliver brexit they'll just focus on Labours position and rile up their base.
Where have you been for the past three years, all we have heard from all politicians in the HoC is more and more ridiculous and that includes Corbyn.
Even now all he has been saying is putting any deal approved by parliament to be put to the people. There is no deal that has been or will be approved by parliament and furthermore there is only one and will only ever be one withdrawal agreement.
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Exactly my point, It would be useful to expose that they're the same old shit rather than as claimed 'fresh' approaches before giving them a chance to just close in on attacking Labour. Tories arguing amongst themselves and calling each other bullshit merchants is far more likely to win the doubtful leavers over than if it's coming from the opposition.
But the Tories have been fighting amongst themselves since day one and have been pretty split down the middle. There was no-one more determined to get Brexit over the line than May but she was seen as a Remainer by Leavers and a Leaver by Remainers. Any politician seen as being against Brexit is seen as a traitor. But Remainers have got no-one to put their position.
Now you're going to get an avid Brexiteer who will more than likely cock it all up and the UK'll be out before you know it.
The bullshit has been there since day one and as far as I can see they still believe the bullshit.
Corbyn has to be more courageous and take the bull by the horns - if he really wants to Remain - because if he still goes along with Brexit and the public still want Brexit they're not going to follow Labour as a Brexit party and nor will the remainers. He's a bit like how people view May.
I don’t think that’s true. There were already a sizeable majority against no deal Brexit, but they couldn’t decide on an acceptable alternative. If it actually came down to the wire and the soft Brexit people suddenly have to either face a no deal or back a second referendum, there’s a good chance enough will capitulate and push the decision back to the public. If a 2nd ref has strong enough backing from the opposition.
possibly... but if you were pro brexit and in charge of the conservative party wht would you let that happen?
far more logical to switch the policy to hard brexit - get the membership to de-select anybody who wont vote for that (put farrage in a safe seat and let him stand as a conservative) and fight a GE on a "clean break / managed exit / (economic clusterfek)"
better to have the fight as a GE than as a referendum I think simply because i am not sure the EU would grant the time needed for a second ref - I mean how long would it take - I think they said a minimum 6 months - and thats based on there being no legal challenges to the question etc (and lets be honest there probably would be)
I simply dont see that it would be viable to put brexit off for up to another year to roll the dice on a 2nd referendum... and certainly from an EU point of view I suspect the certainty of a no deal (or remain) quickly would be preferable to another year of brexit taking up their time
I think the EU would (reluctantly) still allow time for a 2nd ref, but there’s no need for the new PM to allow either that or a new GE. They control parliamentary business and can just run down the clock until we crash out.
Literally the only card left is the threat of a no confidence vote backed by the Remain Tories. But then do the likes of Hoey and Field back no confidence knowing it might also stop Brexit? And even if there’s a no confidence vote, do the EU suddenly offer a rudderless UK an extension that no-one has requested because there’s no government to request it?
I think we might genuinely be fecked this time.
even if they do - is there a government to accept it?
Exactly. It feels like we’re at the point where if the no-deal Tories like Boris want Brexit more than they want power, then it’s in their hands. Ironic really that Boris’ ambition might be the only thing that ends up saving the country from catastrophe..
possibly - personally im banking on his incompetence to somehow gash it up but yeah in reality it could well come down to if boris is prepared to force a no deal... part of me thinks he wouldnt and besides he will probably just delegate decisions to his cabinet - but another part of me imagines his cabinet which probably consists of Mogg (treasury?) Mcvey (brexit?) Davies (foreign?) and then I think not only is a hard brexit probable but they may well declare war on germany and france as wellExactly. It feels like we’re at the point where if the no-deal Tories like Boris want Brexit more than they want power, then it’s in their hands. Ironic really that Boris’ ambition might be the only thing that ends up saving the country from catastrophe..
We very shortly will, for the first time, have a pro-Brexit leader in charge of the Conservative party, in addition to our pro-Brexit leader already in charge of the Labour party. Looked at that way Brexit looks inevitable, but I'm with Kentonio, I still think that at the last moment enough individual MPs will break ranks with their party leaders, and vote possibly for a second referendum, or I would add for the negotiated deal. Personally I would prefer the negotiated deal, as I think Remain would lose a second referendum and there would be too much danger of a hard Brexit to follow.
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Corbyn has been a euro-sceptic for decades, it's well known.
The Brexit lot are somehow managing to revive the GATT24 fallacy this morning. I thought this has been proven as bullshit about 2 months ago, yet they are back at it big time in what is clearly a co-ordinated ploy.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/boris-johnson-mark-carney-gatt-24/
ARGGGGG!!! The stupid!! It burns!!
Not only that Jeremy has been a lifelong 'against/oppose' man; the EU, the Tories, New Labour, in fact anyone or anything that didn't chime with his form of socialism. The Brexit situation was tailor-made for such as Jeremy, but not his party!
Jeremy still might get his wish of a GE early in the New Year, the irony will be that when his strategy works and he has forced a GE, his support has gone too... story of his life really!
It is difficult not to conclude they have all gone stark, raving mad. Typical end days of a cult.
I imagine they think they have to come out with all this now to prepare the ground for when no deal happens and they can all blame the EU for it being so grim. Knowing the electorate it will probably work too.
Yeah, now that they are responsible for the shiteshow, they will blame the EU when it all inevitably ends in tears. I do think though that can only fool a minority.
Yes I know, I'm trying to get through to the remainers who also are members of the Corbyn fan club that they've picked a wrong-'un.
When push comes to shove, centrists would rather back the far right.
The annoying this is that Corbyn being PM doesn't mean he can do what he wants.
The hysteria behind the possibility of him becoming PM is hilarious. He’s become this legendary boogeyman for adults.
What’s amazing is this fear mongering sources largely from the party who’ve done more damage than anyone in recent history and have placed the nation in its biggest constitutional crisis since the Second World War.
And I don't even consider myself far left of the spectrum, I have no personal affinity for Corbyn, I've had a go at him numerous times even said we should stick a fork in him.
The idea he would be worse than the last decade of Tory governments is laughable. Any idea he has would still have to go through parliament. These bastards have got to go.
The idea he would be worse than the last decade of Tory governments is laughable. Any idea he has would still have to go through parliament. These bastards have got to go.
But what is equally laughable is that the Labour Party can't find a better quality politician to lead them. Opportunity of a lifetime and they put Corbyn as their frontman... seriously?
Who would you suggest that isn’t more of the same?
Blame the members. And to be honest, looking at who he was up against, not hard to see why. I am voting in the next contest just to play my part in getting him out. But will have him before the feckin Tories any day of the week.
I don't know who would be in the frame and hadn't even heard of Corbyn before 2015. Surely they must have someone who has more sparkle, intelligence and charisma than him. If they haven't one wonders what the rest must be like.
Beating the Tories in the state they are should be easy with the right leader. If I was still living in the UK I would seriously be thinking of voting Labour but not unless they were pro-EU and not unless Corbyn was gone.
It would be a waste of money and resources on the blairites.
We live in hope.
So basically, you wouldn't be voting labour?
They could always change leader and stop following Corbyn's wish to leave.
You would support a John McDonnell-led Labour?
Surely there's a wider choice than that. Although like the Tories there seems to be no choice except which idiot is the least bad. Grim.