Hang on - John Mcdonald went to public school?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Brexit isn't really a dent against democracy more the combination and result of decades long right wing policies and a out of date parliamentary system.
I guess McDonald and Corbyn must learned something while been there.
I want a democratic member based Labour Party, if some former public school boys socialists are the the best route to that I'll take it.
Probably will drop "Unionist" and change their name to the Conservative and Brexit Party soon enough.
There were quite a few more
Pah - thats nothing - look at where diane abbot sends her kids
proper socialist
Is this another case of some being more equal than others.
All in favour of democracy, not direct democracy
Where are you trying to head towards? Yes it would be great if everyone had a happy life, loads of money etc. Don't see anything that Labour is suggesting is going to get you there.
I've never counted on anyone else nor did I expect anyone else to help me get to wherever I wanted to be.
And he got Es in his A Levels!!!
Looks like Piers Corbyn got the brains of the family
That post is genuinely Tory 101. I hear it all the time, especially the last part from colleagues who have very wealthy parents.
The inability to recognise ones privilege.
What do you expect from a socialist.
But you have been helped by many who paid your tuition fees and by a lot who helped you during your professional life whether as peers or subalterns. I'm being pedantic but these should never be ignored.
Except if you read my earlier post that I didn't have wealthy parents. My father was even treasurer of the local Labour party in the 50s until he found out someone was stealing from the fund.
Of course, but building the right team around you is part of it. As for fees the amount of tax I've paid in the UK has more than made up for that .
But if people didn't pay for you beforehand you wouldn't be in that position, there are plenty of people that have the same desire and same abilties who didn't had the same opportunity due to systemic circumstances. The reality is that we are all the products of a system, none of us made itself.
How ?
I didn't mention Corbyn or McDonald in my first post. Look if Paul wants to join the workers movement then I might listen to his views so more until then I'm not take too seriously his thoughts on the Labour Party.
It was just a question of passing an entrance exam, anyone of any background could have taken it, those that didn't obtain the required %age had to pay.
Someone else always pays even for state education or people out of work are financed by those paying taxes.
One could argue the opposite, why should high earners pay more than low earners - everyone being equal and all that, I don't agree with that but..
You said you wish you had not engaged with somebody based on the fact he attended public school
How ?
I didn't mention Corbyn or McDonald in my first post. Look if Paul wants to join the workers movement then I might listen to his views so more until then I'm not take too seriously his thoughts on the Labour Party.
I mean besides coming over
If you just want to listen to the views of your own echo chamber and insist that people must "join the workers movement" before you take their views into consideration you again sound "a little biased" though this time with the added incredulity of the implication that its in anyway good for the labour party to restrict its views to such a narrow perspective and to dismiss the views of people who previously voted labour - how labour could ever expect to win an election and govern the whole country with such views is to me simply baffling
As long as you agree with this fact, then we are on the same page when it comes to that particular topic.
As long as you agree with this fact, then we are on the same page when it comes to that particular topic.
Of course, it starts from the day people are born, doctors/midwife/hospital - someone else paid for that.
Blair has admitted the first thing he did was go to the papers, what other labour leader was ever backed by the sun?
yes - but you said labour would not be allowed to win
Of course logically you go to the mainstreem media and try to get your policies shown in a preferential light - better still you have policies that appeal to people outside your core supporters as your trying to win a majority... and labour won which you said they cant????
But you said Labour wouldnt be allowed to win now - so how are they they going to be stopped???? who is pulling the strings in the background to make it impossible that if they put forward proposals and got a coherant message out there that they would be prevented from winning?
thats what you said and Im simply not sure who or how they are going to subvert the democratic process? - now obviously they don't have to with the current incompetents shooting themselves in the foot over and over again but your point was a broader one so who is going to stop labour ever having power and how?
Why not ? Or at least working place democracy ? (You don't have to answer I already know why)
Considering the current system is lowering life expectancy, is the cause of rising inequality, causing the rise in people using food banks. And then if we talk about the rest of the world it's even worse(Plus again the current system is killing the earth).
Living a happy life and having loads of money are two different things. I want is a country where working class and poor people can have some control and power in their lives.
.Where they can have more free time do as they please.
.Education as a end itself and not as means of getting a career and being in debt.
.Fully funed NHS
.A country that doesn't sell arms but kill Yemenis children.
That's just a few of the many things we could actually do in this country today. We really could achieve so much more than this - "I've never counted on anyone" Thatcherite shite.
There's no point going into this as it's barely beyond a right wing meme.
when it comes to the media in this country especially they control the electorate.
For example, Diane Abbot is still ridiculed over a simple mistake that she made during the 2017 General election, a simple slip of the tongue. The media coverage of said slip was vicious and 2 years later she is referred to as ‘dangerous’ if you control the print in this country, you control the voters.
Look at the Tories too. They have stolen millions of pounds in pension money over the years, my parents for example are 65 and 70 years old and both still work full time. Nothing gets mentioned or brought up about it.
On BBC question time a few months ago Clare Perry outright called the leader of the opposition an anti-Semite with zero backlash, zero media coverage etc
Saying they won’t be allowed to win an election was probably a bit much in retrospect but the point isn’t wrong. You can replace Corbyn with anybody and while the unfair, Tory led media are here they will never ever win a General election. Is that the same as not being allowed? Probably not to be fair, but it is almost like putting a cookie on an island surrounded by shark infested water, with snipers everywhere or something and being told of course you can eat the cookie, you just have to swim to it.
That’s such a bad analogy, I’ve just woken up, need coffee
I knew there was a reason to keep you off the ignore list.
Although I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with being a bigoted against people who went to public school. Thinking some more about it, I'll be honestly I think I might really prejudice against billionaires, just don't like the look of them to be honest.
Things must be bad if your calling me bias.
He doesnt sound like a very good treasurer.
The head of the local Labour Party stole the money and he had the keys of the safe.
As I said any sensible idea would have been welcome from anyone. If someone asked me to design an aircraft engine I would recommend that they didn't listen to me.
Life expectancy has only fallen very recently, 120 years ago you were lucky to get past 50. Life expectancy in certain parts of the world has increased dramatically.
Perhaps under a socialist system we can live until 200.
According to Corbyn's brother it's the sun's fault.
I didn't have any money at various times - didn't eat.
Of course they are different things, just two examples. Working class and poor people have some control and power, they get to vote. You will soon see what some them have voted for. Not blaming just them, rich and poor alike.
Strange, all the people who worked for me had more free time than I ever did, and in France they were working 35 hours a week.
Education and NHS totally agree but as I've said before someone has to pay for it. Corbyn wants the rich and corporate tax-avoiders to pay for it but not increase contributions from the rest of the population.
If under the Corbyn socialist system you get rid of the rich people and rich companies, who pays for it then. Perhaps everyone would be willing to pay 40% tax.
Agree about the arms sales too.
Hard work is a right wing meme?
Democracy in the work place isn't about listening to ideas. As for the aircraft I literally have no idea what your on about ?
Great!
Didn't know you were a fan of Chinese Commuist Party. Anyway a lot these peope are now going to face the endresult of our current system climate change.
Whenever did I say this ?
Er......ok. I actually don't know a lot about Corbyn personal life (I don't really care)
Well that bad time in your life, right ? And fact others are going throuh the same and on a bigger scale we've seen in decades is also bad. We should be against people not having enough money to eat, right ? Unless your saying well I spent times in my life not having money to eat, so its not a big deal today. Which ok whatever.
Strong unions and worker power. Capitalism isn't just shit for workers it's also somewhat shite for capitalists/management as well.
What do you mean rid of rich people and rich companies ? The tax policy in the 2017 manfesto wasn't particular radical, a lot of the funding was coming from a national investment bank. Corbyn is a socalist but if he were to win the next election(Big if I know) he wouldn't be turning Britian into a socalist state.
No idea you've never need help from anyone - who builds the hospitals you've used, the roads you drive on, the school you went to etc etc.
Still at least we agree that brown kids in Yemen shouldn't be killed. Thats something.
Strong Unions like the 1960s?
If Corbyn did win the next election ... no socialism ok - you never answered my question a few days ago about this N.I.B - whose money is it?
You're starting to be obtuse and avoiding obvious points.
So end of the day, no capitalism , no socialism , how will the world work?
You can dismantle the whole system if you like, the Tory party can disappear forever, who cares but you've got to have a realistic alternative , just like Brexit, break everything but have no solution to replace it.
Or even just one's plain, old luck, which plays a huge part in achieving anything in life. I really like Warren Buffets story about winning the 'Ovarian lottery'.
Or those who have a sh!t life, do nothing about it and we'll all put it down to bad luck. That's sorted.
No we don't. I didn't say successful people have no input in it, just that luck plays a huge part.
Equally, people who have a shit life can do something about it, but not that much. Many of the variables that make a real diffrence to your life chances are set at birth.
To an certain extent but one could just do nothing, moan about people who are better off than them, not make an effort to do better and expect other people to sort their lives out for them.
And I'm not talking about people with physical or mental disabilties who should be cared for by the state.
People should pay more tax and get a better benefit and health service for the less fortunate but even Corbyn won't suggest increasing taxes for the general population because he's scared of losing votes. Then those same people will be moaning about how poor the welfare and health service is. Someone else always has to pay for it.
what ?
Are you asking if French unions were strong in the 1960's(You never told me the time period of when you were working in France)
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/05/how-beautiful-it-was/
https://peg.primeeconomics.org/policybriefs/template-krh2j
https://newsocialist.org.uk/a-socialist-bank-labours/
You've brought up Corbyn brother and something to do with the sun ? And said people will live until their 200 years old under socalism when I mentioned life expectancy going down.
I literally have no idea what your on about here. I've said a Corbyn govermemt wouldn't turn Britian into a socalist country(It would be a step closer). But I've also said that because capitalism is doing the whole killing the earth thing, ideally we should move towards socialism.
I'm a socialist who realises the only gain for the left at the moment is a left social democracy(With potentially a radical future). This is why I support the Labour Party.
I'm a socialist who realises the only gain for the left at the moment is a left social democracy(With potentially a radical future). This is why I support the Labour Party.
Indeed mate.
Indeed mate.
No I meant UK in the 1960s when it had so many problems. I was working in France in this decade.
What I was getting at is how is life expectancy is going to improve under a socialist regime? You said capitalism was killing the planet. I said what are you intending on doing instead.
So the NIB is a government owned bank using public money presumably paid by taxes (of whom?) and filtered through the private bank sector to SME's preferably of the co-operative type.
The SME's I ran obtained finance and funding through the private sector and through the ECGD (government)
I also noticed that the manifesto makes reference to many European models, German, Nordic, Spanish, Italian , French , EIB, - Corbyn must really like Europe....
So say he gets elected in 2022 and won't go full out socialist, presumably he's expecting a second term in 2027 at 78 years old when he's going to go full blown socialism or more radical.
What is the radical future you're talking about, would that be the soviet model?
Answers still missing, how does he balance the books with the inevitable fallout of Brexit (seemingly ignored) and if he had the unfortunate task of being PM in 2022 how would Labour be ever voted for again considering the problems he's going to be facing and the blame he's going to take. Tories and Labour both destroyed?
some great lines there.