Which part are you saying he doesn't want? A GE or to cancel Brexit?
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Which part are you saying he doesn't want? A GE or to cancel Brexit?
To be honest i dont think he wants any alternative to any issue. Nothing bar revoking works for Paul.
You're seriously saying Labour want to sit down with the EU to negotiate a new withdrawal agreement and then campaign against it? I suspect the EU might find it a bit difficult to grasp that one as well.
I said none of that and nor did anyone specify the WA is the target of the renegotiation. Nice rant though.
Yeah imagine doing a referendum with some thrashed out options. Madness
I suppose you think it was a great idea to go into the original referendum completely blind to the actual options.
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None of them are my mates, all of the parties are unelectable. This concept of a GE solving the problem is equally daft - whoever gets in, and we all know LibDems will never get in, the UK will be back to square one at the end of it, it doesn't solve anything.
Personally imo leaving the EU is insane but the sooner it happens the better otherwise it will never go away. The Uk will just have to live with the consequences and then both the Tories and Labour will be history. Start over again the political system.
What do think the chances are of the EU granting an extension for this renegotiate but don't necessarily mean it policy?
I never rant. So you mean the renegotiation of the political declaration which is meaningless, anything can be negotiated after the WA is signed but to get a deal the WA has to be signed and Labour have voted against it every time.
What's Corbyn's latest position on Freedom of movement or doing individual trade deals whilst in a customs union?
Trying to please Leave and Remain will only end in failure. Be one or the other, you can't be both. Any type of Leave will be a disaster and certainly put a kybosh on his policies.
No it's not. My gut feeling is that a GE is the only way to solve the problem. As I see it the trouble with the call to stop a 'no deal brexit' is for many as much of a lie as it was for the the leavers to put that 350m per week on the side of a bus. Truth is that most who are railing against a no deal brexit if they are honest want no form of brexit at all in much the same way as some want a no deal brexit. The only way out of the impasse is for either for the Conservative party with the aid of the Brexit party to get a really decent working majority or for those two parties to be hammered at the next election. There simply is not a middle ground. Teresa thought she would pull it off when she called the 2017 election but of course folks were already peed off with austerity.
However should the opinion polls be correct in calling a tight race a GE might solve nowt and we end up with another minority government. With either the Conservatives again propped up by the DUP or Labour propped up by the SNP. Mind you if the latter were to be the outcome I'd expect the SNP price to be agreement to another Scottish Independence Referendum.
As one or two others have previously said I do not believe we are truly ever going to see the end of this. It really has split the country in half. Even if there were to be a turnaround and we decided to stay in the EU I would expect at least 40 percent of the population to be as much up in arms as those in advocating remain are the upshot being that the UK would continue in perpetuity to be a reluctant partner in the European Project.
I have almost come around to the view that we should leave and suffer the consequences. Although that's tough to say I reckon that its only by feeling the pain that we might one day realise that being in the EU is better than being out and embrace rejoining. Then again what the heck do I know. Not much really except that all politicians are playing party politics. Not one of them give a damn for the country and the only time I live in a democracy is for the 5 minutes when they seek my vote on GE day. Once elected the tossers do just as they please.
It would of course become policy if that's what the public voted, it's not a futile proposal.
However I'd say the chances of them actually engaging are very very slim. The only reason they'd do so is to push us towards a Brexit in name only deal but i doubt they believe that would pass anyway.
I don't know about that, he's been in support of the WAB being signed too. What I don't understand is why you guys think Remainers would want a GE now. It's not really solving the issue of no-deal Brexit. There's a reason they prefer the issue to go to a referendum.
EDIT: What the tweet indicates is the very high risk of the Remain vote being split and Conservatives, despite suffering heavy losses in term of votes, managing to form a majority government.
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You realise that's a council by-election where the Tories lost 18% of the vote, right?
I see another GE being a minority government where nothing happens.
Said it before that we could've been 2-3 years into trade deals had we moved to a temporary Norway type deal after the vote or even a full year after. That's assuming honouring the vote is paramount.
EU will look after themselves and aren't going to tempt others into leaving. You leave and face the consequences or stay a full member.
I would risk calling it off and declaring the vote not big enough to undo decades of membership and risking our own Union. Cite Scotland and NI voted to stay, the margin was too low overall, the Irish border wasn't considered fully and stalling the economy any longer is not possible. A simple majority was wrong and leads to an impasse, it's so slight it could be 51% the other way another year and back again. Changing the course of 4 nations over such a meager margin is silly. There has to be a greater appetite one way or the other otherwise we'll just be in limbo with no direction to go.
The only other way is leave and try to survive, we'll see if we can or not. We could be ok or be banging on the door to rejoin the EU, that might be the best way but still, to do that on such a tiny margin is just wrong.
Said it before that we could've been 2-3 years into trade deals had we moved to a temporary Norway type deal after the vote or even a full year after. That's assuming honouring the vote is paramount.
EU will look after themselves and aren't going to tempt others into leaving. You leave and face the consequences or stay a full member.
I would risk calling it off and declaring the vote not big enough to undo decades of membership and risking our own Union. Cite Scotland and NI voted to stay, the margin was too low overall, the Irish border wasn't considered fully and stalling the economy any longer is not possible. A simple majority was wrong and leads to an impasse, it's so slight it could be 51% the other way another year and back again. Changing the course of 4 nations over such a meager margin is silly. There has to be a greater appetite one way or the other otherwise we'll just be in limbo with no direction to go.
The only other way is leave and try to survive, we'll see if we can or not. We could be ok or be banging on the door to rejoin the EU, that might be the best way but still, to do that on such a tiny margin is just wrong.
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I do yes. You realise this is a strong indicator of voting intention in a GE right? Or do you think people switch off national politics when they vote for local council elections?
Agree with almost every word apart from the first 2 sentences but ..
without a GE you get a Tory no deal brexit
With a GE you get four possible outcomes:
Tory overall majority - no deal brexit
Tory + Brexit Party/DUP - no deal Brexit
Labour overall majority - who knows - could be remain - another referendum - unicorns - back to 3 years ago. Going round in circles.
Labour + SNP/LibDems - ditto more towards remain ie revoke A50.
And what happens if neither of the bolded options you outline happens in a GE. What happens if there's no majority and hung parliament again? What view prevails?
And how is a GE the only way to address a specific question that was started by a referendum, but a referendum isn't?
Oh come off it, a suburb of Shrewsbury which has voted Tory in council elections since the ward was created being held by the Tories with an 18% swing against them tells you nothing, and if it does tell you anything (which it doesn't) what it tells you is that there's a big swing against the Tories.
The Greens won every seat in my ward less than 3 months ago, you don't see me claiming that there's going to be a Green clean sweep of the HoC.
It does tell me there's a big swing against the Tories but it also tells me that they could still get a majority in a GE as the Remain vote is split between Greens, Lib Dems and in part Labour. I mean if you don't see the high probability of that, I'd urge you to come off it.
Yes, and that can be true without this by-election result being in the slightest bit interesting.
I mean it's literally a council election. Brexit won't have been mentioned by any of the candidates and there won't have been a pact between the Greens/Lib Dems because they'll disagree on what day of the week bins should be collected. The 18% swing against the Tories is just (probably more tbh, given local polling) to be because people don't like the cakes the Tory councillor sells in her bakery than anything else. Extrapolating any larger conclusions out of a tiny and unrepresentative sample size is fraught with danger.
The far more important recent example is that of the Lib Dems winning a seat in the HoC after they did come to an arrangement with Plaid and the Greens to field a Remain candidate.
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Well that will tell you that there is no appetite to cancel brexit amongst the masses, so why is anyone even discussing brexit?
As a remainer I would gladly vote for the Lib Dems in a general election. However unfortunately most people are set in their ways for which party they vote - and so will still vote labour or tory regardless. My parents for example will always vote tory, no matter what.
I agree with the post you were replying to - the lib dems won't get in. That doesn't however show there is no appetite to cancel brexit, instead just a reflection of politics in this country. People are fixed in their ways.
Of course the Lib Dems won’t get in. They’re still treated as some minor irrelevancy by the media and by voters even when they’re doing really well.
Their leader points out some simple parliamentary maths, and is basically told to sit down and follow Labours lead, because hey Corbyn is the official opposition leader, despite doing nothing but obstruct the anti-Brexit movement for the last 3 years.
Their leader points out some simple parliamentary maths, and is basically told to sit down and follow Labours lead, because hey Corbyn is the official opposition leader, despite doing nothing but obstruct the anti-Brexit movement for the last 3 years.
Why would anyone, who is not an ardent Jeremy fan, believe he would remain in the EU.? Jeremy's after his own kind of 'no deal' with the EU.
Corbyn's whole political life has been in a anti-EU stance, even before most of the ERG were! Jeremy is a man who has been, in political terms 'baying at the moon' all his life. By a stupendous mistake the Labour party adopted him as its leader, then allowed his 'shock troops' to as it were storm the bastille and make sure he got elected again. Given his Marxist beliefs it would be reasonable to assume that once he obtained power, by whatever means, he would be difficult to shift. This would be nothing new as Jeremy holds fast to his views and in fairness always has, that has been one of his attractions to many of his disciples; however let no one be fooled, Jeremy wants out from the EU as much as any euro-sceptic Tory, if he can use Brexit to get his hands on the leavers of power, then all his revolutionary dreams will come true. Its something of a minor miracle he has got so far... but then they said that about Trump!
Corbyn's whole political life has been in a anti-EU stance, even before most of the ERG were! Jeremy is a man who has been, in political terms 'baying at the moon' all his life. By a stupendous mistake the Labour party adopted him as its leader, then allowed his 'shock troops' to as it were storm the bastille and make sure he got elected again. Given his Marxist beliefs it would be reasonable to assume that once he obtained power, by whatever means, he would be difficult to shift. This would be nothing new as Jeremy holds fast to his views and in fairness always has, that has been one of his attractions to many of his disciples; however let no one be fooled, Jeremy wants out from the EU as much as any euro-sceptic Tory, if he can use Brexit to get his hands on the leavers of power, then all his revolutionary dreams will come true. Its something of a minor miracle he has got so far... but then they said that about Trump!
Maybe there isn't but Brexit will have the biggest impact on the UK since the war and that includes all the recessions. Everyone's playing party politics and think Brexit will be a minor hiccup.
I don't expect Brexit to be cancelled and I don't expect the UK to get a different deal.
Which doesn't leave much else - it's just a question of when and then reality might finally hit home.
What do you mean by the bolded? That Corbyn would somehow try to change or circumvent the democratic process to hold on to power like a dictator? Because if so, I have no fecking idea where this is coming from and I'm not even Labour never mind Corbyn. If you mean that'll he'll try to stay in power by normal democraatic means, then how is it any different from any other party or leader?
I might not like the guy but I've got no clue where this whole propaganda that he's somehow dangerous, is coming from. Because it sure isn't based on reality. Feckless perhaps. A dangerous would-be dictator? No.
Yes sorry about that, it should be levers, but then again in another context 'leavers' could be acceptable!
Economically that would be bad as nothing spooks markets like uncertainty... But in terms of political horsetrading it would be fascinating
Snp probably demanding independence
Libs demanding an immediate referendum on brexit... Probably pushing for pr as well
Independents probably going to be offered cushy jobs
Everybody demanding labour get rid of Corbyn as a pre condition to working with them?
I think Boris will get th majority he needs if they can secure a pact with the brexit party... Mainly down to the toxic brand of Corbyn rather than people wanting Johnson though
Well in the present heated political atmosphere, where Johnson is supposedly either going to prorogue parliament, or refuse to leave if he loses a vote of confidence, where the leader of the Liberals has said she wouldn't accept the results of a second referendum if it turned out to be Leave again, then suggesting a Marxist might seek to hold on to power is not all that outrageous...is it?
Yes it is
No Deal is bad but this bogeyman I've constructed in my head will be even worse so feck it, let it happen.
I don't get it 
I'm genuinely baffled as to what some centrists have been expecting to happen in their campaign to stop a No Deal. It's been fairly obvious that for as much as he's been rubbish on the EU, their stopping No Deal was always going to be contingent on Corbyn taking sides with them. There was never going to be any question of him stepping down because it's just not in his interests to do so. If Lib Dem/Tory remainers want to stop a No Deal, then their only option is that they side with Corbyn. In the case of said Tory MP's, it'll be devastating for their careers, yeah, but then their Tory credentials have already been smashed to pieces anyway by virtue of supporting the EU in the first place, and if they value staying in the EU so much then they're going to have to make certain compromises that may be uncomfortable for them.
That ultimately means backing Corbyn on this one. They really, really do not have as much bargaining power as they think they do here. And for all their claims that Corbyn is politically naive (on plenty of occasions a fair comment) they're coming across incredibly poorly in throwing their toys out of the pram with the expectation they'll be given exactly when they want when there's not really incentive for Corbyn to give away more than he has to.
That ultimately means backing Corbyn on this one. They really, really do not have as much bargaining power as they think they do here. And for all their claims that Corbyn is politically naive (on plenty of occasions a fair comment) they're coming across incredibly poorly in throwing their toys out of the pram with the expectation they'll be given exactly when they want when there's not really incentive for Corbyn to give away more than he has to.
I don't get it
It makes no sense.
Ah so because Boris is trying to bypass parliament, so would Corbyn. Solid argument. Yet somehow not as many people brand Boris dangerous as they do with Corbyn. Fascinating.
Nooooo Jeremy Corbyn
Any chances of a no deal or Corbyn government poll?
Any chances of a no deal or Corbyn government poll?
If this is the result of the GE then Leave would almost definitely be the result of a second referendum. No one who doesn't want a No Deal Brexit should vote for a BOJO Tory Party in a GE.
My only chance of beating the Tories in my constituency is a Labour victory. Even in the Euro elections Labour were the highest main party behind the Brexit Party.
I voted Lib Dem reluctantly because I don't trust them not to back the Tories and they finished 4th behind the Tories.