Central midfield this season...

We need Anderson to start fulfilling the promise he showed in his first season, and we need Hargreaves back fit and running. Until such time, our central midfield would be relatively weak if compared to the top teams.

I believe Hargreaves would bring out the best in Carrick or Anderson when he's paired with them.
 
Dickinson suggests weak United midfield may lead to surprise transfer




Esteemed football writer Matt Dickinson believes Manchester United’s midfield is not good enough to win the Champions League, and the Times’ Chief Sports Correspondent suggests Sir Alex Ferguson may yet still pull a surprise in this summer’s transfer window. The respected sports writer claims the best midfield combinations in the Premier League belong to United’s rivals Chelsea and Liverpool, and therefore Ferguson needs to address it.

Dickinson writes in the Times: “I keep waking up expecting to discover that the old growler has fooled us once again.”

“That all Sir Alex Ferguson’s declarations about spending no more money in this transfer window have turned out to be a spectacular ruse…To rise one morning to the news of a jaw-dropping deal.”

“It would be a coup to remind us of the audaciousness of Ferguson and the clout of United, and to wrong-foot their rivals not just at home but abroad.”

“And to provide instant replenishment for a midfield that, any way I shuffle it, I cannot see providing the happiest of endings for Ferguson at Old Trafford.”

“I have taken all the names, juggled them, switched them around, chopped and changed but, whichever way you line them up, I cannot see a United midfield that wins the Champions League this season.”

He continues: “It is the greatest European prize, and immortality, that he craves in these final few years.”

“Rewriting the record books with a third, perhaps an unprecedented fourth, Champions League success.”

“Is he going to achieve that, truly, from being reliant on a partnership of Darren Fletcher and Michael Carrick? From trusting Nani and Antonio Valencia on the wings and from hoping that Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes can continue to turn back time?”

He added: “This part of the team was lacking even before Barcelona exposed the fragility at the heart of the United midfield in the Champions League final at the Stadio Olimpico in Rome in May, when Carrick and Anderson were bypassed like sleeping sentries.”

“And it will become even more evident against the best opponents now that Ronaldo and Carlos Tévez have departed.”

“The resultant fanning out of the team this season into 4-4-2 may serve Wayne Rooney very well in allowing him to play through the middle, but it emphasises the lack of stature in the centre that was well disguised when the team were packed into 4-3-3.”

“The formation draws attention to the fact that the most effective, most dominant central midfield players in the Premier League — Michael Essien, Frank Lampard, Mascherano, Steven Gerrard, Cesc Fàbregas — all play for United’s rivals. Perhaps you might add Gareth Barry.”

“Carrick is a fine passer of the ball, but not a man who can turn the momentum of a game when it is running against him; Fletcher is an impressive all-rounder but whose absence from last year’s European final was overstated.”

“Running down that list of their direct competitors makes you wonder whether Ferguson can be content to let the window shut on September 1 without a daring raid; the sort that enabled him to sign the maverick Eric Cantona from Leeds United in 1992 or whisk Andrew Cole away from Newcastle United to astonishment and dismay on Tyneside in 1995.”

“Things are just fine at Old Trafford but Ferguson demands more than fine — and so will the competition of Barcelona and Real Madrid this season — which is why I keep thinking we must all be in for a shock.”

“With only 15 shopping days to go, at least we don’t have to wait long to find out.”

Thought there were a few valid points here although most of it is what is being said here.

Agree with Gaffs re: there are other ways of defending other than tackling but really, we do lack authority in the middle.
 
Every time our midfield is discussed there's a curly-haired, Teutono-Canadian elephant in the room.

It's abundantly clear that SAF doesn't think the midfield options available to him at the beginning of this season are good enough. If he did think they were good enough, why did he sign Owen Hargreaves?

Obviously, Hargreaves wasn't very impressive in his debut season in the centre of the park but neither was Essien in his first season at Chelsea. It would be unfair to write him off after one season. Hargreaves has the ability to take games by the scruff of the neck and provide the aggression, drive and determinantion we frequently miss. If he can stay fit long enough to hit a decent run of form we might see the other elements of his game come to the fore. He has a cracking shot on goal, his superb crossing ability would imply he has a decent range of passing and we already know how effective he can be from set-pieces.

The 60 million dollar question is when Hargreaves can come back and what his long-term prognosis is going to be when he does get back into training? Seeing as none of us know the answer to either of these two questions - but the medical staff at the club will have a fairly good idea - we can only assume that if SAF doesn't sign another midfielder then Hargreaves will have a fairly big part to play this season.
 
hargometer.jpg
 
we can only assume that if SAF doesn't sign another midfielder then Hargreaves will have a fairly big part to play this season.

Yes I think your probably right on this, lets just hope the medical staff are not being to optimistic and we end up short.
 
Possibly.

The thing is he's always injured Pogue. And he can't really pass.

Yeah, there is that.

The thing is, if he could get fit and stay fit I think he could do a similar job for us to what Mascherano does for Liverpool (i.e. running round like a maniac, tackling everything that moves) with passing that is not noticeably any worse than Mascherano and the added bonus of excellent delivery from set-pieces / competent long-range shooting.

Put it this way, if we sold Hargreaves tomorrow and signed an injury-free version of him as replacement I would think our midfield options suddenly look as good as anyone out there. This latest operation has been talked up as a definitive cure to his long-term problems so maybe, just maybe, he could do a Wse Brown / Robin Van Persie and put his injury woes behind him.
 
Possibly.

The thing is he's always injured Pogue. And he can't really pass.

Yeah he can. He just doesn't pass as effectively as Carrick. I really hope he makes it back.

It's well reported that Capello would always start with Hargreaves for England. But for his injuries, there would be none of the OTT re Gareth Barry!

Seriously though, do you think we have a midfield that can win the Champions League?
 
Yeah he can. He just doesn't pass as effectively as Carrick. I really hope he makes it back.

It's well reported that Capello would always start with Hargreaves for England. But for his injuries, there would be none of the OTT re Gareth Barry!

Seriously though, do you think we have a midfield that can win the Champions League?

That midfield won it before and got to the final. It cant be that bad.

I wouldnt say no to a world class midfielder with lots of creativity, but no one that would really improve us is available. So nothing will happen and we have to hope for Carrick finding his form, Hargreaves not being injured, Anderson to step up, Fletcher to continue improving, Scholes and Giggs to get younger...
 
That midfield won it before and got to the final. It cant be that bad.

I wouldnt say no to a world class midfielder with lots of creativity, but no one that would really improve us is available. So nothing will happen and we have to hope for Carrick finding his form, Hargreaves not being injured, Anderson to step up, Fletcher to continue improving, Scholes and Giggs to get younger...

Did it? 2 years ago we had Hargreaves and a better functioning Paul Scholes. Last year Giggs was on fire. Who does it this year? I don't think we have improved in that department from 2 years ago.

Like you have said though no one really is available that i could think of.
 
“Running down that list of their direct competitors makes you wonder whether Ferguson can be content to let the window shut on September 1 without a daring raid; the sort that enabled him to sign the maverick Eric Cantona from Leeds United in 1992 or whisk Andrew Cole away from Newcastle United to astonishment and dismay on Tyneside in 1995.”

Cantona signed in November, Cole in January :rolleyes:

“Things are just fine at Old Trafford but Ferguson demands more than fine — and so will the competition of Barcelona and Real Madrid this season — which is why I keep thinking we must all be in for a shock.”

“With only 15 shopping days to go, at least we don’t have to wait long to find out.”

Who's available? Is the club going to offer 40m for Fabregas? Swoop for RVDV? SAF to convince Gerrard that he's never winning the league with LFC? I can't envision anything happening in this department. Not this summer.
 
Yeah, there is that.

The thing is, if he could get fit and stay fit I think he could do a similar job for us to what Mascherano does for Liverpool (i.e. running round like a maniac, tackling everything that moves) with passing that is not noticeably any worse than Mascherano and the added bonus of excellent delivery from set-pieces / competent long-range shooting.

Put it this way, if we sold Hargreaves tomorrow and signed an injury-free version of him as replacement I would think our midfield options suddenly look as good as anyone out there.
Who would be Hargreaves' partner (I assume in a 442)? I wonder if that solves the midfield "strength" problem but at the expense of making the midfield "creativity" problem worse?

[THE HARGOMETER]

Schkauß!!

:lol::lol::lol:
 
Did it? 2 years ago we had Hargreaves and a better functioning Paul Scholes. Last year Giggs was on fire. Who does it this year? I don't think we have improved in that department from 2 years ago.

Like you have said though no one really is available that i could think of.
Hargreaves will be available and Scholes had his problems too. This time, we have an improved Fletcher, a more mature Anderson and hopefully a more determined Carrick. There is really no one available that would really improve us or make sure we'll get again to the final
 
Hargreaves isn't the saviour you all seem to think he is, even if he managed to stay fit for any significant length of time.

Other than his stamina, I fail to see the fuss.

He's also quick (I remember hearing was right up there amongst the quickest in our whole squad) tough and aggresive. All three are qualities we occasionally lack from our midfield.

He hasn't shown nearly enough creatively but an optimistic opinion would be that this will get better as he settles into the new team/league.
 
He's also quick (I remember hearing was right up there amongst the quickest in our whole squad) tough and aggresive. All three are qualities we occasionally lack from our midfield.

He hasn't shown nearly enough creatively but an optimistic opinion would be that this will get better as he settles into the new team/league.

Well he's not going to be quick now is he!! Take Michael Owen and Alan Shearer of examples of pace going after knee ops, and he's had two.
 
Well he's not going to be quick now is he!! Take Michael Owen and Alan Shearer of examples of pace going after knee ops, and he's had two.

Different ops, to be fair. And there's plenty of players who had the same op as Owen and Shearer without losing any pace (e.g. our own Ruud and Wes Brown)

I can't think of any player who's had the same op as Hargreaves so yeah, there's a possibility he'll lose some pace. Fingers crossed he doesn't.
 
Different ops, to be fair. And there's plenty of players who had the same op as Owen and Shearer without losing any pace (e.g. our own Ruud and Wes Brown)

I can't think of any player who's had the same op as Hargreaves so yeah, there's a possibility he'll lose some pace. Fingers crossed he doesn't.

To be fair Ruud wasn't as fast as when at PSV and Wes fair play did get his pace back but was awfully slow when he orginally returned. Hopefully he'll recover well enough. I forgot about Keane too who made a good recovery.
 
it's surely got to be a bad thing that he's had an operation on both knees, right?

It's not a good thing, that's for sure!

But there are footballers and athletes all over the world who've bounced back from major surgery just as quick/athletic as they were before the op.

There's no guarantees, obviously, but it would be just as wrong to say he will definitely be slower than it would be to say he will be exactly the same. He's gone to a fantastic surgeon so all we can do is hope for the best.
 
Esteemed football writer Matt Dickinson believes Manchester United’s midfield is not good enough to win the Champions League

We know that already, having watched the last final.

The respected sports writer claims the best midfield combinations in the Premier League belong to United’s rivals Chelsea and Liverpool

Alonso is gone, Gerrard plays behind the striker, is Mascherano-Lucas really that good?

“The formation draws attention to the fact that the most effective, most dominant central midfield players in the Premier League — Michael Essien, Frank Lampard, Mascherano, Steven Gerrard, Cesc Fàbregas — all play for United’s rivals. Perhaps you might add Gareth Barry.”

Who had the better midfield in the champions league semi-final?
..
 
I remember when it was easy, our best midfield was either Hargreaves and Anderson or Carrick and Scholes, we've lost half of each, it's not ideal.
 
Cascarino is a complete knob. I cannot state that enough.

Yeah, he is. That said, Noble is a very good young player, but he's completely different because he CAN tackle but his passing is nowhere in Scholes' class.
 
Hargreaves will make a massive difference to our midfield, TBH had he stayed fit I don't even think this thread would have existed. When you consider the combinations with him being available it really does look a massively improved area of the pitch. Example Hargreaves and Carrick combination could force itself into the world cup with Gerrard playing behind Rooney.
 
Rooney will be left isolated with Gerrard having to help both the CMs to keep better possession of the ball. Hargreaves is just crap at it and Carrick will find himself being kick and having someone stuck to him like his shadow.
 
My impression is that when Fergie bought Carrick and Hargreaves he wanted an English version of the Pirlo-Gattuso combo at Milan. Carrick would be our Pirlo (in the playermaker role, deployed just in front of the back 4) and Hargreaves our Gattuso (doing the dirty work all over the pitch)
 
Dickinson hasn't really pointed out anything most of us don't already know and as a fellow poster noted, SAF's thoughts about our midfield weakness where underpinned by the signing of Hargreaves.
Admittedly Fletcher has come on a bundle, and maybe after a good debut season, SAF like most of us got to believing Anderson might quickly develop into a world-class midfielder ahead of schedule. Add to this the belief that Hargreaves will return as the same player after such intrusive surgery, all seems to indicate we should get the owners to use their contacts to employ a top US evangelist.
I, like most of you would like to see the young guns come through the ranks, and be given the chance to impress and stake their claim for a 1st team spot. But the midfield is unlike any other area of the park, matches are won with goals, though the outcome of who wins the wars is invariably determined in the middle of the field.
We all truly hope that somebody has laid their healing hands on Hargreaves, SAF's love child will be possessed by Matthaus, Anderson adds consistency and maturity to his games and both Giggs and Scholes have once again discovered the fountain of youth.
But assuming one or none of these prayers are answered this season, should we not be investing in a fall back plan to usurp such an eventuality and purchase a midfield power house. There are enough games in the season to facilitate an additional midfielder while not upsetting the established, or restricting other players.
I hope SAF is merely creating a smoke screen like the seasoned desert fox, though I have this inherent fear that we are going to be subject to SAF’s faith in the power of healing and a Glaswegian love child as our only means of defense against those who wish to destroy us.
 
Dickinson hasn't really pointed out anything most of us don't already know and as a fellow poster noted, SAF's thoughts about our midfield weakness where underpinned by the signing of Hargreaves.
Admittedly Fletcher has come on a bundle, and maybe after a good debut season, SAF like most of us got to believing Anderson might quickly develop into a world-class midfielder ahead of schedule. Add to this the belief that Hargreaves will return as the same player after such intrusive surgery, all seems to indicate we should get the owners to use their contacts to employ a top US evangelist.
I, like most of you would like to see the young guns come through the ranks, and be given the chance to impress and stake their claim for a 1st team spot. But the midfield is unlike any other area of the park, matches are won with goals, though the outcome of who wins the wars is invariably determined in the middle of the field.
We all truly hope that somebody has laid their healing hands on Hargreaves, SAF's love child will be possessed by Matthaus, Anderson adds consistency and maturity to his games and both Giggs and Scholes have once again discovered the fountain of youth.
But assuming one or none of these prayers are answered this season, should we not be investing in a fall back plan to usurp such an eventuality and purchase a midfield power house. There are enough games in the season to facilitate an additional midfielder while not upsetting the established, or restricting other players.
I hope SAF is merely creating a smoke screen like the seasoned desert fox, though I have this inherent fear that we are going to be subject to SAF’s faith in the power of healing and a Glaswegian love child as our only means of defense against those who wish to destroy us.

Amen. But who would available at the right price?
 
I think we will have to revert to 4-3-3 to be successful this year
 
Looking forwards to seeing the Anderson - Carrick combo against a competitive but very beatable side. Hopefully they can control the game and dictate some flowing football!
 
If people don't think our centre mids are good enough why are you obsessed with playing 3 of them!?

Play 2 strikers and 2 attacking wingers - goals goals goals!
 
Surely even at the least that's saying our centre midfield isn't good enough for 442.
Which IMO is mistaken. It's far from what saying. It's our wings that aren't that good for a 4-4-2. We lack top draw quality there. We only posses potential. That is why our midfield looks exceptional when we have 3 men in it and thin when we have 2 in the middle. Our proven attacking quality is down the center and not out wide.
 
Looking forwards to seeing the Anderson - Carrick combo against a competitive but very beatable side. Hopefully they can control the game and dictate some flowing football!
TBH unless Anderson steps up positional sense wise, that combo is as bad as when Liverpool paired Alonso with Gerard. Carrick's propensity to almost never tackle and complete lack of graft would never cover for Anderson' positional flaws.