Chelsea appoint Thomas Tuchel

adexkola said:
What's not easy? If Pep left City tomorrow, and picked a Serie A club out of a hat and said, "I'd like to manage there as soon as the managerial position was vacant", do you think there are any clubs that would go, "no, we will fill the vacancy with someone else"?
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I think he was referring to being able to take any Italian team and making them top of the table without a budget. His budget was smaller at Bayern, but still the biggest team in Bundesliga.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
I think he was referring to being able to take any Italian team and making them top of the table without a budget. His budget was smaller at Bayern, but still the biggest team in Bundesliga.
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Oh. I was talking about his desirability in general. And he wouldn't need to win the league with Udinese to be a success.
 
adexkola said:
Oh. I was talking about his desirability in general. And he wouldn't need to win the league with Udinese to be a success.
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Yes I was referring to your question if he would like to work there.

No doubt most clubs would be happy to have him.
 
VP89 said:
Why not? Pep still can't win a Champions League at City, he failed to win one with Bayern when they were already Champions of Europe at the time.

Klopp for me is another level to them both, but I think Tuchel is in the category of Pep. I don't think Pep can take Dortmund to take the title in Bundasliga whereas Tuchel and Klopp could.
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I think he could take Dortmund to a league title. When talking about this topic of subject we need to look little wider and at the entire picture rather they pieces of that picture.

Klopp is awesome manager great wit and character, uninstalls belief into his team while keeping hunger and motivation but he wasn’t the sole reason for Dortmund rise, their entire infrastructure, management, recruitment etc has been brilliant which benefitted him equally. Klopp also went up against a poor Bayern team I mean come on Bayern finished with 65 points and 73 points the year Klopp won both league Bayern now are hitting 80 plus easy. A couple of Dortmund teams would’ve won the league against that Bayern in the last decade that weren’t managed by Klopp but they’ve been against a monster of a BM team. The same with Tuchel another brilliant tactician he finished with 78 points finishing second to Pep BM Klopp won both leagues with 75 and 81 points. If Tuchel didn’t throw a tantrum at Dortmund I think he would’ve won a league title as good as he is it also would be with how bad Carlo and Kovac were for BM.

As far as it goes with Pep I’ll quote what @Bearded One said in a previous topic “Pep needs players that are good on the ball not necessarily players that are the best or world class.” City spent a lot of money but I wouldn’t say they were WC players just players that fit what Pep needed and what there clubs valued them as. There are already a few players in Dortmund that would fit Pep, but Dortmund would be able to find some young raw talent to fit Pep needs without too much issue. And with a little luck Pep goes up with Van Gaal BM or Kovac and Carlo BM I’m sure he’d squeeze a league title.
 
adexkola said:
What's not easy? If Pep left City tomorrow, and picked a Serie A club out of a hat and said, "I'd like to manage there as soon as the managerial position was vacant", do you think there are any clubs that would go, "no, we will fill the vacancy with someone else"?
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Exactly that, right now. Nobody can afford him, neither financially (Inter: €246m loss; Juve: €215m loss; Milan: going young) nor tactically (he would not outsmart a mid table Serie A coach without much better players, same as Mourinho still being so unable to outsmart relegation Serie A coaches to have renounced defending for good).
 
Bepi said:
Exactly that, right now. Nobody can afford him, neither financially (Inter: €246m loss; Juve: €215m loss; Milan: going young) nor tactically (he would not outsmart a mid table Serie A coach without much better players, same as Mourinho still being so unable to outsmart relegation Serie A coaches to have renounced defending for good).
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Mourinho was once the best but the game had left him behind unfortunately.
 
Bepi said:
Exactly that, right now. Nobody can afford him, neither financially (Inter: €246m loss; Juve: €215m loss; Milan: going young) nor tactically (he would not outsmart a mid table Serie A coach without much better players, same as Mourinho still being so unable to outsmart relegation Serie A coaches to have renounced defending for good).
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Depends where he goes if he was at Napoli or Atalanta he’d probably definitely outsmart most managers.
 
Bepi said:
Exactly that, right now. Nobody can afford him, neither financially (Inter: €246m loss; Juve: €215m loss; Milan: going young) nor tactically (he would not outsmart a mid table Serie A coach without much better players, same as Mourinho still being so unable to outsmart relegation Serie A coaches to have renounced defending for good).
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Still doesn’t take away from the fact they all take Pep. Pep might spend money but he makes them players better and tactically is excellent.

I always say there is a reason he gets all the money as clubs don’t think anyone would be better with it. City might of spent 1b with him but if he left and the next coach spent the same they would be worse
 
Nope… Guardiola is basically considered a fraud over here, that is a coach unable to win the highest trophy in european football without Messi, 10 years ago, and in spite of having led mighty Bayern and oil City.

Nobody sane of mind would hire him, there is no more Berlusconi at Milan or Moratti at Inter… the young Agnelli at Juve just risked to send his club tits up because of a ill-fated gamble witn Ronaldo. And he would outsmart pretty no one, simply because he never needed to in his career, therefore he is just not used to, he does not know what it means to play as an underdog at all.

On the contrary, Tuchel outsmarted him in the latest CL final, and that’s it for Pep and his perceived legacy over here. A marginal chance is the Saudis buying Inter for sportwashing purposes and willing to compete with the two PSG and City Emirates, which would spice things up a bit. Another, more realistic chance, is the SuperLeague starting in a way or another, and him being called to lead newly megarich Inter, Juve or Milan… a pipedream for sure.

Hinting he may go and coach Napoli or Atalanta is just ludicrous, their budget being 1/5 to 1/10 the sums he is used to… why not Spurs, West Ham or Everton, in case?
 
Bepi said:
Nope… Guardiola is basically considered a fraud over here, that is a coach unable to win the highest trophy in european football without Messi, 10 years ago, and in spite of having led mighty Bayern and oil City.

Nobody sane of mind would hire him, there is no more Berlusconi at Milan or Moratti at Inter… the young Agnelli at Juve just risked to send his club tits up because of a ill-fated gamble witn Ronaldo. And he would outsmart pretty no one, simply because he never needed to in his career, therefore he is just not used to, he does not know what it means to play as an underdog at all.

On the contrary, Tuchel outsmarted him in the latest CL final, and that’s it for Pep and his perceived legacy over here. A marginal chance is the Saudis buying Inter for sportwashing purposes and willing to compete with the two PSG and City Emirates, which would spice things up a bit. Another, more realistic chance, is the SuperLeague starting in a way or another, and him being called to lead newly megarich Inter, Juve or Milan… a pipedream for sure.

Hinting he may go and coach Napoli or Atalanta is just ludicrous, their budget being 1/5 to 1/10 the sums he is used to… why not Spurs, West Ham or Everton, in case?
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Yous can consider him a fraud all you want but he’s the best in the game and one game you are mentioning is just what it is one game. Pep made Tuchel seem like a mug last week but again it was one match.
Pep made 90+ points a thing to win this league and regardless of the money he makes teams better.
Also he would improve any team
 
432JuanMata said:
Yous can consider him a fraud all you want but he’s the best in the game and one game you are mentioning is just what it is one game. Pep made Tuchel seem like a mug last week but again it was one match.
Pep made 90+ points a thing to win this league and regardless of the money he makes teams better.
Also he would improve any team
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This CL final is just the latest example of Pep not being able to win the CL. He fecks that up all the time since he left Barca, and the longer this keeps going the more valid it is to view him as a fraud at the highest level (no, most PL teams are not that, and he does usually not win the PL title by relying on beating the top 4, just the rest of the league).
 
MassVolto said:
He did not make Bayern better even with their arch rivals three best players at the helm(Lewa, Gøtze, Hummels)
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You can not deny that he improved the league performances and broke Bundesliga records.

But at the highest level his Bayern lost the edge they had under Heynckes, so it is a mixed picture. Absolute dominance in the league, always failing late in the CL.
 
Juup's Bayern in 2013 were the most complete team I've ever seen.
 
He is clearly smart and, as long as results sustain his tenure, there will be no outburst/fallout with his CEO. He also took Conte’s recent remarks about Lukaku management in a pretty classy manner.
 
TheGame said:
Chelsea once again very lucky yesterday. They have not been playing their best but are picking up results. Mendy basically won them the game with an immense performance.
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Last season we battered many teams but still dropped points.

What comes around goes around.
 
TheGame said:
Chelsea once again very lucky yesterday. They have not been playing their best but are picking up results. Mendy basically won them the game with an immense performance.
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That’s what you need though, away from home against a team that look pretty difficult and you get 3 points. Them and City same GF and same GA, just shows the value of possession football (which yes sometimes is boring) when it comes to managing and getting through games. I think once RLC settles a bit more they’ll be more solid, I really rate him for that type of role in away games.
 
TheGame said:
Yeah, it is but not sure how sustainable it is during the season. At the minute they are getting the results though.
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Yesterday I'll give the benefit of the doubt it was a one off due to it being effectively a scratch side but yeah performances do need improving than of late.
 
Brentford had the entire international break to prepare for this game, we had two days with 1/3 of the starting XI not able to play.

Tuchel walking away with three points is not lucky. He is the real deal. Mendy making as many saves as he did just shows how good our back three has been this year.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
Brentford had the entire international break to prepare for this game, we had two days with 1/3 of the starting XI not able to play.

Tuchel walking away with three points is not lucky. He is the real deal. Mendy making as many saves as he did just shows how good our back three has been this year.
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The way the game went in the end Chelsea were lucky to win. Nonetheless the difference between a title winner and a contender can be exactly winning this type of games, so in that regard everything is fine, as long as Chelsea don't always get outplayed like they did yesterday in the final 20 minutes or what it was.
 
TheGame said:
Yeah, it is but not sure how sustainable it is during the season. At the minute they are getting the results though.
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It's certainly not sustainable for a serious title challenge but I'm sure we'll dominate most games going forward so it's not a concern at all. I also doubt we'll be playing a good side after an international break with 2 young CBs and an inexperienced DM again.

At the moment we're seeing some good squad rotation and Tuchel is learning about the squad's adaptability to the 3-5-2.
 
Yeah I don't think anybody expected Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah and Malang Sarr to be starting PL games this season. He's rotating the squad nicely, even if some of them are forced on him and he's getting good performances in places none of expected to get them from, Saul aside of course.
 
WeePat said:
Yeah I don't think anybody expected Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah and Malang Sarr to be starting PL games this season. He's rotating the squad nicely, even if some of them are forced on him and he's getting good performances in places none of expected to get them from, Saul aside of course.
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Chalobah was one I really didn't expect to get a single minute for Chelsea, I'm so pleased the Kounde move fell apart just because of that (no disrespect to Kounde, who I know nothing about).
 
We were pretty decent for 70 mins. Tuchel got the subs totally wrong and will learn from it I'm sure. RLC was solid, the midfield generally ceased to exist without Kova on. Team lost all composure.

Last 20 minutes we got battered, but need look at the whole game.
 
duffer said:
Chalobah was one I really didn't expect to get a single minute for Chelsea, I'm so pleased the Kounde move fell apart just because of that (no disrespect to Kounde, who I know nothing about).
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Yeah Chalobah came out of nowhere. I didn't even really consider him a prospect for the first team when he was in the youth set up/on loan. Hes grabbed his chance with both hands. He's the biggest surprise, but I genuinely thought Loftus-Cheek was done at the club. His little mini renaissance has been a joy to witness.

Honestly with Kounde. I rate him but I'd place him in the same category of talent as Guehi and Tomori, even Chalobah to be honest. I'm glad we didn't get him.
 
Mb194dc said:
We were pretty decent for 70 mins. Tuchel got the subs totally wrong and will learn from it I'm sure. RLC was solid, the midfield generally ceased to exist without Kova on. Team lost all composure.

Last 20 minutes we got battered, but need look at the whole game.
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How do you feel about potentially losing Rudiger? You guys should be fine defensively anyway I reckon
 
WeePat said:
Yeah Chalobah came out of nowhere. I didn't even really consider him a prospect for the first team when he was in the youth set up/on loan. Hes grabbed his chance with both hands. He's the biggest surprise, but I genuinely thought Loftus-Cheek was done at the club. His little mini renaissance has been a joy to witness.

Honestly with Kounde. I rate him but I'd place him in the same category of talent as Guehi and Tomori, even Chalobah to be honest. I'm glad we didn't get him.
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Bit harsh I think. He was genuinely one of the 3 best CBs in La Liga last season aged 21/22 - whilst Chalobah has been a revelation Kounde's CV is significantly better.

Given Chalobah's emergence though I don't think we should be pushing for Kounde unless Rudiger is gone, personally.
 
Daysleeper said:
How do you feel about potentially losing Rudiger? You guys should be fine defensively anyway I reckon
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I feel very bad about it!! Hard to find a defender better suited to the LCB role in Tuchel's system - Rudiger's aggression, ability to step up into midfield and cover the LB flank, and quality on the ball with either foot will be very hard to replace.

That said, I think Kounde might be a decent replacement on paper should it come to that, but in the near term that's a definite downgrade.
 
Daysleeper said:
How do you feel about potentially losing Rudiger? You guys should be fine defensively anyway I reckon
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He's a good player and a leader, he can be replaced though. Not worth breaking our wage and contract structure for though. We've made an offer and he'd be wise to accept it!
 
Daysleeper said:
How do you feel about potentially losing Rudiger? You guys should be fine defensively anyway I reckon
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I think Rudiger is shinning because of the system. I say this in no disrespect to Rudiger, he has been great. If he demands more than our wage structure allows, we can replace him. I would hate to see our team in a place that is unrealistic in wages if the day comes that Roman sells.
 
Mb194dc said:
He's a good player and a leader, he can be replaced though. Not worth breaking our wage and contract structure for though. We've made an offer and he'd be wise to accept it!
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Couldnt disagree more. He is our best defender and we really missed his aggressive defending yesterday. We have 4 main defenders for 3 CB slots in Rudiger, Azpilicueta, Silva & Christensen but I'd argue that Rudiger is undroppable and it's actually the other 3 fighting for the other 2 slots (if Dave isn't playing as a wingback). He deserves Kante money.
 
P-Ro said:
Couldnt disagree more. He is our best defender and we really missed his aggressive defending yesterday. We have 4 main defenders for 3 CB slots in Rudiger, Azpilicueta, Silva & Christensen but I'd argue that Rudiger is undroppable and it's actually the other 3 fighting for the other 2 slots (if Dave isn't playing as a wingback). He deserves Kante money.
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Agree with this. And he's not even asking for Kante money by most reports - he's one of the lowest paid regulars at £100k per week at the moment and reportedly wants something in the region of £200-230k per week. Seems entirely reasonable considering Chilwell is on £190k per week.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Agree with this. And he's not even asking for Kante money by most reports - he's one of the lowest paid regulars at £100k per week at the moment and reportedly wants something in the region of £200-230k per week. Seems entirely reasonable considering Chilwell is on £190k per week.
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I think the deal would have been done at that amount.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
I think the deal would have been done at that amount.
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According to The Athletic:

Rudiger is outside the top 10 earners at Chelsea with a salary of £100,000 a week. To put that in some perspective, it is £20,000 a week less than the base rate academy graduate Callum Hudson-Odoi earns and £50,000 a week less than Ruben Loftus-Cheek collects, neither of whom are first-team regulars.

Negotiations were put off until after the European Championship earlier this year at Rudiger’s request, but Chelsea’s opening offer was a disappointment when it came. Sources indicate it was only a minor raise on his current salary, which is why it was rejected.

There have been reports Rudiger has already made up his mind to leave Chelsea amid suggestions he is looking to earn £400,000 a week elsewhere, but this is far from the case. While he wants a significant pay-rise, the 28-year-old is realistic and aiming for a sum closer to the £200,000 a week mark to stay.
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Source: https://theathletic.com/2858749/202...ill-factors-in-rudigers-contract-uncertainty/
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Agree with this. And he's not even asking for Kante money by most reports - he's one of the lowest paid regulars at £100k per week at the moment and reportedly wants something in the region of £200-230k per week. Seems entirely reasonable considering Chilwell is on £190k per week.
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May be his last pay day in top of his game. He got some bad experience with Frank too. Just need to ensure his financial security.
TheGame said:
Yeah, it is but not sure how sustainable it is during the season. At the minute they are getting the results though.
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We are not even in second gear mate. Will probably hit top gear around festive period. Fringe players getting minutes now will be very handy in festive period.

We didn't losing points despite playing make shift defence after international game against strong physical Brentford team. First start for sarr another 19 year old in defence with Christensen the leader of cbs had to struggle at some point in the game especially physically imposing Brentford.

They will give any team a proper match in their home. Liverpool could voucher that with their 3-3 draw against them.
 
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TheGame said:
Yeah, it is but not sure how sustainable it is during the season. At the minute they are getting the results though.
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Brentford is the only game where we were lucky to get 3 points, what was the other games?.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
Bit harsh I think. He was genuinely one of the 3 best CBs in La Liga last season aged 21/22 - whilst Chalobah has been a revelation Kounde's CV is significantly better.

Given Chalobah's emergence though I don't think we should be pushing for Kounde unless Rudiger is gone, personally.
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He has a better CV at a higher level, for sure, and I don't mean to belittle his achievements. I just think the talent level isn't that dissimilar to those other 3 defenders. Tomori has already proven that by becoming one of Serie A's best defenders. Guehi and Chalobah will, in time, prove it too I think.
 
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