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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Wondered when you would put in an appearance Paul?

Perhaps we are talking about different aspects of generations, on that assumption (please note @JPRouve).

I am talking of ten year periods, possibly 70's but definitely 80's, 90's, 00's in fact right up to Brexit in 2016, any attempt to open up debate around immigration/asylum either aroused no interest whats so ever, or was shouted down at meetings. I was still a member of the Labour party then and remember someone trying to raise a question from the floor, which a local MP slammed down as out of order.
Also of course Gordon Brown found to his cost when an old lady in Rochdale asked him about immigration, as I remember a fairly innocuous one, Gordon went on to allow his statement about 'bigots' to be overheard, from that point on with the Tory press in full cry everything shifted up a gear!
Do you actually know what a generation is because 10 year periods are not generations!
 
Mods, it's been many days of this circling discussion on immigration. Can it be moved to its own thread now? Its link to Brexit is becoming more tenuous by the day.

Brexit is more than immigration but immigration is the main reason 52% among the more intellectually challenged voted no on that day. Until that issue is addressed honestly, there will be on real progress on the question of the UK’s relationship with the EU.
 
Trade deal with Aus and NZ comes into effect tonight. I think this might be the turning point for Brexit, the UK will make it's comeback.
 
Trade deal with Aus and NZ comes into effect tonight. I think this might be the turning point for Brexit, the UK will make it's comeback.
Can’t wait to eat the steak, personally recommended above all food safety checks by JRM himself
 
Britain’s future is outside the EU, the Labour leader, Keir Starmer, has said, as he promised to make Brexit work.

Writing in the Daily Express newspaper, Starmer – who campaigned for Remain in the 2016 referendum – also said he would not be seeking a return to freedom of movement.

The comments are Starmer’s latest pitch to Brexit-backing voters ahead of the next general election, with the Labour leader promising to improve on the UK-EU deal reached by Boris Johnson, PA reported.

“If we are to make Brexit work, we need a government with the vision and the focus to deliver it,” he wrote.

“As Rishi Sunak heads off to meet with Emmanuel Macron on Thursday, there are no signs that he or his Government have any proper plan to deliver that better future for our country.

“Britain’s future is outside the EU. Not in the single market, not in the customs union, not with a return to freedom of movement. Those arguments are in the past, where they belong.”

He said that the current deal between London and Brussels is “paper-thin”, arguing that it had “stifled Britain’s potential and hugely weighted trade terms towards the EU”.


The future is dim.
 
The future is dim.

Depends on where you stand. I think it spares us EUropeans from the hassle of dealing with British charme offenses. Let that tosser win the election, and demand better conditions for the mighty UK. Should make for some good lols.
 
What you said was how this has impacted on at least three or maybe four generations of UK populace, and how until Brexit no one really talked about immigration or asylum.

Forget the politicians, explain the bolded part. The UK has never changed in my lifetime. The only difference seems to be that it's quite acceptable to be openly xenophobic and racist since Brexit for some. They still talked about it but not without fear.

First of all, as pointed out by another poster, it was decades not generations. I accept that criticism.

I was referring to my experience in particular with official Labour party matters, at least those I was involved in at the time, but it applied in the general populace as well. There was a reluctance to even mentioning immigration, for fear of being classed as racist etc. No debate was officially allowed, even to castigate racists, and as a result Farage filled the gap and attracted thousands of what became known as 'red wall' voters away from Labour, especially after Gordon Brown's unfortunate comments.

The Brexit referendum ultimately (and entirely for the wrong reasons) therefore became the legitimate opportunity for many to express their views about officialdom and the lack of consultation over a number of decisions taken relating to EU matters. During these decades various agreements in the EU were reached, and the populace in many EU countries were allowed a vote on such matters (didn't Ireland have two or three?) but the populace in the UK were not given a vote. This built up resentment not just about 'freedom of movement,' 'closer political union', etc but also the underlying concerns of immigration for many in the population... the fact is no one in either main party would be honest with the population. As mentioned earlier, Farage filled the gap, he wrapped everything up together and for the politically uninitiated, it was a simple message, freedom of movement was to be feared, sovereignty was at stake, immigration was in chaos, and it was all the EU's fault.

In my opinion the 'no platforming' discussions around immigration, led to the UK leaving the EU.

Incidentally Paul, when did you move to France?
 
Britain’s future is outside the EU, the Labour leader, Keir Starmer, has said, as he promised to make Brexit work.

Writing in the Daily Express newspaper, Starmer – who campaigned for Remain in the 2016 referendum – also said he would not be seeking a return to freedom of movement.

The comments are Starmer’s latest pitch to Brexit-backing voters ahead of the next general election, with the Labour leader promising to improve on the UK-EU deal reached by Boris Johnson, PA reported.

“If we are to make Brexit work, we need a government with the vision and the focus to deliver it,” he wrote.

“As Rishi Sunak heads off to meet with Emmanuel Macron on Thursday, there are no signs that he or his Government have any proper plan to deliver that better future for our country.

“Britain’s future is outside the EU. Not in the single market, not in the customs union, not with a return to freedom of movement. Those arguments are in the past, where they belong.”

He said that the current deal between London and Brussels is “paper-thin”, arguing that it had “stifled Britain’s potential and hugely weighted trade terms towards the EU”.


The future is dim.
It was dim as soon as the vote was counted
 
Depends on where you stand. I think it spares us EUropeans from the hassle of dealing with British charme offenses. Let that tosser win the election, and demand better conditions for the mighty UK. Should make for some good lols.

Starmer doesn't understand the EU or Brexit and never has. Hopeless politician. Don't think he'll last very long if he wins the next GE.
 
Starmer doesn't understand the EU or Brexit and never has. Hopeless politician. Don't think he'll last very long if he wins the next GE.
maybe, maybe not, but he can't be any worse than the lot that he'd be replacing
 
First of all, as pointed out by another poster, it was decades not generations. I accept that criticism.

I was referring to my experience in particular with official Labour party matters, at least those I was involved in at the time, but it applied in the general populace as well. There was a reluctance to even mentioning immigration, for fear of being classed as racist etc. No debate was officially allowed, even to castigate racists, and as a result Farage filled the gap and attracted thousands of what became known as 'red wall' voters away from Labour, especially after Gordon Brown's unfortunate comments.

The Brexit referendum ultimately (and entirely for the wrong reasons) therefore became the legitimate opportunity for many to express their views about officialdom and the lack of consultation over a number of decisions taken relating to EU matters. During these decades various agreements in the EU were reached, and the populace in many EU countries were allowed a vote on such matters (didn't Ireland have two or three?) but the populace in the UK were not given a vote. This built up resentment not just about 'freedom of movement,' 'closer political union', etc but also the underlying concerns of immigration for many in the population... the fact is no one in either main party would be honest with the population. As mentioned earlier, Farage filled the gap, he wrapped everything up together and for the politically uninitiated, it was a simple message, freedom of movement was to be feared, sovereignty was at stake, immigration was in chaos, and it was all the EU's fault.

In my opinion the 'no platforming' discussions around immigration, led to the UK leaving the EU.

Incidentally Paul, when did you move to France?

I didn't mention decades/generations. I said the UK's attitude towards immigration and foreigners has always been the same but people can pretend otherwise if they wish.

I didn't want to enter a large discussion about immigration

I left in 2007 but Farage had long been spouting his nonsense long before that. Nice easy job doing nothing for the country, just standing up every now and again spouting his racist bile.
At least his pension and those of his cohorts will be paid by the UK. Very poor value for money. Johnson had been telling lies as journalist from about the same time.

When I left, I was still MD of two Uk trading companies until 2016. Also I am aware what happens in other parts of the world.

What do British people expect the future to hold now (excluding climate problems)?
We do know that immigration will increase much quicker, we do know that Brexit has done severe damage to the economy with much worse to come. And we do know that the UK has lost a lot of its power in the world.

What is the future?
 
The current lot are hopeless. But being the best of the worst is not a great endorsement.
Indeed, the problem with the Labour party is that half of it wants an unelectable Socialist paradise and the other half are left-wing Conservatives - or at last that's what it looks like to me
 
Indeed, the problem with the Labour party is that half of it wants an unelectable Socialist paradise and the other half are left-wing Conservatives - or at last that's what it looks like to me

Starmer's left his Socialist paradise behind. His focus is on the voters Labour lost to the Brexiters. If I was still in the UK I would have hoped that with an open goal for Labour he would try and appeal to more people who know that Brexit can never possibly succeed. He may lose more voters than he hopes to get back. What a prospect.
 
Starmer doesn't understand the EU or Brexit and never has. Hopeless politician. Don't think he'll last very long if he wins the next GE.

I'd be very happy for him to be given the boot asap. But it's imperative he wins the election first. At all costs.
 
I had an interview with a company last week who are setting up in EMEA. They were originally planning for London but have now jumped to Dublin because of Brexit and being able to get the freedom of movement for people that they will need to cover certain languages
 
I found all the brexit voters. They're at the same camping in France I'm vacationing apparently. Innit.
 
I found all the brexit voters. They're at the same camping in France I'm vacationing apparently. Innit.
If they held a leave the EU vote in Algarve during july and august, Algarve would leave the EU with brexiteer votes alone.
 
Makes sense. Let the whole audience to a man/woman squirm without hiding behind the remoaners' cloak. Maybe give them all a test as they enter the studio: man, woman, TV, newspaper, video. Something like that.

I'll be watching, and I never watch BBC now.
 
Makes sense. Let the whole audience to a man/woman squirm without hiding behind the remoaners' cloak. Maybe give them all a test as they enter the studio: man, woman, TV, newspaper, video. Something like that.

I'll be watching, and I never watch BBC now.
It's in Clacton-on-Sea ffs. The majority will still be massively pro-Brexit, with the only point of interest likely to be how many openly admit to immigration being their main reason for voting and the language they couch it in.
There will be some nauseatingly sycophantic Johnson apologists too.
 
It's in Clacton-on-Sea ffs. The majority will still be massively pro-Brexit, with the only point of interest likely to be how many openly admit to immigration being their main reason for voting and the language they couch it in.
There will be some nauseatingly sycophantic Johnson apologists too.
The BBC had just given up on impartiality apparently.
 
Don't worry, Starmer's going to make it work...

UK exports in last decade worse than any G7 country except Japan

UN figures show value of British goods and services exports rose by 6% between 2012 and 2021, compared with 29.1% for EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...an-any-g7-country-except-japan-in-last-decade

This headline has nothing to do with Starmer.
But everything to do with Boris Johnson and his Brexit cohorts who, due to their Brexit vanity project have inflicted the most catastrophic damage to the UK. Damage that each and every one of us is now experiencing and will continue to experience.
The penny has started to drop and many people are now starting to comprehend the scale of their ridiculous decisions. But are too stubborn to admit it.
 
This headline has nothing to do with Starmer.
But everything to do with Boris Johnson and his Brexit cohorts who, due to their Brexit vanity project have inflicted the most catastrophic damage to the UK. Damage that each and every one of us is now experiencing and will continue to experience.
The penny has started to drop and many people are now starting to comprehend the scale of their ridiculous decisions. But are too stubborn to admit it.

You don't have to tell me what an absolute disaster Brexit is, but Starmer has stated he's going to 'make it work'. I want to know how in light of all the evidence so far.
 
Don't worry, Starmer's going to make it work...

UK exports in last decade worse than any G7 country except Japan

UN figures show value of British goods and services exports rose by 6% between 2012 and 2021, compared with 29.1% for EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...an-any-g7-country-except-japan-in-last-decade

Sefkovic had already warned the UK that any more pulling away from EU standards means any new deal will be worse, not better, than the TCA the UK has at the moment and that's three years away.

The UK are now competitors so there is no reason to give a new deal unless it is vastly in the favour of the EU.

Starmer still thinks his takeaway menu strategy will work. Never did and never will.
 
but Starmer has stated he's going to 'make it work'. I want to know how in light of all the evidence so far.

If he's any sense he will start with a 'blank page' approach.
Going forward he will ask what can the UK do for, or in conjunction with the EU, to improve trading between the two? If he gets an absolute 'nothing at all' in reply, then he can say he tried and move on.
It's quite a good ploy really, it's a 'win win' in political terms (if not economic terms) for Starmer because he can do a 'Pontius Pilate' and symbolically wash his hands of the whole thing....for the benefit of both 'ultras' Brexiteer's and Remainer's. His real worry will come if he gets some sort of positive or semi positive response, then he needs to put his thinking cap on!
 
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Blank page approach
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