Chelsea 2021/22 - World and European Champions

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Cutiepatootie said:
That's not how it works. If we go after the Russian dark money and stop the money laundering then all Russian oligarchs will be stripped of their ill gained UK assets including your beloved butcher Abramovic and his toy acquisition of Chelsea fc for the purpose of sportswashing his name.
None of the trophies paid for by Abramovic means a thing. In fact your club should be stripped of all trophies purchased by the blood money too.
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May I ask that you present your evidence why it is justified to call him a butcher? This place is quickly leaving the ground of common sense and a sense for law and order and turning into a disgraceful witch hunt.

I absolutely support investigating IF Abramovich is involved in the current events and if so he should face consequences. If he isn't, he should not. Accusing a former Russian citizen without any evidence is just cheap populism and divides people that should stand together against those who want war.
 
Cutiepatootie said:
That's not how it works. If we go after the Russian dark money and stop the money laundering then all Russian oligarchs will be stripped of their ill gained UK assets including your beloved butcher Abramovic and his toy acquisition of Chelsea fc for the purpose of sportswashing his name.
None of the trophies paid for by Abramovic means a thing. In fact your club should be stripped of all trophies purchased by the blood money too.
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But other butchers and money gained from illegal wars are ok ?

Plus what evidence do you have of money laundering or anything else in your post? Throwing baseless accusations around because you hate all Russians due to Putin?

There is a word for that, Russophobia, or said another way. Racism. Discrimination against people because they are Russian, not for any other reason than your own prejudice!
 
Ibn Battuta said:
I think RA should be judged through the lens of justice and fairness. Other then the concerns for justice and fairness, I have no dog in this fight.
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Well exactly. Justice and fairness. Tyrannical dictatorships are in opposition of justice and fairness. Thats the whole point! You have no dog in this fight?! This is not just about football. This is not about just about RA. Its about the principals and morals we hold as a society. Do we stand up and say no to corruption, greed, murder, dictatorships etc or do we just turn a blind eye. Thats the same attitude people took for a long time with Hitler and see how that turned out. Do have no values? Do you have no morals? If you do what are they and do they or do they not oppose regimes such as Russia. Or is ok so long as your football club gets some cash to win a few trophies. Thats where we are. Forget who you support. What do you stand for.
 
UpWithRivers said:
Well exactly. Justice and fairness. Tyrannical dictatorships are in opposition of justice and fairness. Thats the whole point! You have no dog in this fight?! This is not just about football. This is not about just about RA. Its about the principals and morals we hold as a society. Do we stand up and say no to corruption, greed, murder, dictatorships etc or do we just turn a blind eye. Thats the same attitude people took for a long time with Hitler and see how that turned out. Do have no values? Do you have no morals? If you do what are they and do they or do they not oppose regimes such as Russia. Or is ok so long as your football club gets some cash to win a few trophies. Thats where we are. Forget who you support. What do you stand for.
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No, the point is wether Roman is part of that said the dictatorship, based on evidence and truth.

Your moral lecture makes no sense. Who said anything about not opposing dictatorships. Weird.
 
Ibn Battuta said:
No, the point is wether Roman is part of that said the dictatorship, based on evidence and truth.

Your moral lecture makes no sense. Who said anything about not opposing dictatorships. Weird.
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Come on man, he’s literally an Oligarch. The fact this argument has descended into show us proof he’s in with Putin! Tells a lot in itself. He was literally a given a role as a governor by Putin if I remember correctly
 
UpWithRivers said:
Well exactly. Justice and fairness. Tyrannical dictatorships are in opposition of justice and fairness. Thats the whole point! You have no dog in this fight?! This is not just about football. This is not about just about RA. Its about the principals and morals we hold as a society. Do we stand up and say no to corruption, greed, murder, dictatorships etc or do we just turn a blind eye. Thats the same attitude people took for a long time with Hitler and see how that turned out. Do have no values? Do you have no morals? If you do what are they and do they or do they not oppose regimes such as Russia. Or is ok so long as your football club gets some cash to win a few trophies. Thats where we are. Forget who you support. What do you stand for.
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Looking at our dealings with Saudi Arabia, think we know the answer to this.

Plus many other examples, there are investments in the UK from all kinds of awful regimes. Including China who we know are committing genocide and who utilise what amounts to slave labour to build lots of the consumer goods we buy.

We seem to be turning a giant blind eye, when it suits us ?

The evidence in the public domain suggests Abramovich has nothing to do with the Russian government, Putin or the decision to invade Ukraine.

So why should he be targeted?
 
It’s kind of sad to see the volume of Chelsea fans here blindly defending him and putting their club before what is morally acceptable.

Ultimately if RA is or has been a Oligarch, which seems highly likely when you look at his history and association with Putin, he needs to be frozen out and expelled as part of the diplomatic pressure on Russia. He can’t be trusted not to still be mixing in those circles and holding influence in the country due to his wealth.

This is about something much bigger than football. Hence United dropping Areoflot yesterday. London is a hot bed of Russian wealth and influence. This needs to be attacked.
 
Mb194dc said:
But other butchers and money gained from illegal wars are ok ?

Plus what evidence do you have of money laundering or anything else in your post? Throwing baseless accusations around because you hate all Russians due to Putin?

There is a word for that, Russophobia, or said another way. Racism. Discrimination against people because they are Russian, not for any other reason than your own prejudice!
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Look I am on the side of the Russian people.
I support those who were stripped of their wealth by butchers who became oligarchs under Putin and his oligarch ilk, the real enemies of the Russian people.

So your ill-judged and purely cynical opportunistic labelling as racist, of those persons who know a thing or two about the history of the gangsta capitalist ( Abramovic and his ilk) carve up and slaughter of innocents, that happened post Soviet collapse, holds no sway.
Regarding your utterly cynical use of the race card to defend RA, please don't expose yourself so glaringly by using language you obviously have no understanding of. Not a good look fella.

Stick to your Abramovic fan boyism but admit you do so because of the trophies he has bought for your little club with his ill gained swag, and not for any fake righteous and pseudo-indignant reasons you make up.

The best outcome for football of the UK's clean up of the money laundering of corrupt oligarchs would be that both Chelsea and Man City owners are asset stripped and that all trophies ill-gained by both sordid outfits are made historically null.
 
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Cutiepatootie said:
Look I am on the side of the Russian people.
I support those who were stripped of their wealth by butchers who became oligarchs under Putin and his oligarch ilk, the real enemies of the Russian people.

So your ill-judged and purely cynical opportunistic labelling as racist, of those persons who know a thing or two about the history which of the gangsta capitalist ( Abramovic and his ilk) carve up and slaughter of innocents that happened post Soviet collapse, holds no truck.

Please don't use language you obviously have no understanding of. Stuck to yiur Abramovic fan boyish But admit you do so because of the graphics he has nought for your littke club and no other fake righteous and pseudo-indignant reason.

The best outcome for football of the UK's clean up of money laundering of corrupt oligarchs would be that both Chelsea and Man City owners are asset stripped and that all trophies ill-gained by both sordid outfits are made historically null.
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If you're prejudiced about someone based on their nationality, rather than because you have any logical reason to be, based on the evidence, what would you describe that as?
 
TheReligion said:
It’s kind of sad to see the volume of Chelsea fans here blindly defending him and putting their club before what is morally acceptable.

Ultimately if RA is or has been a Oligarch, which seems highly likely when you look at his history and association with Putin, he needs to be frozen out and expelled as part of the diplomatic pressure on Russia. He can’t be trusted not to still be mixing in those circles and holding influence in the country due to his wealth.

This is about something much bigger than football. Hence United dropping Areoflot yesterday. London is a hot bed of Russian wealth and influence. This needs to be attacked.
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Regardless of if said Russians have anything to do with Putin or the regime?

What nationality will be next I wonder ?

Nice reign of terror against people who have potentially done nothing you're suggesting.

By all means if there's evidence they're responsible for Ukraine or other crimes, present it and go after them...?
 
Mb194dc said:
Regardless of if said Russians have anything to do with Putin or the regime?

What nationality will be next I wonder ?

Nice reign of terror against people who have potentially done nothing you're suggesting.

By all means if there's evidence they're responsible for Ukraine or other crimes, present it and go after them...?
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Your view is biased and I therefore couldn’t care for it. You’ll blindly support RA because of football.

He doesn’t have to be directly responsible for the war in Ukraine. It goes much further back than that.
 
The sanctions are not necessarily there to go after individuals who are directly involved in this war. They are there to apply pressure for it to end. United didn’t drop Aeroflot because they started and partook in action against Ukraine.

It’s essentially targeting influential wealthy figures and apply pressure from all angles on Russia. I’m not sure what people don’t get from this.
 
TheReligion said:
Your view is biased and I therefore couldn’t care for it. You’ll blindly support RA because of football.

He doesn’t have to be directly responsible for the war in Ukraine. It goes much further back than that.
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I don't support him.

Just only going for people who have actually done something wrong. It's called you know, justice.

Universal principal.

It's true I have a partly Russian Jewish background too.

We know all about persecution, because swathes of our families were wiped out by the Nazis, they didn't need any evidence either.

Religion was enough.
 
Just reviewed the commentary on The Shed End, a leading Chelsea forum. The commentary there is admirably balanced, though there is a pervasive blindness that Abramovich has anything to do with Putin. You’d have to have rocks in your skull to not be aware of the relationship between Vladimir Putin and Roman Abramovich.

One point came up that I had never thought of, which is the possibility of stripping Chelsea of its trophies under Abramovich. I would oppose such a move. We all knew then who Roman Abramovich was. Let the record stand. But let’s do the right thing going forward.
 
TheReligion said:
The sanctions are not necessarily there to go after individuals who are directly involved in this war. They are there to apply pressure for it to end. United didn’t drop Aeroflot because they started and partook in action against Ukraine.

It’s essentially targeting influential wealthy figures and apply pressure from all angles on Russia. I’m not sure what people don’t get from this.
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Mb194dc said:
I don't support him.

Just only going for people who have actually done something wrong. It's called you know, justice.

Universal principal.

It's true I have a partly Russian Jewish background too.

We know all about persecution, because swathes of our families were wiped out by the Nazis, they didn't need any evidence either.

Religion was enough.
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you do understand how it works right?
 
Cutiepatootie said:
Are you for real ? You come on a United forum stating that anyone who criticises butcher Abramovic's sportswashing ownership of Chelsea, during this moment when Putin invades Ukraine, deserves a good slap ?
You do realise Putin and Abramovic are very close allies.

I suppose you think your some kind of international gangsta who can dish out a good slapping to anyone who calls out the butcher gangsta who you obviously worship.
Get a grip fella.

The only persons here who deserve a good slapping are Abramovic fan boys defending Putin's pal, the despicable henchman who has bought your little club some trophies with his blood money.
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If (big if) it turns out Roman has something to do with this invasion then he should absolutely have the book thrown at him no arguments there. Even if it meant we dived back to being mid table second tier team like in the 80s (spoiler: it won't).

However the fact that it's a thread in the football forum dedicated to Chelsea's performances on a football field that's been hijacked with this discussion instead of it being discussed where it should be (current events) makes me very dubious.
 
Dancfc said:
If (big if) it turns out Roman has something to do with this invasion then he should absolutely have the book thrown at him no arguments there. Even if it meant we dived back to being mid table second tier team like in the 80s (spoiler: it won't).

However the fact that it's a thread in the football forum dedicated to Chelsea's performances on a football field that's been hijacked with this discussion instead of it being discussed where it should be (current events) makes me very dubious.
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He doesn’t have to have direct involvement with the invasion. Come on wake up.
 
Cutiepatootie said:
Look I am on the side of the Russian people.
I support those who were stripped of their wealth by butchers who became oligarchs under Putin and his oligarch ilk, the real enemies of the Russian people.

So your ill-judged and purely cynical opportunistic labelling as racist, of those persons who know a thing or two about the history of the gangsta capitalist ( Abramovic and his ilk) carve up and slaughter of innocents, that happened post Soviet collapse, holds no sway.
Regarding your utterly cynical use of the race card to defend RA, please don't expose yourself so glaringly by using language you obviously have no understanding of. Not a good look fella.

Stick to your Abramovic fan boyism but admit you do so because of the trophies he has bought for your little club with his ill gained swag, and not for any fake righteous and pseudo-indignant reasons you make up.

The best outcome for football of the UK's clean up of the money laundering of corrupt oligarchs would be that both Chelsea and Man City owners are asset stripped and that all trophies ill-gained by both sordid outfits are made historically null.
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UK isn't gonna clean anything, they sell military weapons to Saudi Arabia to kill yemenis.

There's more chance of Australia winning a World Cup than UK government cleaning up the shady ownerships of english clubs.

If Abramovich loses Chelsea, it will be sold to another shady billionaire.
 
lex talionis said:
Just reviewed the commentary on The Shed End, a leading Chelsea forum. The commentary there is admirably balanced, though there is a pervasive blindness that Abramovich has anything to do with Putin. You’d have to have rocks in your skull to not be aware of the relationship between Vladimir Putin and Roman Abramovich.

One point came up that I had never thought of, which is the possibility of stripping Chelsea of its trophies under Abramovich. I would oppose such a move. We all knew then who Roman Abramovich was. Let the record stand. But let’s do the right thing going forward.
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I’m not sure what they don’t follow so I can only assume it’s blinkers.

Sad really. This talk of there needs to be evidence he was involved in the invasion is diverting away from the issue and the purpose of sanctioning him and others. It’s about stopping a war and possible destruction of a sovereign country and it’s people.
 
TheReligion said:
I’m not sure what they don’t follow so I can only assume it’s blinkers.

Sad really. This talk of there needs to be evidence he was involved in the invasion is diverting away from the issue and the purpose of sanctioning him and others. It’s about stopping a war and possible destruction of a sovereign country and it’s people.
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Spot on. Stopping a war is the point. I’m no military strategist, but it’s clear as day that the only way to stop Putin’s aggression is to economically strangle his oligarchs. Abramovich is a Putin oligarch.
 
Ibn Battuta said:
No, the point is wether Roman is part of that said the dictatorship, based on evidence and truth.

Your moral lecture makes no sense. Who said anything about not opposing dictatorships. Weird.
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His financing came from that dictatorship. Where do you think he got the cash from? And where do you think we should get the evidence on all tyrants throughout the world? Why do you think they are making such a fuss against the Swiss bank for holding money for people with links with terrorism etc for example. Do you think there is hard evidence? Do you think someone comes into the bank and they ring the police to see if they have a record? This is not John the mechanic being accused of stealing motor parts. These are multi billionaires with power. There is no smoking gun somewhere. This is not how it works at this level. Otherwise we would just let in Bin Ladens henchmen. Where is the evidence against them? Have you seen any? There is no innocence until proven guilty in these cases. There is assumed compliance when you have links with any terrorist state. Why do you think its harder to come to the UK if you are from Afghanistan then if you are from EU? Should we not treat everyone equally until proven guilty? No. Its not that simple. You have high risk individuals that you target based on assumptions and the links they have.
 
lex talionis said:
Spot on. Stopping a war is the point. I’m no military strategist, but it’s clear as day that the only way to stop Putin’s aggression is to economically strangle his oligarchs. Abramovich is a Putin oligarch.
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If only Abromovich had just won a defamation lawsuit in the English court for publications printing that he has ties to the Putin regime. Oh wait, he just did.
 
Mb194dc said:
Looking at our dealings with Saudi Arabia, think we know the answer to this.

Plus many other examples, there are investments in the UK from all kinds of awful regimes. Including China who we know are committing genocide and who utilise what amounts to slave labour to build lots of the consumer goods we buy.

We seem to be turning a giant blind eye, when it suits us ?

The evidence in the public domain suggests Abramovich has nothing to do with the Russian government, Putin or the decision to invade Ukraine.

So why should he be targeted?
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Why target Greenwood when people get murdered every day. Heck they abuse children etc. Leave him alone. Its a stupid argument isnt it. Yes all those others fkrs Saudies etc should be held accountable as well. But thats a different argument. Lets deal with one at a time. Abramovich made his money from that dictatorship regime. There is no evidence but here is no evidence on half the war commanders in Bin Ladens army. There are links to a dictatorships and therefore he should not be allowed to buy property in the UK. Same as Kim Jung-uns cousins, Bin Laden Nephew or anyone like that evidence or not. As I said previously Im not saying hunt him down. Heck let him stay in London if he wants. All Im saying is that we should have rules and regulations around financing and not accept financing from North Korea, Russia or anywhere else.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
If only Abromovich had just won a defamation lawsuit in the English court for publications printing that he has ties to the Putin regime. Oh wait, he just did.
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Well, let's be clear here - he won the suit because the publisher stated that he had purchased Chelsea at Putin's behest. It didn't render judgement as to whether or not they are closely linked.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
If only Abromovich had just won a defamation lawsuit in the English court for publications printing that he has ties to the Putin regime. Oh wait, he just did.
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That's not true. His previous ties to the Putin regime are well documented. That's how he got his money in the first place. The current state of these ties and their extent might be discussed.
 
Pintu said:
That's not true. His previous ties to the Putin regime are well documented. That's how he got his money in the first place. The current state of these ties and their extent might be discussed.
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He was a Governor for 8 years in Russia. He will have ties as far as being a government official, that is documented. Since this began people are ratcheting up the dialog like he is in Putin’s inner circle. Are people going to treat all Russians like this? Just the wealthy ones? His mother was born in Kyiv and he has family there. It is getting to the point of xenophobia with some.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
He was a Governor for 8 years in Russia. He will have ties as far as being a government official, that is documented. Since this began people are ratcheting up the dialog like he is in Putin’s inner circle. Are people going to treat all Russians like this? Just the wealthy ones? His mother was born in Kyiv and he has family there. It is getting to the point of xenophobia with some.
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Most Russians, including sports people, are coming out and denouncing the war. Roman should do the same and we'll believe you zaphod.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
If only Abromovich had just won a defamation lawsuit in the English court for publications printing that he has ties to the Putin regime. Oh wait, he just did.
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Are you suggesting RA has no influence on the Russian government at all? Can you prove it?

As I say it’s about strangling Russia into submission and using wealthy, influential individuals to force the point.
 
What’s hilarious is that Chris Bryant and Boris Johnson only take money from REAL Russian Oligarchs like Deripaska. Which is ok technically, because the type of foreign money contributions Bryant is accusing Roman of are not illegal in England … as they are at least careful to point out at the beginning of most of these articles. Bryant then says “illicit” anyway … because… why? Idk really. Actual Russian operatives used to take Boris to massive Coke and stripper parties with bags full of cash going back to his mayor days… but a guy who was forced to sell his company to the Russian state by Putin so that those parties could be financed is the bad guy?
The world is a fun place.
 
TheReligion said:
Are you suggesting RA has no influence on the Russian government at all? Can you prove it?

As I say it’s about strangling Russia into submission and using wealthy, influential individuals to force the point.
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Can you prove he does? Because he just proved he didn’t. And the common sense of his finances alone and the fact that he was tied closer to the Yeltsin people Putin wanted removed so he could consolidate power all tend to show these people making accusations are wrong. Boris has more provable ties to Putin than Roman does.
 
Bluelion7 said:
Can you prove he does? Because he just proved he didn’t. And the common sense of his finances alone and the fact that he was tied closer to the Yeltsin people Putin wanted removed so he could consolidate power all tend to show these people making accusations are wrong. Boris has more provable ties to Putin than Roman does.
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Again, he did not prove that he has no ties. He's literally known in the Kremlin as "Mr. A" and his relationship with Putin has been described as father/son. There were reports a few years ago that they'd fallen out (after the Skripal attempted assassination if I recall correctly), but this could have been a planted story (and I am not 100% sure of the timing or veracity).

What he proved in court is that he didn't purchase Chelsea because Putin told him to. There is nothing in that lawsuit proving or disproving their relationship.
 
Bluelion7 said:
Can you prove he does? Because he just proved he didn’t. And the common sense of his finances alone and the fact that he was tied closer to the Yeltsin people Putin wanted removed so he could consolidate power all tend to show these people making accusations are wrong. Boris has more provable ties to Putin than Roman does.
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Jesus really? Carry on burying your head. This is bigger than football FFS
 
Abramovich takes a step back from running Chelsea.

 
I think he knows that anti Russian sentiment will be immense as a result of this war and it’ll become pretty much impossible for him to be in any way hands on at the club, so makes sense.
 
TheReligion said:
That’s pretty big news.

I think he’s leaving.
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There were reports yesterday that potential buyers were circling in the event that Chelsea is put on the market. I thought nothing of it at the time but they make sense now. I don't really know what this means long term, but it does feel like the beginning of the end.
 
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