Central midfield this season...

Walrus said:
Another poor performance by Carrick last night, he and Neville were our worst players easily I reckon.
Carrick needs to really pull himself together - Wes Brown and Nani have both been dropped for long periods because of "poor performance" and frankly Carrick is playing worse at the moment than either of those two did.
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I think you're just very overcritical of our midfielders naturally anyway more than anything.

'Scholes is past it', 'Carrick-Fletcher's not good enough' etc.

He's not playing worse than Nani was, he's still someone you can rely on to be solid and not make many mistakes. Nani made too many.
 
Brwned said:
I think you're just very overcritical of our midfielders naturally anyway more than anything.

'Scholes is past it', 'Carrick-Fletcher's not good enough' etc.

He's not playing worse than Nani was, he's still someone you can rely on to be solid and not make many mistakes. Nani made too many.
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I agree here. Carrick wasn't that bad. He started off poorly but came into the game a lot more as the match went on.
 
First half he drifted out of play too much, wasn't an awful performance from him though.
 
Nothing to do with underrating. Carrick had complete nightmare against Besiktas. Bad passing, bad finish, bad decision-making, one of the worst players on the pitch. Both Scholes and Anderson played much better than him.
 
Brwned said:
I think you're just very overcritical of our midfielders naturally anyway more than anything.

'Scholes is past it', 'Carrick-Fletcher's not good enough' etc.

He's not playing worse than Nani was, he's still someone you can rely on to be solid and not make many mistakes. Nani made too many.
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i am critical of our midfielders because im yet to be convinced that our central midfield options are anything like the same level as almost any other top team (barca, chelsea, liverpool, madrid, even arsenal have a case). virtually every match we are hearing "its not united at their best, but they got the victory" - points are great, but good performances are also nice, and the central midfield is in many ways the most important area of the team - its not a position we can really afford to be so weak in, when compared to others.

i do think the excessive rotation is a factor here too, mind you. most other teams have established first choice midfielders and then the backups, we seem to want to rotate endlessly between 5-6 options and wonder why they rarely seem to be able to get into form.

off to work now.
 
Name Changed said:
I agree here. Carrick wasn't that bad. He started off poorly but came into the game a lot more as the match went on.
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Strange, I had the opposite opinion. I felt he was starting to play himself back into a bit of form for the first 30 minutes or so, but then virtually disappeared for the next 30 minutes. Then got subbed off.

It was quite strange that in a midfield also containing Scholes and Anderson it was Carrick who was generally getting into the more attacking positions.
 
MadDogg said:
Strange, I had the opposite opinion. I felt he was starting to play himself back into a bit of form for the first 30 minutes or so, but then virtually disappeared for the next 30 minutes. Then got subbed off.

It was quite strange that in a midfield also containing Scholes and Anderson it was Carrick who was generally getting into the more attacking positions.
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The only thing he did right was get into attacking positions.
 
MadDogg said:
Strange, I had the opposite opinion. I felt he was starting to play himself back into a bit of form for the first 30 minutes or so, but then virtually disappeared for the next 30 minutes. Then got subbed off.

It was quite strange that in a midfield also containing Scholes and Anderson it was Carrick who was generally getting into the more attacking positions.
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I was concentrating a lot to see how his passing went. He gave the ball away four times for no reason in the first few minutes. He fared better after that, on the ball anyway.
 
Walrus said:
i am critical of our midfielders because im yet to be convinced that our central midfield options are anything like the same level as almost any other top team (barca, chelsea, liverpool, madrid, even arsenal have a case). virtually every match we are hearing "its not united at their best, but they got the victory" - points are great, but good performances are also nice, and the central midfield is in many ways the most important area of the team - its not a position we can really afford to be so weak in, when compared to others.

i do think the excessive rotation is a factor here too, mind you. most other teams have established first choice midfielders and then the backups, we seem to want to rotate endlessly between 5-6 options and wonder why they rarely seem to be able to get into form.

off to work now.
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We don't rotate that much. Fletcher is first choice, as he has been for the last season and a bit.

You are just very pessimistic. You obviously haven't looked at how our midfield normally plays against the better sides that you have mentioned.
 
Name Changed said:
We don't rotate that much. Fletcher is first choice, as he has been for the last season and a bit.

You are just very pessimistic. You obviously haven't looked at how our midfield normally plays against the better sides that you have mentioned.
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Fletcher wasnt really first choice the earlier part of last season. Granted he has earned his current status as first choice, based on his form, but he is still far from a guaranteed starter. We do rotate in midfield, a lot more than other top clubs - Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Giggs, Scholes and Gibson (and Hargreaves when back) competing for 2 spots, of course there is rotation.

Other teams of our level tend to have far more established first choices. If you ask Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca or Madrid (etc) who their first choice CMs are, they will be able to tell you. With us, its never so certain and that results in it being harder for our players to get a run of matches to get into form.


Maybe I just expect too much, but no, our midfield hasnt performed that well in the big matches. More often than not we are overrun in the middle and it leaves us with major problems. Last season we had Ronaldo, who often could be relied on for a moment of magic to turn the game around. This season we havent been tested enough to see exactly how we will fare; but against Arsenal, whilst we did win, it was pretty unaminous that we played poorly and probably didnt deserve it.
 
Walrus said:
Fletcher wasnt really first choice the earlier part of last season. Granted he has earned his current status as first choice, based on his form, but he is still far from a guaranteed starter. We do rotate in midfield, a lot more than other top clubs - Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Giggs, Scholes and Gibson (and Hargreaves when back) competing for 2 spots, of course there is rotation.

Other teams of our level tend to have far more established first choices. If you ask Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca or Madrid (etc) who their first choice CMs are, they will be able to tell you. With us, its never so certain and that results in it being harder for our players to get a run of matches to get into form.


Maybe I just expect too much, but no, our midfield hasnt performed that well in the big matches. More often than not we are overrun in the middle and it leaves us with major problems. Last season we had Ronaldo, who often could be relied on for a moment of magic to turn the game around. This season we havent been tested enough to see exactly how we will fare; but against Arsenal, whilst we did win, it was pretty unaminous that we played poorly and probably didnt deserve it.
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What? Fletcher is not a guaranteed starter? Yes he is. For any match of note, he will play unless he is injured or completely knackered. He started playing at the start of last season regularly so he was a regular then.

We have many players vying for the spot beside Fletcher. And they are all quality players, Giggs, Scholes, Anderson, Carrick and soon Hargreaves. There is nothing wrong with competition.

Other teams only have a regular midfield because they have not got other players to come in. Who the hell do Liverpool bring in to play instead of Lucas or Mascherano? Arsenal can only bring in a player like Song. Chelsea are stuck with an aging and deteriorating Deco. I don't know why you seem to think having competition and choices in midfield is some kind of disadvantage.

Our midfield has performed well in the big matches. It probably relies to much on Fletcher though. If he plays, we tend not to lose and to generally win the midfield battle. If he is missing, Carrick tends to play like a headless chicken in his absence.

Our midfield is good enough. I would back Fletcher and Carrick against any two from any other midfield in England.
 
Lailiani said:
Nothing to do with underrating. Carrick had complete nightmare against Besiktas. Bad passing, bad finish, bad decision-making, one of the worst players on the pitch. Both Scholes and Anderson played much better than him.
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Agree.

For someone whose main asset is passing it's strange how it's become so bad when he's off form.
 
Walrus said:
Fletcher wasnt really first choice the earlier part of last season. Granted he has earned his current status as first choice, based on his form, but he is still far from a guaranteed starter. We do rotate in midfield, a lot more than other top clubs - Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Giggs, Scholes and Gibson (and Hargreaves when back) competing for 2 spots, of course there is rotation.

Other teams of our level tend to have far more established first choices. If you ask Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barca or Madrid (etc) who their first choice CMs are, they will be able to tell you. With us, its never so certain and that results in it being harder for our players to get a run of matches to get into form.


Maybe I just expect too much, but no, our midfield hasnt performed that well in the big matches. More often than not we are overrun in the middle and it leaves us with major problems. Last season we had Ronaldo, who often could be relied on for a moment of magic to turn the game around. This season we havent been tested enough to see exactly how we will fare; but against Arsenal, whilst we did win, it was pretty unaminous that we played poorly and probably didnt deserve it.
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He scored one goal in the league against the top 4 last season, in a game we lost, through a penalty. So no, Ronaldo didn't have that big an impact when we were apparently overrun in midfield.

Oh and, FWIW, here's the possession stats for us against the big four last season:

Liverpool 2 Manchester United 1 - 46%
Chelsea 1 Manchester United 1 - 39%
Arsenal 2 Manchester United 1 - 54%
Manchester United 3 Chelsea 0 - 51%
Manchester United 1 Arsenal 0 - 51%
Manchester United 1 Liverpool 4 - 55%

It's pretty even, clearly, seeing as we had more possession every time we were at home and even had more at the Emirates. You can't expect to have the majority of possession away to a rival.
 
About time this thread was bumped to assess how everyone is getting on this season. For me, central midfield has been our strongest area of the squad this season and the signs are now that everyone is coming into some form which is a big positive with Liverpool and Chelsea coming up.

Fletcher = consistently very good and overall our best central midfielder this season. Enough has been said on Fletcher this season so I don't need to labour the points here.

Scholes = Again consistently good for the most parts with some masterclass performances such as against Stoke and Spurs. Had one horrible game against Sunderland but he generally been far better this season that last.

Anderson = Consistently good since he has got a run in the side since the Spurs game. Individually I don't think his level of performance has been as high as some of the individual performances Scholes and Fletcher have managed but the main problem with Anderson has always been consistency and I can't recall one poor game he has had this season and he is not fading out of games either. Definitely more to come from him but the signs are encouraging.

Carrick - Started the season well below his normal standards but seems to be getting back to the norm with his recent displays against Wolves and Wolfsburg. Also thought he was decent yesterday and will probably feature at Anfield if we play with three central midfielders.

Can't really rate Gibson who has hardly got a game this season.

We are not really any closer to knowing who SAF favours as a partnership due to the heavy rotation employed but we know Fergie normally goes with Fletcher, Carrick and Anderson whenever we play three in midfield and this is likely what he will put in place for the big massive away games coming up against Chelsea and Liverpool. Can't recall United ever losing a match when those three have been played together.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
About time this thread was bumped to assess how everyone is getting on this season. For me, central midfield has been our strongest area of the squad this season and the signs are now that everyone is coming into some form which is a big positive with Liverpool and Chelsea coming up.

Fletcher = consistently very good and overall our best central midfielder this season. Enough has been said on Fletcher this season so I don't need to labour the points here.

Scholes = Again consistently good for the most parts with some masterclass performances such as against Stoke and Spurs. Had one horrible game against Sunderland but he generally been far better this season that last.

Anderson = Consistently good since he has got a run in the side since the Spurs game. Individually I don't think his level of performance has been as high as some of the individual performances Scholes and Fletcher have managed but the main problem with Anderson has always been consistency and I can't recall one poor game he has had this season and he is not fading out of games either. Definitely more to come from him but the signs are encouraging.

Carrick - Started the season well below his normal standards but seems to be getting back to the norm with his recent displays against Wolves and Wolfsburg. Also thought he was decent yesterday and will probably feature at Anfield if we play with three central midfielders.

Can't really rate Gibson who has hardly got a game this season.

We are not really any closer to knowing who SAF favours as a partnership due to the heavy rotation employed but we know Fergie normally goes with Fletcher, Carrick and Anderson whenever we play three in midfield and this is likely what he will put in place for the big massive away games coming up against Chelsea and Liverpool. Can't recall United ever losing a match when those three have been played together.
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good assessment of the midfield so far but one thing we are relying on them to do is score goals...

so far carrick has one vrs wolfsberg - a goal that turned out to be the difference between the teams

anderson scored an important goal at spurs to help us comeback in that game

scholes got the winner at besiktas in a 1-0 win

fletcher of course did great in the derby grabbing two to help us beat city

nani got one at wigan and valencia did well yesterday with an excellent performance and a cracking team goal

i would say so far so good as all the midfield players are chipping in goals although not at a great rate - we showed last season that you don't have to be beating teams 3 and 4-0 every week to win the league - with a strong defence, control of games and VDS back we can win lots of games by the odd goal. Hopefully valencia can continue on from his excellent form yesterday and the midfielders can chip in with a few more goals

so far we've relied on giggs, rooney and berbatov who have all been excellent but we can't really rely on them the whole season

keep it up midfielders and a few more goals please!
 
Yeah good assessment. In Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, and Scholes, we have 4 central midfielders who are in good form. Fletcher and Scholes started off the season very well, but were a bit off par against Sunderland. Carrick and Anderson started slow but now look to becoming into some very good form.

Against Liverpool, I wouldn't be surprised if Fergie opts for a similar system to the one we used at Spurs. 4 across the midfield but no real wingers. It worked very well on the day and allowed us to play Rooney and Berbatov together up front.

left....................................................right


Giggs..........Anderson.........Carrick........Fletcher
 
johnmufc said:
Yeah good assessment. In Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, and Scholes, we have 4 central midfielders who are in good form. Fletcher and Scholes started off the season very well, but were a bit off par against Sunderland. Carrick and Anderson started slow but now look to becoming into some very good form.

Against Liverpool, I wouldn't be surprised if Fergie opts for a similar system to the one we used at Spurs. 4 across the midfield but no real wingers. It worked very well on the day and allowed us to play Rooney and Berbatov together up front.

left....................................................right


Giggs..........Anderson.........Carrick........Fletcher
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That would not work in my opinion. First of all, why move Fletcher out to the wing? He has been our best midfielder. I would play him and Anderson in the middle. Second, I would put Nani on the wing. He should be able to tear Johnson apart.

Carrick has not done enough this season to gain a midfield spot at Fletcher's expense, against the Dippers.

Alternatively, if we were to play a 4-3-3, the front 6 could look like this:

---Giggs-------Rooney--------Nani

---Anderson---Carrick--------Fletcher
 
adexkola said:
That would not work in my opinion. First of all, why move Fletcher out to the wing? He has been our best midfielder. I would play him and Anderson in the middle. Second, I would put Nani on the wing. He should be able to tear Johnson apart.

Carrick has not done enough this season to gain a midfield spot at Fletcher's expense, against the Dippers.

Alternatively, if we were to play a 4-3-3, the front 6 could look like this:

---Giggs-------Rooney--------Nani

---Anderson---Carrick--------Fletcher
Click to expand...

Berbatov is a must against Liverpool. Pool give the ball away a lot and Berbatov's class and control will give us chances,
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
About time this thread was bumped to assess how everyone is getting on this season. For me, central midfield has been our strongest area of the squad this season and the signs are now that everyone is coming into some form which is a big positive with Liverpool and Chelsea coming up.

Fletcher = consistently very good and overall our best central midfielder this season. Enough has been said on Fletcher this season so I don't need to labour the points here.

Scholes = Again consistently good for the most parts with some masterclass performances such as against Stoke and Spurs. Had one horrible game against Sunderland but he generally been far better this season that last.

Anderson = Consistently good since he has got a run in the side since the Spurs game. Individually I don't think his level of performance has been as high as some of the individual performances Scholes and Fletcher have managed but the main problem with Anderson has always been consistency and I can't recall one poor game he has had this season and he is not fading out of games either. Definitely more to come from him but the signs are encouraging.

Carrick - Started the season well below his normal standards but seems to be getting back to the norm with his recent displays against Wolves and Wolfsburg. Also thought he was decent yesterday and will probably feature at Anfield if we play with three central midfielders.

Can't really rate Gibson who has hardly got a game this season.

We are not really any closer to knowing who SAF favours as a partnership due to the heavy rotation employed but we know Fergie normally goes with Fletcher, Carrick and Anderson whenever we play three in midfield and this is likely what he will put in place for the big massive away games coming up against Chelsea and Liverpool. Can't recall United ever losing a match when those three have been played together.
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Spot on post.
 
I have been wondering how comes our midfield are always Scholes-Fletcher, Carrick-Anderson, or Carrick-Fletcher... but hardly ever Fletcher-Anderson
 
adexkola said:
That would not work in my opinion. First of all, why move Fletcher out to the wing? He has been our best midfielder. I would play him and Anderson in the middle. Second, I would put Nani on the wing. He should be able to tear Johnson apart.

Carrick has not done enough this season to gain a midfield spot at Fletcher's expense, against the Dippers.

Alternatively, if we were to play a 4-3-3, the front 6 could look like this:

---Giggs-------Rooney--------Nani

---Anderson---Carrick--------Fletcher
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What on earth has Nani done this season to warrant a starting place against Liverpool ahead of Berbatov?
 
Pat_Mustard said:
What on earth has Nani done this season to warrant a starting place against Liverpool ahead of Berbatov?
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we wont be playing 4-3-3 anyway, we simply dont suit that formation whatsoever. None of our three forwards want to play wide, and none are particularly good as lone striker.

It will be 4-4-2 with Rooney/Berba up front. My guess for midfield will be;

Park - Carrick - Fletcher - Valencia


though personally i would rather see Nani and Anderson/Giggs playing alongside Fletcher.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
What on earth has Nani done this season to warrant a starting place against Liverpool ahead of Berbatov?
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In a 4-3-3, unless you want to move Rooney out on the wing, I prefer wingers in those positions.

If you read carefully, I said, assuming we play 4-3-3... I think we will play 4-4-2, in which case Berbatov will start.
 
The midfield we will play against Liverpool:

Anderson,Fletcher on the center, Giggs and Valencia on the wings
Rooney Berbatov up front..
 
adexkola said:
That would not work in my opinion. First of all, why move Fletcher out to the wing? He has been our best midfielder. I would play him and Anderson in the middle. Second, I would put Nani on the wing. He should be able to tear Johnson apart.

Carrick has not done enough this season to gain a midfield spot at Fletcher's expense, against the Dippers.

Alternatively, if we were to play a 4-3-3, the front 6 could look like this:

---Giggs-------Rooney--------Nani

---Anderson---Carrick--------Fletcher
Click to expand...

Like I said, it's really a winger-less formation. Fletcher won't really be playing on the wing. It will be similar to what we played against Spurs, and it worked very well. I do think Carrick will play instead of Scholes because he gives us a bit more defensively than Scholes.

So I guess it will be closer to this, with Giggs a bit more advanced and giving us natural width.

Rooney..... Berbatov

Giggs....................................................
Anderson.....Carrick.....Fletcher
​

This is just my opinion of course, but I do feel Fergie will play something similar to this, assuming everyone's fit.
 
The_Midfielder said:
The midfield we will play against Liverpool:

Anderson,Fletcher on the center, Giggs and Valencia on the wings
Rooney Berbatov up front..
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Fergie might sacrifice Rooney out wide for this game to get the three central midfielders into the side. Not my preference but it is a strong possibility as our track record with the Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson trio is very good.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
Fergie might sacrifice Rooney out wide for this game to get the three central midfielders into the side. Not my preference but it is a strong possibility as our track record with the Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson trio is very good.
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Having Rooney running at Johnson would be fun as well.

Though I still think I'd prefer a 4-4-2 with Nani on the left. He's beasted Johnson in nearly all their meetings, and no reason why that wouldn't continue.
 
I think Giggs will play on the wing anyway. Fletcher is the only central midfielder who is guaranteed a start barring any injuries. Rooney might be sacrificed but I think it'll be Fletch and Anderson in the middle. We may go with Carrick also which would mean Berbatov benched. It depends on Liverpool but I think they will go with a three man midfield.
 
Name Changed said:
I think Giggs will play on the wing anyway. Fletcher is the only central midfielder who is guaranteed a start barring any injuries. Rooney might be sacrificed but I think it'll be Fletch and Anderson in the middle. We may go with Carrick also which would mean Berbatov benched. It depends on Liverpool but I think they will go with a three man midfield.
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That's my concern. It doesn't really matter how shit a midfield is (and Liverpool's isn't great atm), when it's 3 vs 2, the 3 can get on top of the game.

This is why I wouldn't be too adverse to the idea of playing a midfield four of Nani - Anderson - Carrick - Fletcher.

If we're losing the midfield, Fletcher can tuck in to give support. If not he can do a good job out wide like he did against Spurs.

Giggs would be good on the left as well. He could give Johnson a hard time, no doubt.
 
johnmufc said:
Like I said, it's really a winger-less formation. Fletcher won't really be playing on the wing. It will be similar to what we played against Spurs, and it worked very well. I do think Carrick will play instead of Scholes because he gives us a bit more defensively than Scholes.

So I guess it will be closer to this, with Giggs a bit more advanced and giving us natural width.

Rooney..... Berbatov

Giggs....................................................
Anderson.....Carrick.....Fletcher
​

This is just my opinion of course, but I do feel Fergie will play something similar to this, assuming everyone's fit.
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That works for me
 
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