Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps

In fairness, other than Madrid and city, most teams were better in that period than they are now. Underrated period of football IMO.

Well, doesn't that enforce my point? This Barcelona team are the weakest in a long time. Rakitic is not fit to lace Xavi's boots, Iniesta is on the brink of retirement, Messi isn't as good as he was back then, they don't have a monster in defence like Puyol. They brought on Alex Vidal and Andre Gomes!

I agree with you that Chelsea were stronger back then, but Barcelona were also stronger as well.
 
If that was United and not Chelsea, Mourinho would be getting criticised for being the anti-christ of football with death of football tactics.

27% possession at home is terrible and I have not seen one thing on social media criticising Chelsea. United would be getting all sorts of abuse thrown at them.
Difference is Mourinho game plan would be to play for a nil nil. And Mourinho would do it against inferior opponents.
 
We played worse against Barcelona in 08 when we won the CL. And we had players like Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Nani, Scholes etc. - how some are criticising Chelsea is beyond me.
Also, the notion that Utd are miles better than Chelsea is so stupid when they are just 3 points behind us and have to play us next.
 
We played worse against Barcelona in 08 when we won the CL. And we had players like Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney, Nani, Scholes etc. - how some are criticising Chelsea is beyond me.
Also, the notion that Utd are miles better than Chelsea is so stupid when they are just 3 points behind us and have to play us next.

I don't recall us playing worse at all especially in the 2nd leg.

We should have won by more than 1 goal. Though it was a nervy finish.
 
I don't recall us playing worse at all especially in the 2nd leg.

We should have won by more than 1 goal. Though it was a nervy finish.

A 2nd leg is a completely different dynamic. Not to mention, Chelsea tried to play out from the back which kept on getting them into trouble. The game plan didn't really make sense; they made sure to restrict the spaces out of possesion but then left huge spaces by trying to play short passes in possession.

Chelsea's lack of a physical presence up top meant that they couldnt play long; which ultimately cost them the win.
 
Really? Let's have a look at the trajectory shall we, Conte has guided Chelsea to quite a wobble this season having won the league last season. They've performed poorly in the transfer market, the manager has openly criticised his own employers, it's been a little bit cringeworthy in my opinion. Manchester United have risen from 6th, risen from the Europa League and are competing very well in all their remaining competitions. You could say one club has significantly improved whilst one has declined.
You're talking about in the context of our respective positions last season. Then yeah, of course United have made tremendous improvement whilst Chelsea have regressed in that respect. But I get the impression that a lot of people believe that United has been the better team this season.
I just think the team you had out was not so inferior to Barcelona that it had no chance to pass a bit more and enjoy more time on the ball in their half or at least further away from your half. Kanté, Fàbregas, Pedro, Willian, Hazard, Azpilicueta and Alonso are brilliant players in my book. It's not Messi or Iniesta but the gap is not so big that you were reduced to playing on the edge of your box being at all times one bad pass away from conceding and always having your forwards isolated once they broke. I don't understand this Barcelona will always have more possession, maybe back in 2011 at their peak but since then, it is by no means a team that monopolize possession as you claim, certainly not to the extent of 75/25 as it was today. The only way you played well in my opinion is the individuals. Willian and Hazard again proving what brilliant performers they are. With that little support and that much space to run and make up every time they had the ball, the amount of danger they created is outstanding but as a team, I thought you dropped too deep and were too limited on the ball that you left yourselves too much to do.
I see what you mean. However, we have struggled against some dreadful sides when we played without strikers recently, so in my opinion the lack of striker somehow stifles the quality of those players. I'm certainly surprised by how well we played because we have been shit in almost every game we have played without a striker since 2013! You're certainly right that Barca being possession oriented team does not explain 75/25 figure, but I specifically said this was due to the lack of target man. I actually believe we could take the game to Barcelona with we had a fit and in-form Morata. Not sure if he'll do it in the away game.

And how do you know his plan is to play for a nil nil? Black magics?
Mourinho parked the bus against 10 man PSG and paid for it.

Mourinho and Conte are more similar than people admit, though.
 
Chelsea were poor in that game; other than Willian being the best player on the pitch by a mile. In fact, when you actually look at the chances in the game, Barcelona had by far the best chance which was an easy finish for Messi. That being said, Barcelona were also poor, toothless in possession and were actually better without the ball.

I've seen Chelsea dominate Guardiola's Barcelona only for the ref to hand the game to Barca. This performance was an away performance, Chelsea can and have done better to better versions of Barcelona.
It's unfair to compare the absolute stubborn warriors that Lampard, Drogba, Terry & Co were to these weak livered bunch who have to be babied by Azpilicueta. They did show some guts last night though so there's that.
 
A 2nd leg is a completely different dynamic. Not to mention, Chelsea tried to play out from the back which kept on getting them into trouble. The game plan didn't really make sense; they made sure to restrict the spaces out of possesion but then left huge spaces by trying to play short passes in possession.

Chelsea's lack of a physical presence up top meant that they couldnt play long; which ultimately cost them the win.
This !!! It made little sense they kept doing it since it already got them in tight situations in the first half. If they were playing it safe, why not avoid that risk ?
 
You clearly don't know him if you think otherwise.

Oh, I'm sorry for having my own opinion. I don't see how Mourinho would play for nil nil against Stoke City at home. They're inferior opponents right?

Difference is Mourinho game plan would be to play for a nil nil.
This might be true if He's up against Barcelona or any other big teams, playing very defensive (Even that, I doubt it's for nil nil) but combined with this:
And Mourinho would do it against inferior opponents.
It's just ridiculous. Such a hyperbole.
 
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Oh, I'm sorry for having my own opinion. I don't see how Mourinho would play for nil nil against Stoke City at home. They're inferior opponents right?

This might be true if He's up against Barcelona or any other big teams (Even that, I doubt it's for nil nil) but combined with this:
It's just ridiculous. Such a hyperbole.
His literary held the same strategy his entire career against big opposition. Draw away and win at home.

The guy parked the bus against 10 man psg.

And yes he would park the bus against inferior opposition. Hell we even parked the bus against Middlesborough last year who has the worst attack in the league.
I know he is our manager but no need to lie to ourselves.
 
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Mourinho and Conte are more similar than people admit, though.

Funny how Chelsea fans had none of this when so many ManUtd fans said the same thing last season.
 
A 2nd leg is a completely different dynamic. Not to mention, Chelsea tried to play out from the back which kept on getting them into trouble. The game plan didn't really make sense; they made sure to restrict the spaces out of possesion but then left huge spaces by trying to play short passes in possession.

Chelsea's lack of a physical presence up top meant that they couldnt play long; which ultimately cost them the win.

Sure, but I think it's clear we played better than Chelsea regardless.
 
People are too obsessed with possession. The mistake aside leading to the goal, did Barca come close to a chance? I don't know why you would be too fussed they passed the ball around the back for 60 minutes of the game. Dominated for me would be clinging on to your dear lives, like our 2012 version of this matchup. I thought in contrast we had a very controlled game.

Going into the game people were expecting Chelsea to be comfortably beaten. The fact that most supporters are agrieved to go out of the game with a draw speaks volumes I think.
 
Going into the game people were expecting Chelsea to be comfortably beaten. The fact that most supporters are agrieved to go out of the game with a draw speaks volumes I think.
I'm not surprised by the result in the slightest. Earlier in this thread I said Chelsea would give a good account of themselves and the chances of them being heavily beaten were very unlikely.
 
I'm not surprised by the result in the slightest. Earlier in this thread I said Chelsea would give a good account of themselves and the chances of them being heavily beaten were very unlikely.

But, a home draw is not a good result for them.
 
People are too obsessed with possession. The mistake aside leading to the goal, did Barca come close to a chance? I don't know why you would be too fussed they passed the ball around the back for 60 minutes of the game. Dominated for me would be clinging on to your dear lives, like our 2012 version of this matchup. I thought in contrast we had a very controlled game.

Going into the game people were expecting Chelsea to be comfortably beaten. The fact that most supporters are agrieved to go out of the game with a draw speaks volumes I think.

Speaks volumes about what, exactly?
 
I'm not surprised by the result in the slightest. Earlier in this thread I said Chelsea would give a good account of themselves and the chances of them being heavily beaten were very unlikely.
I don't think a complete rout was on the cards but an unbeaten in x record amount of games Barca vs a supposedly in-crisis Chelsea...think it was clear that Barca were favourites (hence 'comfortably beaten').

But, a home draw is not a good result for them.

Better than a home loss! I think we were always going to need a goal in the return leg anyway, instead of hoping to shut them out again. I don't expect our approach would be too dissimilar unless it's 0-0 in the later stages of the game.

Speaks volumes about what, exactly?

That we played well?
 
Considering their season and Barcelona's, I think a 1-1 draw is more than respectable. I think they'll do alright in the return fixture, too.

If they drop Paulinho they should look a lot better next leg. And Barca are usually much better at home in the CL.
 
Biggest issue for me in this game was the technical gap between both sides. The way Barcelona players actually played with the ball and movements compared to what Chelsea did was astonishing.

It only shows the difference between the English champion and one of the best team in Europe. Chelsea lacks technics in all areas but also a real collective plan to be a serious contender, and what is annoying me is that we really looks like this Chelsea team.

A fantastic keeper, two wing backs, poor technical CBs, only one top midfielder (Kante/Pogba) and only one top class attacker (Sanchez/Hazard)

But their style of play was so simple, mediocre that the difference was abysmal.

And yet, we will loose against them, and probably make them look world class on Sunday... FFS
 
Biggest issue for me in this game was the technical gap between both sides. The way Barcelona players actually played with the ball and movements compared to what Chelsea did was astonishing.

It only shows the difference between the English champion and one of the best team in Europe. Chelsea lacks technics in all areas but also a real collective plan to be a serious contender, and what is annoying me is that we really looks like this Chelsea team.

A fantastic keeper, two wing backs, poor technical CBs, only one top midfielder (Kante/Pogba) and only one top class attacker (Sanchez/Hazard)


But their style of play was so simple, mediocre that the difference was abysmal.

And yet, we will loose against them, and probably make them look world class on Sunday... FFS

You nailed it. I have been saying for some time that ourselves and Chelsea are practically identical in most areas, right down from a striker with a lot to prove, a midfield wanting depth, a solid but inconsistent backline, one class forward in Sanchez/Hazard to the eccentric, safety-first, win-at-all-costs managers who hate each other because they are so alike. It is both amusing and annoying.:lol:
 
Biggest issue for me in this game was the technical gap between both sides. The way Barcelona players actually played with the ball and movements compared to what Chelsea did was astonishing.

It only shows the difference between the English champion and one of the best team in Europe. Chelsea lacks technics in all areas but also a real collective plan to be a serious contender, and what is annoying me is that we really looks like this Chelsea team.

A fantastic keeper, two wing backs, poor technical CBs, only one top midfielder (Kante/Pogba) and only one top class attacker (Sanchez/Hazard)

But their style of play was so simple, mediocre that the difference was abysmal.

And yet, we will loose against them, and probably make them look world class on Sunday... FFS

Rudiger, Azpi and Christiansen are all really good on the ball. Their system only works because of the ball playing ability of their CBs.
 
Can't see them going through.
Worst part is, Barca got a good result without even leaving first gear.
 
This !!! It made little sense they kept doing it since it already got them in tight situations in the first half. If they were playing it safe, why not avoid that risk ?
But what would have been the result of not trying to hold on to the ball - something like 12% possession? If they tried long balls under pressure as plan A while sitting deep, they would have been completely strangled, imo. Almost every time Courtois was forced to hoof it yesterday, Barca had it easy to collect the ball. And since Giroud isn't fully fit yet apparently, who should have been the guy to hoof to?

As for the Mourinho/Conte comparison, I agree they are pretty similar in their general defensive mindset. Although one notable difference is that Chelsea generally shows more emphasis on fluid ball movement, both in the buildup and the final third.
 
But what would have been the result of not trying to hold on to the ball - something like 12% possession? If they tried long balls under pressure as plan A while sitting deep, they would have been completely strangled, imo. Almost every time Courtois was forced to hoof it yesterday, Barca had it easy to collect the ball. And since Giroud isn't fully fit yet apparently, who should have been the guy to hoof to?

As for the Mourinho/Conte comparison, I agree they are pretty similar in their general defensive mindset. Although one notable difference is that Chelsea generally shows more emphasis on fluid ball movement, both in the buildup and the final third.

Obviously hindsight is easy but between playing it safe and passing it dangerously across the penalty box, there is a big difference. Maybe some freedom has to be given to the players to clear it upfield instead of making these dangerous passes. Specially in the first half when Christensen makes a bad pass that goes to corner kick directly and when they were put under pressure for no serious reason. It's always a risk that you can feck up, that mistake wasn't a total surprise, they did have several close calls. You have to adapt and change during games when one of your tactics is creating danger to yourself.
 
Obviously hindsight is easy but between playing it safe and passing it dangerously across the penalty box, there is a big difference. Maybe some freedom has to be given to the players to clear it upfield instead of making these dangerous passes. Specially in the first half when Christensen makes a bad pass that goes to corner kick directly and when they were put under pressure for no serious reason. It's always a risk that you can feck up, that mistake wasn't a total surprise, they did have several close calls. You have to adapt and change during games when one of your tactics is creating danger to yourself.
Yes, it's obvious there's a risk involved, and the mistake didn't come out of nowhere either. I just think there's a vital upside to taking these risks as well, and I'm not sure there's a viable risk-reduced MOR approach against high pressing like Barca's. If you show fear to play a clean pass under intense pressure, they can probably bully you into conceding possession most of the time.

All in all I think Chelsea has managed to control Barca's offensive very well, and were more dangerous themselves, so Conte and the team did well for me.
 
Don't see why Chelsea should be criticised. There were brilliant last night and completely nullified Barcelona and should have won.
 
You're talking about in the context of our respective positions last season. Then yeah, of course United have made tremendous improvement whilst Chelsea have regressed in that respect. But I get the impression that a lot of people believe that United has been the better team this season.
I see what you mean. However, we have struggled against some dreadful sides when we played without strikers recently, so in my opinion the lack of striker somehow stifles the quality of those players. I'm certainly surprised by how well we played because we have been shit in almost every game we have played without a striker since 2013! You're certainly right that Barca being possession oriented team does not explain 75/25 figure, but I specifically said this was due to the lack of target man. I actually believe we could take the game to Barcelona with we had a fit and in-form Morata. Not sure if he'll do it in the away game.

Mourinho parked the bus against 10 man PSG and paid for it.

Mourinho and Conte are more similar than people admit, though.
That’s because they have been. Utd have more points, have scored more goals and have conceded less. The difference may be marginal but it exists.
 
Don't see why Chelsea should be criticised. There were brilliant last night and completely nullified Barcelona and should have won.

Defensively bar the obvious horror show for the goal they were good, offensively though they were really really poor though. They should have used their counter attacks a lot better than what they did
 
Yes, it's obvious there's a risk involved, and the mistake didn't come out of nowhere either. I just think there's a vital upside to taking these risks as well, and I'm not sure there's a viable risk-reduced MOR approach against high pressing like Barca's. If you show fear to play a clean pass under intense pressure, they can probably bully you into conceding possession most of the time.

All in all I think Chelsea has managed to control Barca's offensive very well, and were more dangerous themselves, so Conte and the team did well for me.

We'll see if they keep it the same in the return leg with an even bigger pressure.
 
Chelsea play like that against us, and they'll win with ease. It was a great performance.

We will also raise our game against them like we did at OT last season. Stamford Bridge may be a jinxed ground for us, but Jose won't just roll over for Conte on our turf.
 
We'll see if they keep it the same in the return leg with an even bigger pressure.
Yes, will be interesting to see, also in terms of midfield/forward personnel (2 or 3 in midfield, genuine CF yes/no). But I'd be surprised if they survive the Camp Nou after yesterday's result.
 
We will also raise our game against them like we did at OT last season. Stamford Bridge may be a jinxed ground for us, but Jose won't just roll over for Conte on our turf.
Jose will likely try and recreate the 2-0 win last season, hopefully Conte is mindful of that and adjust's accordingly.

Yes, will be interesting to see, also in terms of midfield/forward personnel (2 or 3 in midfield, genuine CF yes/no). But I'd be surprised if they survive the Camp Nou after yesterday's result.
It's a daunting situation, but if anyone can go to the Camp Nou in such an adverse position and pull the rabbit out of the hat, it's us.

It's unfair to compare the absolute stubborn warriors that Lampard, Drogba, Terry & Co were to these weak livered bunch who have to be babied by Azpilicueta. They did show some guts last night though so there's that.
Are these the same weak livered bunch who comfortably won two titles under extreme pressure?
 
We will also raise our game against them like we did at OT last season. Stamford Bridge may be a jinxed ground for us, but Jose won't just roll over for Conte on our turf.

Since Roman bought that club. Pre Roman the Bridge was one of the easiest ground for United to go to.