Charlottesville
- Thread starter Neutral
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
That's a misrepresentation itself, which would explain the bizarre comparison of Turkey's existence as a secular state and goons engaging in questionable actions. If you know enough about Turkey to disagree, go ahead and make the argument. As it is, you presented the argument basic on the aforementioned misrepresentation, meaning it doesn't make much sense anyway.
And to address the second point, that "one crazy guy" is part a movement that has been documented as employing many questionable tactics e.g. other assaults, ones which they themselves refer to as "righteous beatings." If that isn't inflaming the situation, good luck in describing it in a more positive light.
It's all gotten out of hand, sure, but you'll absolutely never convince me that they haven't significantly contributed towards the how volatile it's all become. Still, we can keep going around in circles and saying they're necessary in fighting the rise of fascism, and then the circle will once again be complete with another pointlessly reworded post that they're doing their part to make it more chaotic than it needs to be.
And you keep representing the argument as something it's not. I mean, honestly, we should stop calling them Nazis? Where did you get that from? How can anybody possibly have a rational debate on this matter when that's the direction you're looking to take it? Nobody said any such thing, and you just look silly with such statements.
Being against the Nazis is not a bad thing. Being against the Nazis whilst helping to cultivate a chaotic atmosphere is. Since you're in support of "whatever it takes," you obviously don't see anything wrong with their actions, which is great, because now you've openly stated that you're obdurate on the matter and in no refusing to listen to any arguments to the contrary.
Now, if you're going to present a more substantial argument beyond "Nazis are bad, you don't see that, therefore people like Antifa have to fight," it might be worth continuing, but I won't be holding my breath.
I only saw this an hour ago. It's sad and sick that we have situations like this in 2017. I want them to even attempt something like this in NY. It's only in these hillbilly towns where they can get away with this nonsense. Bunch of ugly cowards.
Private militia has arrived to support the Nazis
Blood & Soil...Blood & Soil
Significance of 'Blood & Soil'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Soil
Lol at the guy wearing ear defenders, in the first video. You're not at the shooting range you fecking idiot.
You're so right. I fell in love with NYC during a visit last year when Trump announced his Muslim ban and within 12 hours 35,000+ majority non.muslim New York people congregated in Battery Park On freezing cold Sunday to protest against him. Was so awe inspiring
Isn't Charlotteville supposed to be a fairly liberal town? Boston up next fwiw.
Let me be clear - yes I have zero tolerance for Nazi's because they have zero empathy, and have threatened violence against people who look like me.
I don't have the option to be even a little bit tolerant of their views, not an ounce of me will do so - maybe you do?
That doesn't mean I condone people being violent towards them - I'm not celebrating violence against them, this must be where you're getting confused - but am I going to feel sorry for them if it happens? Nope. Not while white supremacists are killing minorities at an alarming rate.
Now we're clear, I'm not advocating for people to be mean to the Nazis.
You haven't presented a substantial argument other than taking issue with those who have caused harm to the Nazis, and going above and beyond to criticise them and their actions, and not the Nazis.
I'm not even sure what stance you're taking other than to criticise antifas.
Private militia has arrived to support the Nazis
Blood & Soil...Blood & Soil
Significance of 'Blood & Soil'
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Soil
Those militia guys are such cuuuuuuuunts. The absolute state of them. With their desert camouflage gear. On a city street. Stupid, goofy-looking twats playing soldiers. How the feck can they be allowed to congeregate in an area where tensions are so high. It's an absolute disgrace that they aren't being dealt with by the cops. The mind boggles what the police would do if a bunch of Black Lives Matters turned up as heavily armed.
I think the police themselves might be afraid to let it get to an armed confrontation with this idiots. But you're right yeah, if it was the other way around things would've probably been handled a whole lot differently
Charlottesville is anything but a 'hillbilly' town. As with most university towns - it's progressive. You guys saw the deputy mayor, city manager and police chief - all black.
But, it's also an old town and one with history...and historical monuments. Which is what has been attracting the racists to town in recent months.
This truly was the work of outsiders.
However, there were 2 events. There was a torch-lit march to the statue on Friday night, where I didn't see any police in the photos/videos, and where the mob surrounded* ~8-10 students.
There was much more presence of every kind next day (which is when the killing happened) - when the gun-wielding "oath keeper" mlitias arrived, large numbers of peaceful activists arrived, also armed leftists, and finally police. From twitter, it looks like there was a number of low-level incidents like pepper-spraying and smoke bombs, before the car thing, and the police ordered them to disperse.
*according to twitter the students were pepper-sprayed, but I didn't see any photos.
Nor have you, instead going with the incessant misrepresentation (repetitive to say, but it keeps happening) of any arguments. There's absolutely no nuance to the argument put forward that would potentially complicate it, so saying "I'm not even sure what stance you're taking other than to criticise antifas" sounds incredibly obtuse. The arguments has always been that Antifa have significantly contributed towards creating a chaotic environment.
That's not an exoneration of Nazis, and your insistence that it's not fair because they haven't been criticised is extremely pointless, because if there's any subtext to the entire debate, it's that Nazis are assholes and it goes without saying. There's also not any argument about censoring Antifa e.g. "that they should be the one to stop calling them Nazi's."
These are all fictitious arguments that make Antifa sound hard done by, when in reality they just need to stop acting like a load of cnuts and inflaming the situation further.
Yep. Totally snacks of that
NY isn't some post racial, bigotry free nirvana...not when Rep Peter King continues to be in congress.
Google Peter King and his views on American Muslims
Of course it's not. But given 9/11 I was delightfully surprised by the response of the majority. 70+% votes against Trump if I remember correctly?NY isn't some post racial, bigotry free nirvana...not when Rep Peter King continues to be in congress.
Google Peter King and his views on American Muslims
Anyways I'll Google the chap you mentioned and get all depressed again!
@Kentonio
So, if you voted for Trump don't complain if you have rocks thrown at you if you voice that support in public? I'm far from comfortable with that, funnily enough. Your definition of "openly racist" is vastly different to a very sizeable amount of people's so we're probably going to end up going around in circles here.
The quote Shapiro gives about Bannon wanting to "give a platform to the alt-right" is from before the alt-right had asserted itself as a white supremacist movement and was used to describe the entire anti-PC/anti-SJW crowd, BTW. There's no way he'd say that now.
So, if you voted for Trump don't complain if you have rocks thrown at you if you voice that support in public? I'm far from comfortable with that, funnily enough. Your definition of "openly racist" is vastly different to a very sizeable amount of people's so we're probably going to end up going around in circles here.
The quote Shapiro gives about Bannon wanting to "give a platform to the alt-right" is from before the alt-right had asserted itself as a white supremacist movement and was used to describe the entire anti-PC/anti-SJW crowd, BTW. There's no way he'd say that now.
RIPEveryone will be hearing a lot about Fields in the coming weeks but few will likely talk about the woman killed, 32 y.o. Heather Heyer whose FB page apparently had the following last post "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention"
I would arrest all these feckers and charge them as traitors remove the American citizenship from them and kick them to NKorea or Venezuela.
You mean like when they asked Bannon whether the alt-right had racists and white supremicists and he said yes they were there?
Think Raqqa would be a better bet considering their supremacist ideology is more in tune with ISIS.
No surprise at all to see you defending him either.
Sounds like a nice bloke.
You're rewriting things here.
I quoted soap originally because his original point was that 'anyone right of centre is seen as a Nazi' I simply said that these people are outwardly calling themselves Nazi's, and those who aren't Nazi's should outwardly condemn not only their actions, but their ideology and distance themselves from their narrative.
That was the original argument.
After we established this, you engaged in whataboutism and decided to focus on the left, and brought in antifa for no reason other than, from what I can see at least, your own personal dislike of them; for example - I said there's no room for hate speech and you decided to say there's no room to go out and assault people, why?
Why do you feel the need to direct the conversation back to antifa when we're talking about Nazi's, and why it's important for those right of Centre to distance themselves, you felt the need to continually bring up the violence of antifa?
Then when I did exactly what you did, and said 'what about the violence of the white supremacists being more of a threat than antifa?' not only did you ignore this, you simply said that they are enabling each other, as if the blame is shared.
Clearly you hold some strong opinions against antifa that you couldn't hold back and felt the need to discuss with someone, but why you keep insisting me to engage that conversation with you is beyond me, I've already said I don't condone their violence, nor do I applaud or encourage it.
You actually have anything worthwhile to say?
I think this counts as irony too.
I'll take that as a no. As usual.
Same.
Let's get one thing straight. There was nothing wrong with what @Pogue Mahone said. If anyone finds that sort of thing upsetting then they may be better off avoiding posting here.
So we have a white supremacists U.S president, wannabe 'Nazis' and comic book 'Militias' roaming a small city in the U.S, and there's still some (amazingly even some here) blaming the 'antifas' while trying to create the impression that they themselves are objective, 'in the middle' and obviously not racists. One couldn't make it up .
There's no argument to be had. They are what they defend.
Edit: I'd laugh, but people are being hurt and killed as a consequence of this. Those defending them in the public share a moral responsibility for their actions. To top it all off they've started wearing the sacred Redwings logo. I wasn't going to care, or occupy myself by paying attention to these little feckwits, but that made my blood boil.
.There's no argument to be had. They are what they defend.
Edit: I'd laugh, but people are being hurt and killed as a consequence of this. Those defending them in the public share a moral responsibility for their actions. To top it all off they've started wearing the sacred Redwings logo. I wasn't going to care, or occupy myself by paying attention to these little feckwits, but that made my blood boil.
Last edited:
Now what did Korea or Venezuela do to deserve that lot?
This.
Iirc, the background to this protest by the whites is about taking down a statue of General Lee, and renaming parks from (Stonewall) "Jackson" and "Lee" to "Justice" and "Emancipation". White southerners still fighting the civil war don't like that.
Similar issues in other southern cities have been going on for a few years now.
And there's plenty more to come imo.
Fwiw, I think it'd be wrong to remove the confederate soldier statue on the main street in Alexandria, Virginia for example.
It's part of the history and could be used to point out how different times are now.
Kessler was the organizer...the audacity to show up for today to hold a press conference
Nice way to travel...
Nice way to travel...
Sounds like a nice bloke.
I know that area he grew up in fairly well, I've thought many things about that community but not necessarily somewhere you'd find a Nazi sympathizer. It's very white and middle class with several surrounding communities which are considerably more affluent. It comes as no surprise that basically he comes from the suburb that actually has a gun range and has zero exposure to minorities of any kind
Still, knowing a community like that can produce nutters like that is a reminder that lunacy lurks on everyone's corner
Actually, you are. Here's why:
Antifa was the original argument. Nobody brought it in later. Don't pretend like the subject was changed. soap brought it all up with this:
After which I replied with:
There's no ambiguity as to whether or not Antifa was part of the initial discussion. Kentonio then initiated a debate that Antifa was still central to. Nobody brought them into an ongoing debate unnecessarily, they already were what the debate was about. Not only are you completely rewriting what was said, you're now making out that the debate was something else entirely.
Far from it being a case of me having any deep-seated resentment towards Antifa, I'd say what's more peculiar here is your continued insistence on trying to reframe the debate to make it look like something it wasn't. And that last point is pretty amusing, particularly coming from the very same person who said...
... in response to criticism of the violence. What is it? Your lack of consistency and ability to stay on topic aren't doing you any favours.
That statue is different though...unnamed soldier and I think in a way it honors the memory of the dead and the bravery of the local fallen soldiers.
It could easily have been a union soldier a yankee rather than a Johnny Reb.
Yes, Pogue was spot on with his post. Absolutely correct. I can't understand why some people are getting wound up about it.
It is. And also why it probably won't be taken down.
There's no way they'd have a union soldier statue in Virginia, outside of federal land.