Bruno, Fred, McT

Pogba came on and played when Newcastle started to get tired. He loves it when the oppos can’t really press like they normally do in the first hour. We’ve seen it before.
He should play further up the pitch instead, together with Bruno and Rashford and play three of Matic, Donny, Scott and Fred behind them. Would give us a nice balance i think. Both Pogba and Bruno can score if they get into the box as well.
 
its a more balanced midfield. At least winning the battle when we are out of possession. When we are attacking, we can only rely on bruno for the creative pass and people will start complaining about fred and mct not able to pick out passes. Its a trade off in our current situation. Pogba can play but we will have one less quick player helping with defensive work. Midfield will be over run again giving them big spaces for them to attack and score. Subbing in after we tire them out is good for Pogba, he can start contributing straight away...

Today we saw the whole midfield pressing fast, moving fast and working together as a team. Its going well winning the midfield battle but people will say its Newcastle. If we start Pogba, we will wonder why Newcastle is playing so well against us with so much space...
 
VdB's greatest asset seems to be his movement off the ball. He is literally everywhere in the final 3rd and thus seems hard to mark, And then quick 1 touch passes.

In a double pivot, he would have to be a lot more restrained with his movement and hold the ball a bit more. So essentially negating his strengths.

He could do very well in a midfield 3 though. With two players behind him and he being furthest forward.

a midfield 3 of McT/matic - Fred/Pogba - VdB could do very well.
 
Gordon S said:
Pogba came on and played when Newcastle started to get tired. He loves it when the oppos can’t really press like they normally do in the first hour. We’ve seen it before.
He should play further up the pitch instead, together with Bruno and Rashford and play three of Matic, Donny, Scott and Fred behind them. Would give us a nice balance i think. Both Pogba and Bruno can score if they get into the box as well.
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This. We’ve finally find a way to get the best out of Pogba. The super sub role from a manager who used to be known as super sub player too. :lol:

Pogba always good when coming on as sub against Spurs, Watford last season and today, there is no guarantee if Pogba will do the same or perform better if he starts or plays 60 min or plus against Newcastle.
 
Weird thread, we were dogshite until Pogba entered the pitch, and McTominay failed to control anything last night against a very, very poor Newcastle-midfield.
 
James Peril said:
Weird thread, we were dogshite until Pogba entered the pitch, and McTominay failed to control anything last night against a very, very poor Newcastle-midfield.
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I'm trying to be on your side man, but Pogba didn't do anything significant in this game. At least VDB was in the build up for the second goal. Mctominay isn't there to provide control, that's why we played Bruno and Mata, he was there for balance, cover, and provide a shield in front of our slow CB pair. Which will never happen with Pogba in front of them. Pogba may play in front in a number 10 or something, but after the last 4 seasons, we should at learned by now learn that he can't play in a double pivot with a slow DM like Matic with a slow CB pair. It's just a recipe for disaster.
 
James Peril said:
Weird thread, we were dogshite until Pogba entered the pitch, and McTominay failed to control anything last night against a very, very poor Newcastle-midfield.
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How about starting Pogba and Newcastle having more shot on target than us? Even if it ends at 1-1, still the best game this season. Controlling the whole game because our midfield is winning.
 
It wasn’t any fluke last season when Pogba was out and Fred, McT, Bruno sent us on that purple patch. They may not be better players but they give the team more balance. They deserve to be starting for now and same with Mata.
 
McTom was average last night. Thought Bruno and Mata were sensational together. Add VDB into that and you have 3 players that can pass/move and open defences up
 
I’ve been thinking for awhile now the balance just doesn’t work with Pogba in that two behind Bruno so yeh I’d favour this combo. That being said I’d still like to see Ole experiment with some other systems and tactics such as the diamond which would allow pogba and Bruno more freedom up the pitch.
 
Fred was terrible against Newcastle and over his time at United hasn't convinced me that he's able to a regular starter. McT is a squad player, nothing more. We still need 2 midfielders starters to replace both Matic and Pogba.

It's clear that Ole favors the 4231 as his primary formation and Pogba is wasted in a double pivot midfield. He needs to be attacking and with much less defensive responsibility. His attitude is also poor and he's not a leader. He's a technically phenomenal player being played out of position at a club that doesn't have the luxury to field him in the starting XI.

But again, the club had a shocking transfer window and plainly refuses to get in the players that are required in the positions needed.
 
What people forget is Liverpool midfield. It has "dogshit" players but won Champions league and League. Why? Because it offers the crucial balance the front three need, the fullbacks need when high up.
 
Assuming we stick with the 4231 formation

-------------GK------------
---------Defense--------
------Scott--Fred-------
Mata---Bruno---VdB-
----------Striker-----------
Versus sides that sit deep like Newcastle did yesterday. Scott and Fred to battle it out in midfield. Those sides usually also have at least one shithouse in midfield, so its nice to have Scott there to shithouse them back a bit. Mata, Bruno and VdB to provide lots of clever interplay, movement and incisive passing

---------------------------GK-----------------.
----------------------Defense-------------
---------------VdB-------Fred------------
Greenwood---Bruno---Rashford
---------------------Striker------------------
Versus sides that presses higher. Fred provides energy and defensive cover, while VdB helps us transition quickly from defense to attack and exploit any imbalances in their shape
 
We were so much better today with this trio. We had lot of chances to finish the game sooner before the subs. Keeper pulled off Tom Heaton Old Trafford performance today, you got to give credit where it‘s due. I don’t know what you were watching to complain about yesterday game with these three together.

It offers so much more balance in the team than Pogba & Matic, more energy and protection and much more suitable with Bruno and our trio. If we have Martial or Greenwood or even Sancho instead of James yesterday, our decision making or finishing in the final third would have been miles better.
 
WR10 said:
That midfield three gave us our record best streak of winning football the club has had for 6 years. Of course it's the best trio. However we're in a situation where have to satisfy Pogba and Donny. Pogba and Donny have to settle for impact subs.
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Is that true ? I might be wrong but in terms of winning streaks wasn’t that when Ole first came in? Matic Herrera Pogba
 
TsuWave said:
We didn’t do anything we those three :lol: In fact, had a comical start and if not for a couple of amazing saves by De Gea we would have been behind
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What? We were comfortably the better side all game and besides a freak own goal and one good save from De Gea, Newcastle hardly troubled us at all. Considering the stinkers served up by Pogba and Matic in our first three games, Scott and Fred had more than earned their chance i would argue they took it well.
 
bond19821982 said:
It isn't. Absolutely ridiculous to say that for a club like us. It shows how bad our recruitment has been in the last few years. If you need Fred and Scott to provide a stable base on top of the defense where we spent 200m , then God help us.

Again, Pogba may not be a right fit in that 2 man midfield but the fact that we aren't even trying anything else shows how limited our coaching team is.
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What are you implying here? That we might as well line up 4-0-6 and let the defense sort it out on their own because they cost a lot of money?

Every team needs a stable base in midfield. The problem in out three previous league games was that the other teams were allowed to stroll right past our midfield and run unopposed at our defense again and again. You could have a backline of Cafu, Becenbauer, Maldini and Phillip Lahm and they would still have trouble if they got no help from midfield. 4231 is a pretty offensive formation where you basically have 4 out and out attackers, so you absolutely needs the two CM's to help out defending there

Still not convinced by McTomminey, but hope he can turn into a fine player. Fred on the other hand provides loads of energy and tenacity, and is crucial for breaking up play. I also think Freds passing get overlooked a bit. Hes no Bruno, but he does the basics very well and has shown several times that he can deliver great forward passes.

The problem with Pogba is that his mentality is all wrong for playing that deep. Hes not that concerned with the hard graft and boring basics that you need to do there and seemingly thinks his only job is to be a playmaker. This leads to ball hogging and him getting mugged in dangerous areas

Matic looked good there last year, but then he played with Fred for the most part and not Pogba
 
SSSSnake said:
It wasn’t any fluke last season when Pogba was out and Fred, McT, Bruno sent us on that purple patch. They may not be better players but they give the team more balance. They deserve to be starting for now and same with Mata.
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That combo never really did anything in the league. Only played the one game against Spurs which we were losing until Pogba replaced Fred and won us the penalty. Similarly we were only drawing with it today until Pogba replaced Fred again. They did win a few games against lower league opposition in the FA Cup and Europa League though.

It was Fred, Matic and Bruno that started our winning streak in the league. Won three games against Chelsea, Watford and Man City. Then we had the lockdown and it was basically Matic and Pogba until the end of the season.

*I messed up the stats in my other thread if anybody is going off that. The Everton match had all three of Fred, Matic and McTominay playing which I somehow missed. I'll go back and change the stats in that thread.
 
We've got enough attacking talent up front and creativity through Bruno. What the attack and defence needs is a solid base in midfield. Fred and Mctominay gives us that. Pogba has great ability but he's also the weakness link in midfield; teams press him hard when he's on the ball because he tends to over complicate things, and his defensive work is poor. Mctom and Fred bring the balance that's needed.
 
Bobcat said:
What are you implying here? That we might as well line up 4-0-6 and let the defense sort it out on their own because they cost a lot of money?

Every team needs a stable base in midfield. The problem in out three previous league games was that the other teams were allowed to stroll right past our midfield and run unopposed at our defense again and again. You could have a backline of Cafu, Becenbauer, Maldini and Phillip Lahm and they would still have trouble if they got no help from midfield. 4231 is a pretty offensive formation where you basically have 4 out and out attackers, so you absolutely needs the two CM's to help out defending there

Still not convinced by McTomminey, but hope he can turn into a fine player. Fred on the other hand provides loads of energy and tenacity, and is crucial for breaking up play. I also think Freds passing get overlooked a bit. Hes no Bruno, but he does the basics very well and has shown several times that he can deliver great forward passes.

The problem with Pogba is that his mentality is all wrong for playing that deep. Hes not that concerned with the hard graft and boring basics that you need to do there and seemingly thinks his only job is to be a playmaker. This leads to ball hogging and him getting mugged in dangerous areas

Matic looked good there last year, but then he played with Fred for the most part and not Pogba
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I don’t disagree with you about Fred’s energy and bite in midfield but his passing is terrible, even when he doesn’t give the ball away he often plays it behind players or weights the passes incorrectly causing players to have to stall runs to connect.
 
We would struggle to control games with Fred and Mctominay on the pitch. The ball is just going to be flying everywhere. Remove one of them for Matic and you add more calmness and control to the game. Better yet remove both and put in Matic and VdB to add both control and better quality
 
I would like to try a 4-1-2-1-2 with the midfielders we have now.

--------------Backline------------------

-------------- Matic----------------
Pogba---------------VdB

----------------Bruno----------

Martial--------------Rashford
 
People criticising Fred-McTominay for lack of offensive contribution need to understand that we've lost 12 goals already this season. This midfield gives us some safety and makes it diffficult for opposition to play their game.

Neither of Fred and McTominay are world class, but somehow combined it's a functional midfield. What is more, it is also a great platform for front 4 to do their thing.


IMO upgrade on Fred should be our priority, someone in De Jong mould would be perfect. For the time being though, this is the way forward.
 
You guys have lost your marbles again. This lot ain't keeping a whole Paul Pogba on the bench.
 
RooneyLegend said:
You guys have lost your marbles again. This lot ain't keeping a whole Paul Pogba on the bench.
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Unless there's a formation change to a midfield diamond (which would break up the front 3), I can't see where Pogba plays?

He's a liability playing as a holding midfielder so it's between Bruno or Pogba for me, and Bruno is the much better player. You can get away with playing Pogba as a deep midfielder against teams that park the bus, however there's fewer of these teams now than 15/20 years ago, with more emphasis on pressing today, and Pogba more often than not loses the ball when pressed.
 
Borys said:
People criticising Fred-McTominay for lack of offensive contribution need to understand that we've lost 12 goals already this season. This midfield gives us some safety and makes it diffficult for opposition to play their game.

Neither of Fred and McTominay are world class, but somehow combined it's a functional midfield. What is more, it is also a great platform for front 4 to do their thing.


IMO upgrade on Fred should be our priority, someone in De Jong mould would be perfect. For the time being though, this is the way forward.
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As long as they are not on the ball or we are in possession, they are our best options.
 
UnitedFan93 said:
Unless there's a formation change to a midfield diamond (which would break up the front 3), I can't see where Pogba plays?

He's a liability playing as a holding midfielder so it's between Bruno or Pogba for me, and Bruno is the much better player. You can get away with playing Pogba as a deep midfielder against teams that park the bus, however there's fewer of these teams now than 15/20 years ago, with more emphasis on pressing today, and Pogba more often than not loses the ball when pressed.
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You buy a holding mid, you get a coach who'll coach the team to play a 4 3 3 with Pogba and Bruno ahead of that holding mid. You get a coach who'll demand our team do more off the ball. Demand our players get fitter. Having our team have a coherent pressing structure with clear triggers for when to press, who to press and when to get into shape. You don't settle for playing the mediocrity that is McT and Fred. That you just don't don't.
 
luffy7 said:
Today we saw the whole midfield pressing fast, moving fast and working together as a team. Its going well winning the midfield battle but people will say its Newcastle. If we start Pogba, we will wonder why Newcastle is playing so well against us with so much space...
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Hahaha last part about Pogba...so true.

Yes Fred and McT is by far our best midfield duo so far. Maybe Fred and VDB in the future, we do need to test VDB in that role but what we know for sure Fred and McT is the way to go. Only change it for VDB perhaps. Def not for Pogba or Matic.
 
RooneyLegend said:
You buy a holding mid, you get a coach who'll coach the team to play a 4 3 3 with Pogba and Bruno ahead of that holding mid. You get a coach who'll demand our team do more off the ball. Demand our players get fitter. Having our team have a coherent pressing structure with clear triggers for when to press, who to press and when to get into shape. You don't settle for playing the mediocrity that is McT and Fred. That you just don't don't.
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The transfer window is shut now so its pointless looking back at who we should have signed. We have to work with what we have.

The way I see it, Bruno is the most important player in the team, he starts. The front 3 (Rashford, Martial, Greenwood) have goals in them, each can get 20 goals a season, so they start. Therefore, to complement the attackers we need more defensive minded/workhorse type players behind them to provide a solid base and protect the defense, especially when VAR can give penalties at any second. Liverpool got close to 200 points in the last two seasons by relying on their front 3, and having a solid, reliable base behind them in midfield, nothing fancy, no show pony's, win the ball back ASAP and give it to the front 3 etc. Granted our front 3 are not at their level, but its the model to follow.

The club has spent an absolute fortunate trying to accommodate for Pogba, when ultimately the problem is Pogba himself. We're not winning the league anytime soon if we're relying on players so consistently inconsistent, and Pogba is certainly that.
 
neilv93 said:
As ludicrous as it sounds, a back three of Shaw-Maguire-McT with Telles in at LWB against some lesser teams where we'd want more control wouldn't be terrible. Although I know... absolutely nothing, so there's that.
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I’d like to see 3 at the back though.
 
laughtersassassin said:
People making statements like this after 1 game against Newcastle is hilarious....
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Not really.

After the Spurs match there were numerous discussions about the Matic Pogba duo and most agreed that it wouldn't work. And playing VDB, Fred, McT would be much better as they would provide us the necessary balance in the midfield. The Newcastle match just confirm that.
 
Strelok said:
Not really.

After the Spurs match there were numerous discussions about the Matic Pogba duo and most agreed that it wouldn't work. And playing VDB, Fred, McT would be much better as they would provide us the necessary balance in the midfield. The Newcastle match just confirm that.
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One match doesn't confirm anything. That other midfield has had great games too.

It's just getting ahead of ourselves to say that this midfield is the best one after one game together.
 
We were largely shit until Pog came on.

--------------- DM ------------------

POG ----- --------- --- DONNY

-------------- BRUNO ------------

-------- M --------- M -------------

That should be our strongest midfield, we concede 2, we score 5
 
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