Tragic isn't it.
It's one of the reasons I never use Facebook anymore apart from the group's feature. 300 odd "friends" and 200 of them I haven't seen since school. You don't have any people like that on your Facebook?
Celebrity Allegations, #MeToo etc
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Tragic isn't it.
It's one of the reasons I never use Facebook anymore apart from the group's feature. 300 odd "friends" and 200 of them I haven't seen since school. You don't have any people like that on your Facebook?
I can well believe the 1 in 5 experiencing sexual assault. Having your arse grabbed once would tick that box. It’s the 1 in 6 experiencing rape or attempted rape that seems over the top.
I have about 60 friends and I know them all well. This may be the difference.
I think the statistics I saw for Ireland suggested that 1 in 12 women have been the victim of rape or attempted rape.
Though it's difficult to compare statistics like this across different countries as the legal definitions of terms like "assault" "sexual violence" and "rape" can vary so much. The Swedish rape statistics are a good example as they seem ridiculously high until you look at how they are compiled.
True, not really. Not unless the neighbourhood is dodgy. And then I'm afraid I'll get mugged, not raped.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com//n...-thrones-star-details-hotel-encounter-1049581
Luckily for her that keycard malfunctioned. Also, the way Headey describes Weinstein grabbing her is eerily similar to how he was photographed grabbing Emma Watson in those now-infamous pictures.
Luckily for her that keycard malfunctioned. Also, the way Headey describes Weinstein grabbing her is eerily similar to how he was photographed grabbing Emma Watson in those now-infamous pictures.
Don't take it personal, its just business.
It's not really that, you're over simplifying. I think most people, and seemingly everyone in here, truly sympathise and empathise with women who have been victims of rape and sexual assault.
I think some people take exception at some of the things that are seen as harassment because that is a) broad and b) is not seen as harassment when done from women to men. Which basically can be perceived as double standards and underpin an ideology that men can only perpetrators and women only victims.
I do obviously understand the difference between a woman feeling helpless and vulnerable when she's having her arse grabbed versus a man in the reverse situation. I'm not thick. Like I'd feel helpless if I was in a prison cell and a big brolic black dude, named fecking Requis started grabbing me.
But it's still kinda weird to say that the same type of behaviour is not perceived the same. That the same rules don't apply and it depends not on the actions, but how the victim feels. Because ultimately, how people feel is very subjective. For example some women MeToo'd as harassment being stared at by a stranger. Probably on the very mild end of the spectrum. But I've also been in the company of women who have been really flattered to be stared at by a hot guy in the bar. But if that guy, in the same bar, is the creepy old loner in the corner then it's very unwelcome.
These are I think mens concerns on the subject. Along of course with feeling being tarred with the same brush, which is what some of this some times feels like.
I actually think this is a massive reason why men take harassment from women completely differently from how women take it from men. The "threat" or "fear" to girls going out on a night out, is being violated or raped. For guy's its getting beaten the shit out of. because they're the most common dangers to effect their individual sexes id imagine. This isnt a point scoring comment at all, but id wager guys getting kicked the shit out of is much much more of a common occurrence than rape. and as a result our brains are wired from environmental stimuli growing up to perceive that danger as more pressing? whilst for women its the opposite.
I've had women grab me by the hair and snog me in a pub, one ask my name and proceed to stick her tongue down my throat before I answered, my arse felt at least 500 times in bars and clubs and other random things so #metoo.
I need counselling from these heinous events, or compensation at the very least.
I need counselling from these heinous events, or compensation at the very least.
The 1 in 6 figure comes from a CDC report where they held random telephone interviews and asked women if they had ever felt forced or coerced or threatened in any way.
There was a similar study done by another government body that focused on any kind of acts that would actually be considered a crime. The number was closer to 1 in 60.
Given how difficult it is for women and men to speak out we'll likely never know the true rates. I was astonished by some stories I heard and amazed at how calm the people were while telling me what they went through.
I'm fully behind this #metoo moto, let me get that clear.
What I don't understand is why there's not a medium for people to report this on a daily basis. It seems from my point of view, that you have to wait until some high-profile figure gets done for being an absolute f***ing creep before everyone starts coming out with their accusations. This annoys me greatly.
I understand that with unity comes strength. I get that, but in the times in-between, it's still happening, all the f***ing time by creepy bastards that plague our earth, why is there not a place to voice all of this all of the time?
I don't like relying on having high-profile figures getting taken down to allow people to voice their abuse, this should be an open book to say 'no, f*** off, you're out of order, get f***ed you creep' and air their name and location online for the world to see.
Is there a website that does this, if not, I feel it should be. Obviously it may get out of hand, but with close relations with the local police force, I feel this kind of shit can be reduce greatly.
What I don't understand is why there's not a medium for people to report this on a daily basis. It seems from my point of view, that you have to wait until some high-profile figure gets done for being an absolute f***ing creep before everyone starts coming out with their accusations. This annoys me greatly.
I understand that with unity comes strength. I get that, but in the times in-between, it's still happening, all the f***ing time by creepy bastards that plague our earth, why is there not a place to voice all of this all of the time?
I don't like relying on having high-profile figures getting taken down to allow people to voice their abuse, this should be an open book to say 'no, f*** off, you're out of order, get f***ed you creep' and air their name and location online for the world to see.
Is there a website that does this, if not, I feel it should be. Obviously it may get out of hand, but with close relations with the local police force, I feel this kind of shit can be reduce greatly.
A woman grabbed my dick in the club once, then smiled and winked at me. I was shell-shocked for a few seconds, then spent the next few minutes getting her number.
In the grand scheme of things, this has no relation to the legitimate concerns of women on social media about how some men have treated them. And there's obviously a dynamic at play where someone grabbing my junk was treated with surprise/glee, and me doing the same to a woman evokes thoughts of probable rape.
Not sure what to take away from the hashtag though. Stay on twitter long enough and you'll turn gay just to avoid frightening women. Until the GBTQ portion makes a hashtag about cis men... Sigh.
In the grand scheme of things, this has no relation to the legitimate concerns of women on social media about how some men have treated them. And there's obviously a dynamic at play where someone grabbing my junk was treated with surprise/glee, and me doing the same to a woman evokes thoughts of probable rape.
Not sure what to take away from the hashtag though. Stay on twitter long enough and you'll turn gay just to avoid frightening women. Until the GBTQ portion makes a hashtag about cis men... Sigh.
It's high time this has been brought out to the light. Its an uncomfortable topic but a one that has to be discussed.
And...#metoo
And...#metoo
It's hard for me to imagine that it's the same, I mean when I've been groped by a woman without me soliciting it, I've never felt in danger, I've never felt worried that I might end up being forced to engage in some sort of sexual act. There's definitely a difference in the power dynamic.
Genuine question;
With all the campaigns over the years (kony,icebucket, #metoo) when has the world not gone back to the way it was before the campaign started?
With all the campaigns over the years (kony,icebucket, #metoo) when has the world not gone back to the way it was before the campaign started?
Every time? Significant changes happen as a result of any large social phenomena. Revolutionary change does not and I doubt many participating expect it to.
If ass grabbing without explicit consent counts as sexual assault then I reckon the number of people, both men and women, who've experienced it is close to 100% and the number of people who've technically committed sexual assault is just as high or close. I've had people, men and women, friends and strangers, grab my ass and I've laughed it off because I found it funny and was even flattered a couple of times. I've done the same thing a few times but only to close friends IIRC and they've reacted the same way.
Sexual violence is often clearcut but I don't think sexual assault and harassment is. It's just so dependent on context and the people involved, which is probably why it's such a contentious topic.
I really don't know where to post this. It's probably more about the other thread but I feel the other thread is meant to be, and should be, mainly about stories and not my thoughts. So it's going in here.
I've found it thoroughly fascinating seeing the forum deal with this topic. Starting with a lot of replies more interested in a joke than the subject matter, then getting increasingly serious and largely debating the merits of this social media trend. We continued to get more serious and now we have quite a collection of accounts from victims, people unsure if they were victims and people who do not feel they were but feel the events they experienced could class them as such in the eyes of others (or would if they were a different gender).
I think this is pretty awesome and I don't think it would've happened, even a year ago. These conversations are important. They help a lot of people directly and they help create a more knowledgeable and open culture.
I've found it thoroughly fascinating seeing the forum deal with this topic. Starting with a lot of replies more interested in a joke than the subject matter, then getting increasingly serious and largely debating the merits of this social media trend. We continued to get more serious and now we have quite a collection of accounts from victims, people unsure if they were victims and people who do not feel they were but feel the events they experienced could class them as such in the eyes of others (or would if they were a different gender).
I think this is pretty awesome and I don't think it would've happened, even a year ago. These conversations are important. They help a lot of people directly and they help create a more knowledgeable and open culture.
Guys tell each other these stories all the time. Whenever they come up. I tried to empress this upon a female friend this week.
The key difference is that 99% of the time (as many others have said) is that there's very rarely a point that a man feels genuinely threatened by a woman.
I worked as a tour guide once for some pretty affluent types. I took 3 weeks off of my day job every year to get paid to be in the sun in five star hotels. One night a woman knocked on my door. She was maybe 15 years my senior but was - by any measure - ridiculously hot. She had on a robe and nothing else. Dropped it in the hallway and walked in. I'll save the reasonably annoyed back and forth. Bottom line, I didnt want to have sex with her, but got to the point of "Fcuk it why not" after a while. She was South American, aggressive but respectful and more persistent than a drunk person in a club at 3am.
Point being : I tell that to a woman and the standard response is "Should have thrown her out" "Men have no will power" "Push her off and leave" or other versions of that.
Yet when I suggest that women need to be helped more in society as they're inherently more vulnerable when it comes to this issue it's branded as sexism.
Women need protection. They need outlets and support and systems and a myriad other things to get on an equal footing. There should be no problem in acknowledging that.
Retreating behind "Men need to learn not to be pigs" is so stupidly inane that I don't know where to start. HUMANS need to be good humans. That's it.
That's the first #metoo I've seen on my FB wall, and it's got an outpouring of sympathy and angry smilies in response.
Which is sadly the issue I have with turning the whole debate into a social media craze. All too many people are sadly desperate not to be forgotten about and crave online attention, some to unhealthy levels.
Shit like the comment you posted waters it down to a level in which it's hard to take all the #metoo's seriously.
It's a huge shame.
This is the thing I talked about further up though. This situation can feel threatening for a woman so the level of discomfort is different. It's not what happened, but what could happen. Like imagine you're walking across a park and a 6' 6" tattooed bodybuilder that's sitting on the bench looks at you and shouts "Ugh, look at the ass cheeks on that man-boy. I'd like me some of that" and starts licking his lips. Scary situation all of a sudden.
Women are guilty of similar behaviour too, it's just that when you're a man on the receiving end of it while it feels inappropriate it does not feel threatening. Which is why we need to educate everyone that such behaviour is not cool, regardless of who you are, because it legitimises the same behaviour from others but in situations with far worse potential consequences.
Would you find 'Oi! Come ere!' threatening from a complete stranger? I think most people would.
To be fair, as mundane as it may seem context is important. If that's a 6'5 guy shouting it to a woman late at night in an empty car park then I could why it'd be a tad threatening. Even if it's not on the same level as outright assaults etc.
Why does it water it down? The point of the #metoo is to map the extent of sexual harassment, meaning any sort of harassment counts. There shouldn't be a distinction or qualification. The comment you're referring to shouldn't be dismissed (and I wouldn't call it "shite like the comment"), it can be a threatening situation that should be taken seriously. Do you think it's normal a woman (or anyone for that matter) should have that shouted to her? I don't. Being so readily dismissive of situations like that is problematic.
Then 99.9% of the population can write #metoo @Ainu. Both men and women. So of course it's watered down.
I've been threatened (non sexually), by blokes a shit load in my life and felt absolutely threatened, as I'm sure we all have. It's scummy, it feels awful.
Do I think the entire World should act like the future utopia in Demolition Man.. yes probably, but I think it's beyond unrealistic.
The whole point is to show how widespread it is. It's not an exercise in oneupmanship or a campaign to distinguish between assault, harassment, pestering etc.
But of course it's widespread if this kind of thing is included, that's my point. Do we really need to see 7 billion metoo's to understand that people can be fecking twats and going a lifetime avoiding every single said twat is simply not gonna happen.
Honestly, yes if noone is talking about it and there's a heavy weight of silence about the topic.
All I can say is that in my group of friends, I'm not seeing any of the bandwagon jumping you're describing. I'm seeing serious situations being shared.
I think you have a very lovely view of the world if you don't see the bandwagoning on such events.
The instagram generation or social warriors like any rebelious teenager don't ever recognise their behaviour for what it is though so to them it probably isn't self-centred attention seeking. It is though
Which is great in those cases where the actual issue is being highlighted, and I'm sure it's more widespread than we think.
But the situation described above, which I take issue with, is a case of "people are dicks and can be horrible threatening, scummy arseholes", well erm... yeah. I really don't think that needs 7 billion of us to say it and water down the more important issue.
Why doesn't it? Why should people be silent about vile threatening behaviour as if it's just how things are? If we do, then how do we ever start to change it?
With regard to catcalling in the street....
Of course not. That would be a ridiculous reaction.
So putting #metoo on facebook everytime someone acts like a scumbag or a dick to you will change behaviour?
Yeah I don’t see it sadly, maybe I’m a sceptic but I think we’ll always have twats & scumbags in the World unless we start to genetically modify humans.