Chelsea 2016/17 - Very Content

[Treble_Winning]

I wonder if José will be found out too if United lose a game or if the magnetic field of Mother Earth just wasn't right, bad karma of the opponent or poor refereering will be blamed. I've learned already from Treble_Winning that thanks to José, United will have no blip by his sheer force but IMHO a single loss might still occur.

To be fair, even Fergie used to blame his losses on factors such as the studs on the goalkeeper's boots, the sogginess of the pitch, and the fact that the sunlight was reflected too strongly by the players' kits. There's nothing wrong with being a sore loser. In fact I want to have a sore loser as our manager. Someone who hates losing will automatically be more obsessed with winning, and Jose is certainly the same.

I have yet to see a UTD game where Jose was tactically outclassed by the other manager.

It is harder for him to get "found out" because he adapts and varies his tactics constantly as he did against Boro and West Ham. He doesn't rigidly stick to a single formation or playing style.

If and when he does get tactically outclassed, I will call a spade a spade and admit it, even if Jose doesn't. You have my word. Just that I haven't seen it happen so far and I doubt it ever will.

 

[Treble_Winning]

Everytime a manager loses a big game, he's been "found out."

I thought we'd all learned that by now.

I really hate saying I told you so. But a few days ago on the Caf I made a post about Chelsea's lack of height, and their vulnerability to aerial attacks. Particularly I named Azpilicueta (who apart from being small, isn't even a center back) and Moses (who is a forward being played out of position). I was ridiculed and called "delusional" because they had the least goals conceded in the league.

In addition I also stated that Luiz was a defensive liability due to his erratic movements and his lack of concentration. He is a DM, not a center back.

Guess I'm not so delusional anymore? Well.. I told you so.

The fact is that they have only ONE defender who can deal with aerial threats and that is Cahill. This makes them especially vulnerable since they only have 3 defenders. John Terry used to boss it at the back but he doesn't play any more.

 

[Minimalist]

Sure, but how can he carry on justifying the fact that he plays a full back as a centreback, a forward as a wing back, and leaves a player with 100 PL assists on the bench in favor of a water carrier who passes sideways and has poor technique? How can he justify having the most error prone DM in all of football as the main lynchpin in this back line?

His team selection is poor and finally he has been exposed by someone who knows how to counter his Plan A, which admittedly caught some folks off guard. And he doesn't appear to have a Plan B.

What fecking drugs are you on this week? Exposed? After 13 fecking wins on the trot?

 

[Moby]

I really hate saying I told you so. But a few days ago on the Caf I made a post about Chelsea's lack of height, and their vulnerability to aerial attacks. Particularly I named Azpilicueta (who apart from being small, isn't even a center back) and Moses (who is a forward being played out of position). I was ridiculed and called "delusional" because they had the least goals conceded in the league.

In addition I also stated that Luiz was a defensive liability due to his erratic movements and his lack of concentration. He is a DM, not a center back.

Guess I'm not so delusional anymore? Well.. I told you so.

The fact is that they have only ONE defender who can deal with aerial threats and that is Cahill. This makes them especially vulnerable since they only have 3 defenders. John Terry used to boss it at the back but he doesn't play any more.

So why did United with players like Ibra in their line up got thrashed 4-0?

 

[Treble_Winning]

What fecking drugs are you on this week? Exposed? After 13 fecking wins on the trot?

I said that Pochettino exposed him. Did you watch the game? Spurs completely stifled them and shut them down. All their passing lines were cut off. Hazard and Costa were anonymous and forced to play deep. Conte's 3-4-3 that took the league by surprise has finally been "solved". That is what I meant by exposed.

Their defence is much more vulnerable than the stats would show, and in the past 2 games we have seen exactly what weaknesses to target. Mourinho will be smiling to himself.

Fact of the matter is that they have only one true defender in the side and that is Cahill, and he isn't even a very good defender. They're playing a back three that consists of a CB, a full back and a DM. It is a weird and mismatched back line.

 

[D2Z]

Why hasn't Conte come out and apologized to the fans / supporters for that abysmal performance?

He was tactically naive and had no answer to Pochettino's formation and system, which was set up specifically to nullify Chelsea. Spurs have done the whole league a huge service now, he has found the antidote so to speak, and I believe Conte now faces an uphill task.

The next one to get found out will be Klopp. I won't even mention Guardiola because he has already been found out.

So much for those who insisted that Jose was an old-fashioned manager and that Conte / Klopp were better equipped for the modern game. When was the last time Jose was tactically outclassed and had no response whatsoever? At least he changes his system and shows some flexibility, depending on what is happening in the game. His subs / tactical changes in the Boro and West Ham games were decisive. Conte failed to make any impact despite the fact that his team was losing. Spurs completely suffocated them. I have never seen Hazard and Costa so anonymous.

Did you see Chelsea all season last year?

How can you say these managers have been found out or will be found out? Pep and Conte are in their first season and need time to stamp their authority and team identity on the team; meanwhile Conte is 13 wins 1 loss in the past 14 games. That is 39 points out of 42. Phenomenal record. Pep will need time to get him team playing the way he wants it to, because it is not an easy playstyle to master. Klopp is already reaping rewards this season out of the team identity he is building with Liverpool.

 

[Minimalist]

I said that Pochettino exposed him. Did you watch the game? Spurs completely stifled them and shut them down. All their passing lines were cut off. Hazard and Costa were anonymous and forced to play deep. Conte's 3-4-3 that took the league by surprise has finally been "solved". That is what I meant by exposed.

You can do that in one match can you? The word exposed doesn't mean what you think it does.

According to you Ferguson was exposed at some point every single season. I'm sure like Ferguson, Conte won't give two fecks when Chelsea beat all the middle/lower sides in the PL and lift the trophy.

 

[Nickosaur]

@Treble_Winning is on some other astral plane to the rest of us

 

[Crossie]

To be fair, even Fergie used to blame his losses on factors such as the studs on the goalkeeper's boots, the sogginess of the pitch, and the fact that the sunlight was reflected too strongly by the players' kits. There's nothing wrong with being a sore loser. In fact I want to have a sore loser as our manager. Someone who hates losing will automatically be more obsessed with winning, and Jose is certainly the same.

I have yet to see a UTD game where Jose was tactically outclassed by the other manager.

It is harder for him to get "found out" because he adapts and varies his tactics constantly as he did against Boro and West Ham. He doesn't rigidly stick to a single formation or playing style.

If and when he does get tactically outclassed, I will call a spade a spade and admit it, even if Jose doesn't. You have my word. Just that I haven't seen it happen so far and I doubt it ever will.

Sorry to say but whatever you're inhaling must be good stuff. The level of delusion and bias is unreal.

 

[AR87]

Sorry to say but whatever you're inhaling must be good stuff. The level of delusion and bias is unreal.

Maybe it's the same stuff Pep is on

 

[Crossie]

Maybe it's the same stuff Pep is on

Nah, it might come close but Pep's is not as 'super-super' as T_W's. Could be from the same pharmacological class though.

 

[AshfordLad]

That thread title.

A silly conte indeed.

 

[notcool]

I really hate saying I told you so. But a few days ago on the Caf I made a post about Chelsea's lack of height, and their vulnerability to aerial attacks. Particularly I named Azpilicueta (who apart from being small, isn't even a center back) and Moses (who is a forward being played out of position). I was ridiculed and called "delusional" because they had the least goals conceded in the league.

Sometimes it's not about height. Just look at Messi's goal against us in 2009.

 

[AshfordLad]

@Treble_Winning is on some other astral plane to the rest of us

Sorry to say but whatever you're inhaling must be good stuff. The level of delusion and bias is unreal.

No. This has to be an early AI from the 90s that miserably failed its turing test.

Then again I thought the same about Glaston for a while.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Can't believe i have to defend Chelsea! How can you criticize Conte after first defeat in more than 3 months, 13 straight wins and 32 goals scored and only 4 conceded? How can you criticize someone who was able to make Moses and David Luiz look world class?

Just another day on the knee-jerking 'Caf.

 

[Fortitude]

No. This has to be an early AI from the 90s that miserably failed its turing test.

Then again I thought the same about Glaston for a while.

 

[Grunge]

I can't see them losing to Leicester but maybe a draw (fingers crossed) - they're in ridiculously good form and I don't think a loss at Tottenham will derail them. It's not like they were battered, they are two very evenly matched teams IMO.

It was a good match, pretty even I must say. A typical example of a match hinging on a mistake or two. That said, did Chelsea choke under the pressure of the pending record or were the spuds better than expected. I must say Wannyama & Dembele were exceptional & Dele wasn't bad either was he

Yh I meant Blind vs Moses with Moses attacking - will go past him every time. Agreed about Courtois, I think he bottled it as he thought he was going to headbutt the post.

Agreed - no way Jose would put Blind up against Blind, would he? Martial or Rashford would play of course and either in their current form would significantly peg Moses back and as we saw on Wednesday, Moses has more then a few defensive shortfalls.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Just another day on the knee-jerking 'Caf.

You just have to congratulate them. End of it.

 

[prath92]

no way Jose would put Blind up against Blind

That definitely won't happen

 

[Revan]

Why hasn't Conte come out and apologized to the fans / supporters for that abysmal performance?

He was tactically naive and had no answer to Pochettino's formation and system, which was set up specifically to nullify Chelsea. Spurs have done the whole league a huge service now, he has found the antidote so to speak, and I believe Conte now faces an uphill task.

The next one to get found out will be Klopp. I won't even mention Guardiola because he has already been found out.

So much for those who insisted that Jose was an old-fashioned manager and that Conte / Klopp were better equipped for the modern game. When was the last time Jose was tactically outclassed and had no response whatsoever? At least he changes his system and shows some flexibility, depending on what is happening in the game. His subs / tactical changes in the Boro and West Ham games were decisive. Conte failed to make any impact despite the fact that his team was losing. Spurs completely suffocated them. I have never seen Hazard and Costa so anonymous.

Ok, I have to say this as gently as possible.

'Are you out of your fecking mind'?

 

[Ramshock]

feck me, listen I coached in America for years and I remember in particular two back to back games between me and a team coached by a mate of mine. The teams were pretty evenly matched and in both games we both happened to start with the same XIs. The first game they won 6-2 and exactly one week later we won 5-0. It happens in football at all levels and even moreso now in the PL where you can lose any game at anytime. The days of hammering everyone outside the top 10 are long gone. Conte is a top top coach and that Chelsea team could have easily reversed that result. Nonsense being talked in here.

 

[iKnowNothing]

The days of hammering everyone outside the top 10 are long gone. Conte is a top top coach and that Chelsea team could have easily reversed that result. Nonsense being talked in here.

Absolutely! No clue why some of the posters here are going on about Conte being found out etc etc. Knee jerk reactions and hyperbole abound. So business as usual on the Caf, I suppose.

 

[Minimalist]

Chelsea didn't even get badly beaten last night and should have scored at least a goal had Costa and his fellow attackers had a bit more creativity. They were poor in comparison to what we've seen recently but Spurs still had a lot of work to do to get their two goals and keep a clean sheet. Thought it was a shit match in all honesty - Spurs bore me and have for a long time.

It certainly isn't a scenario that hints at a major downward spiral to come for the losing side.

 

[Grunge]

I know this is "our caf" and its fun for us to wind up the few legit Chulski & spuds fans that visit but the realty of the game yesterday was that it was very close. The two team for the most part cancelled each other out. Moses made a huge gaff when he failed to "step up" as Luiz clearly demanded of his line even though Moses was in ideal position to see across the line and anticipate the cross that was about to be delivered. As nicely taken as the goal was by Dele, it should have been a routine offside and the game would have remained nil nil. And with that scoreline going into the second half, who knows what might of happened.

Make no mistake, both teams are contenders not just the pensioners. I can't see Chelsea losing too many more games unless they suffer serious injury problems. So too with Tottenham although, they are still such a very young team, they may run foul of over confidence & or inexperience down the finish line again like they did last year - let's hope both happens and we can sneak in and take advantage

 

[Attila]

Sure, but how can he carry on justifying the fact that he plays a full back as a centreback, a forward as a wing back, and leaves a player with 100 PL assists on the bench in favor of a water carrier who passes sideways and has poor technique? How can he justify having the most error prone DM in all of football as the main lynchpin in this back line?

His team selection is poor and finally he has been exposed by someone who knows how to counter his Plan A, which admittedly caught some folks off guard. And he doesn't appear to have a Plan B.

It's one loss. You must be joking with these crazy posts

 

[Hemil]

The thread title.... I just have to applaud the one who changed it. Who was it?

 

[SirHenryPercy]

I know this is "our caf" and its fun for us to wind up the few legit Chulski & spuds fans that visit but the realty of the game yesterday was that it was very close. The two team for the most part cancelled each other out. Moses made a huge gaff when he failed to "step up" as Luiz clearly demanded of his line even though Moses was in ideal position to see across the line and anticipate the cross that was about to be delivered. As nicely taken as the goal was by Dele, it should have been a routine offside and the game would have remained nil nil. And with that scoreline going into the second half, who knows what might of happened.

Make no mistake, both teams are contenders not just the pensioners. I can't see Chelsea losing too many more games unless they suffer serious injury problems. So too with Tottenham although, they are still such a very young team, they may run foul of over confidence & or inexperience down the finish line again like they did last year - let's hope both happens and we can sneak in and take advantage

Spurs largely controlled that game, apart from one scuff from Hazard 5 minutes at the start of the second half was all Chelsea had.

The reason Spurs controlled so much of the game was that Wanyama and Dembele had too much physically for Kante and Matic and more importantly Walker and Rose just pushed Alonso and Moses back. The Spurs FB's or in this case WB's have been excellent this season and Alonso and Moses against those 2 was simply a mismatch of pace, aggression, physicality, desire and everything else. Once those 2 were pushed further and further back their passing lanes closed, they struggled to have options on the ball and had no wide threat meaning we completely controlled large parts of the game without having to expose ourselves to much danger.

Spurs are far from the finished article but that was a very professional, highly organised and well drilled performance that Chelsea failed to answer the physical questions to. Kante and Pedro looked like little kids lost in a world of big boys bullying them at every opportunity.

We have a lot to improve on but in some aspects we are moving well in the right direction, but next up is our bogey team at home, WBA hold an Indian sign over us so we will need to be at our best and I think it will be more of a test than last night.

 

[Grunge]

That definitely won't happen

Oops

 

[Bojan11]

Not sure what the fuss is about.

I agree with @Treble_Winning. Conte has been badly exposed and I think it's generous of treble winning to even put him ahead of the likes of Neville and Giggs. Winning only 13 games in a row was a fluke.

 

[notcool]

Sack Conte and appoint Simeone. He's lost a few games recently at Atleti so should be easy to pry away.

 

[Grunge]

Spurs largely controlled that game, apart from one scuff from Hazard 5 minutes at the start of the second half was all Chelsea had.

Do possession stats bear that out? And it didn't seem to me that you had many clear cut chances other than the two they gifted ... I am still mystified at Courtois bottling it the way he did

The reason Spurs controlled so much of the game was that Wanyama and Dembele had too much physically for Kante and Matic and more importantly Walker and Rose just pushed Alonso and Moses back. The Spurs FB's or in this case WB's have been excellent this season and Alonso and Moses against those 2 was simply a mismatch of pace, aggression, physicality, desire and everything else. Once those 2 were pushed further and further back their passing lanes closed, they struggled to have options on the ball and had no wide threat meaning we completely controlled large parts of the game without having to expose ourselves to much danger.

I agree, that's a fair point too, and it's a tactic I think United (and a few others) will use to get the better of the blues. And assuming Rashford, Martial & Mhki play to their potential we will beat them.

Spurs are far from the finished article but that was a very professional, highly organised and well drilled performance that Chelsea failed to answer the physical questions to. Kante and Pedro looked like little kids lost in a world of big boys bullying them at every opportunity.

Again I agree that Pedro looked out of sorts & it didn't help that he & Costacunt had that little Fracas (I don't really know what Pedro did so badly btw) but Kante played as he usually does, but unfortunately the rest of the Chelsea team looked off the pace ... maybe over confident, maybe surprised at how hard you lot worked. But hardly like kids

We have a lot to improve on but in some aspects we are moving well in the right direction, but next up is our bogey team at home, WBA hold an Indian sign over us so we will need to be at our best and I think it will be more of a test than last night.

I wish I could wish you luck with that but, I'll be pulling for Pulis

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Sack Conte and appoint Simeone. He's lost a few games recently at Atleti so should be easy to pry away.

Better yet give it Giggsy 'til the end of the season, as it were. Only lost once in management so I'm told.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

Do possession stats bear that out? And it didn't seem to me that you had many clear cut chances other than the two they gifted ... I am still mystified at Courtois bottling it the way he did



I agree, that's a fair point too, and it's a tactic I think United (and a few others) will use to get the better of the blues. And assuming Rashford, Martial & Mhki play to their potential we will beat them.



Again I agree that Pedro looked out of sorts & it didn't help that he & Costacunt had that little Fracas (I don't really know what Pedro did so badly btw) but Kante played as he usually does, but unfortunately the rest of the Chelsea team looked off the pace ... maybe over confident, maybe surprised at how hard you lot worked. But hardly like kids



I wish I could wish you luck with that but, I'll be pulling for Pulis

Honestly j don't know what the possession stats were but I know we looked more comfortable and with better options when we had it. We didn't have many clear cut chances but before we scored we did create 2 or 3 dangerous situations which didn't quite turn into chances. And of course for the last 35 minutes it was all about game management and we didn't give them a single sniff in that period.

Regarding Moses and Alonso they are Chelsea's biggest weakness IMHO. People picking up on that Azpa bloke today but he seems decent enough but Moses and Alonso aren't of a high enough level and this is where the better teams should get at Chelsea. Alonso put in one really dangerous ball and that's the only time I remember him getting forward and Moses offered nothing, whereas Walker set both crosses for Eriksen from advanced wide positions and both he and Rose just continuously drove on into Chelsea's last third dragging the 2 Chelsea players with them and even then when we list the ball they were short of options as Walker and Rose recovered quicker than they could get forward.

Kante is a good player, mobile and quick across the floor but I thought Wanyama particularly and Dembele just over powered him, he had no physical answer to them and as for Pedro he looked like he should have been fetching the ball back, I really don't understand why Willian didn't start and then wasn't introduced at the interval.

It's hardly a disaster for Chelsea but I'm sure a few managers learnt a few things about them last night and we'll see which can now expose any potential flaws.

 

[TheReligion]

Spurs largely controlled that game, apart from one scuff from Hazard 5 minutes at the start of the second half was all Chelsea had.

The reason Spurs controlled so much of the game was that Wanyama and Dembele had too much physically for Kante and Matic and more importantly Walker and Rose just pushed Alonso and Moses back. The Spurs FB's or in this case WB's have been excellent this season and Alonso and Moses against those 2 was simply a mismatch of pace, aggression, physicality, desire and everything else. Once those 2 were pushed further and further back their passing lanes closed, they struggled to have options on the ball and had no wide threat meaning we completely controlled large parts of the game without having to expose ourselves to much danger.

Spurs are far from the finished article but that was a very professional, highly organised and well drilled performance that Chelsea failed to answer the physical questions to. Kante and Pedro looked like little kids lost in a world of big boys bullying them at every opportunity.

We have a lot to improve on but in some aspects we are moving well in the right direction, but next up is our bogey team at home, WBA hold an Indian sign over us so we will need to be at our best and I think it will be more of a test than last night.

Pretty much agree with that. Chelsea were never really in it for me. Think Spurs were comfortable.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It was a good match, pretty even I must say. A typical example of a match hinging on a mistake or two. That said, did Chelsea choke under the pressure of the pending record or were the spuds better than expected. I must say Wannyama & Dembele were exceptional & Dele wasn't bad either was he

Agreed - no way Jose would put Blind up against Blind, would he? Martial or Rashford would play of course and either in their current form would significantly peg Moses back and as we saw on Wednesday, Moses has more then a few defensive shortfalls.

Yh Wanyama & Dembele were brilliant. Spurs are a nightmare to play against atm, they're all strong and rapid and Erikssen just sits in the hole pinging balls around for the attacking players. Problem for us playing Chelsea i I don't think we have the personnel to combat them - would have to try and outplay them in a different way. On that note, when are we going to see TFM get a chance to play DM?

 

[Raees]

I know this is "our caf" and its fun for us to wind up the few legit Chulski & spuds fans that visit but the realty of the game yesterday was that it was very close. The two team for the most part cancelled each other out. Moses made a huge gaff when he failed to "step up" as Luiz clearly demanded of his line even though Moses was in ideal position to see across the line and anticipate the cross that was about to be delivered. As nicely taken as the goal was by Dele, it should have been a routine offside and the game would have remained nil nil. And with that scoreline going into the second half, who knows what might of happened.

Make no mistake, both teams are contenders not just the pensioners. I can't see Chelsea losing too many more games unless they suffer serious injury problems. So too with Tottenham although, they are still such a very young team, they may run foul of over confidence & or inexperience down the finish line again like they did last year - let's hope both happens and we can sneak in and take advantage

I thought Spurs were comfortably superior last night but I wouldn't say Chelsea are 'found out' after one loss in 14. It was a tough game and it is hard to keep such a run going, it had to come to an end some time.

 

[Grunge]

I thought Spurs were comfortably superior last night but I wouldn't say Chelsea are 'found out' after one loss in 14. It was a tough game and it is hard to keep such a run going, it had to come to an end some time.

Agreed - well I'm not sure about "comfortably" but they were "slightly" stronger in most areas of the pitch so perhaps we're splitting hairs. They deserved to win and I have to say I enjoy watching the spuds play when i get the chance, & have every respect for Poch as a manager.

 

[salford_]

I agree that Chelsea looked pretty devoid of creativity in the absence of Fabregas. Tottenham totally cut off their passing lines and unsettled Hazard thoroughly and forced him to play deeper than normal. He wasn't allowed to have the ball. That's why they struggled to create chances. And Conte paid the price for adopting a defensive mindset with two DMs instead of Fabregas.

Also, Pedro truly is a terrible player. So over rated, he has some skills but totally doesn't have the right mentality for the PL. he must have some compromising photos of Conte, there's no other explanation why he is still in their first team. Seriously I have seen him play 3-4 times this season and he has been totally anonymous.

Conte has been exposed, he is still a young and inexperienced coach and will need time to learn. All the posts on the Caf claiming that he is world class were very much premature, at this stage I think he deserves to be ranked slightly above Giggs, Neville and Howe, and significantly below second tier coaches like Benitez, Ranieri and Blanc. Which puts him on the level below the level below Jose.

That last paragraph is quite literally ridiculous. He is one of the best managers around, he has gone into a club and used players Jose kept farming out on loan and proved theyre good and work when you have the balls to change system. He will piss manager of the year at this rate

Did great at Juventus, done well in Euros with Italy, goes to a new league and decides a style theyve played for 5-6 yrs doesnt work anymore. Says right 3 at the back then lads. This results in them winning 13 games in a row (outstanding) and sitting top by 5 points and most likely going to win it.

To say he isn't up there with the Jose's and Pep's is a little nuts. He is right up there

 

[diarm]

It's the idea that he's in the same coaching hemisphere as Giggs and Neville that astounds me!

He literally did what everyone here has criticised Giggs for not doing in moving down to Serie B to start his coaching career. Down there he won the division with Bari and secured promotion for Sienna between less successful spells at Arezzo and Atlanta. He got his chance at Juve and won 3 titles and 2 cups. He's coached the Italian national side for heavens sake and took a non vintage side to the top of their group and eventually a penalty shootout defeat to Germany in the QF of Euro 2016.

But yeah, Giggs spent a couple of weeks in May in charge of United with his mates and Neville lasted 4 months at Valencia. The lads are right on his coattails!

 

[salford_]

Lest we forget he may have lost to Arsenal and Liverpool before the system change, and Spurs last night. But he has also beaten Spurs, thumped Utd and beaten City. Not bad