So in your world, CBs should be praised or get credit when GKs never make a save?
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 20
- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 4
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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So in your world, CBs should be praised or get credit when GKs never make a save?
I'm genuinely annoyed by this post. What I wanted to say is what I actually said, you cretin. It was plainly written down for you. Just read it and respond. Why make up something else?
Your reasoning here is nonsense by the way. Defenders always get a share of the credit in keeping clean sheets. You're insane if you don't think stopping the other team from scoring isn't a main consideration when defenders get awards, team of the year etc. Defending ie not conceding goals is literally their first job. The clue is in the name.
This is one of the most obvious things I've had to point out to someone in my entire life. I really worry for the state of this board if this sort of posting is getting people promoted.
Both CBs had a good game. The shit show around them is the issue, starting from the fullbacks to the midfielders.
He was good and seemed very alert at defending in the box which is expected of him. On the other hand, whenever we try to play an attacker offside but the flag stays down (resulting in a chance or a goal), you know the culprit it's either him or Valencia. In De Gea's big save these two were just so perfectly synchronized. Nevermind the fact that we didn't manage to get Correa even once offside when they were trying to isolate him against Valencia (this goes for the whole of the defence).
So you're agreeing that its a team effort and Smalling and De Gea have to work together along with the other players.
His defending is a joke once again. De Gea saved him millions times.
False.
True. De Gea saved Smalling's United career last couple years.
The ones posted by @11101, @Summit and @Pogue Mahone just over a week ago showing the amount of points dropped with him in the team, the amount of chances we create without him in the team and the fact that he made no tackles against Newcastle.
You like to talk about agenda posting, but here you are using stats when it suits your argument and dismissing them when it doesn't. It is clear that if there are people with agendas in this thread are those who defend Smalling season after season despite us not being competitive in the league for the 5 years that Smalling has been a mainstay central defender.
I don't have much to add tbh. I think Smalling's been decent these last couple of games. I'd rather he didn't start in games where we're going to be doing most of the attacking but - on current form - we definitely need him in games where we do a lot of defending. This dichotomy isn't ideal but it is what it is right now.
I think everyone here saying something against Smalling is making the same point, even if he is the best we have he is still not good enough. Some people are have just got their head in the sand and don't want to see the big picture that even when he had his best season where he didn't put a foot wrong we only came fifth, went out in the group stages of the Champions League and got dumped out of Europa by Liverpool of all teams who we beat home and away and they couldn't even make the Top 8. He just isn't the defender for the big occasion and no the Europa League final against Ajax isn't that big fecking occasion I am talking about considering we played mediocre teams and a whisker against Celta Vigo saved our bacon!
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Because Rojo is a better player.
That makes no sense at all. It's like saying when De Gea had his best season still we didn't finish in top 4, knocked out in so and so round, destroyed by so and so team.
Of course it makes sense because we are a team of 11 players, and what everyone in here has been saying is that we are a better team WITHOUT Smalling, but people defending Smalling take arbitrary stats to give their argument some credibility. Look up the stats I referred to above you will understand what I am on about.
Those stats which makes Smalling look bad because of Jones and Lukaku's mistakes? meh.
yeah these are just laughable stats. This doesn't even consider how strong opponents are. But that's fine though, it's suits your agenda.
1-5 we played teams like West Ham (H) , Swansea, Leicester (H), Stoke, Everton (H).
6-19 we played teams like Liverpool (A), City, Spurs, Chelsea (A), Leicester (A), Arsenal (A), Southampton (A).
20-22 we played Burnley and Southampton at home.
23-27: Burnley (A), Spurs (A),
So yeah who needs common sense when you can use such a poor stats.
To continue with more useless stats:
Romero - 5 cleansheets in 8 games. (62.5%)
De Gea - 19 in 33 (57.5%)
Last season:
Romero : 12 in 18 (66%)
De Gea: 16 in 45 (35%)
2015-16:
Romero: 8 in 13 (61.5%)
De Gea: 19 in 49 (38%)
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6-19 we also played Palace (H), Huddersfield (A), Newcastle (H), Brighton (H), Bournemouth (H) - if we should have created 69 or more in those 5 games considering that 4 were at home then that means in 9 other games which included Watford, West Brom, Southampton we created just 42.
We also created much more against Burnley and Southampton despite those two being draws and we played Everton (A) which you discounted as it doesn't suit your argument.
In the 5 games 23-27 we played Stoke (H) Huddersfield (H) Newcastle (A) and another 2 games away to Burnley and Spurs YET we created less chances in total than the 3 games. when Smalling didn't play.
Who needs common sense when you can skew things to suit your argument.
Oh yes, in the game Smalling didn't play we conceded 2 against Burnley at home and goalless draw at home to Southampton. So obvious we keep on shooting from all angles for equalizer and winner. It's obvious why we created so many chances against Southampton and Burnley, it's not even hard to think logically why.
Your sample size for the games Smalling didn't play is very small. It's just 8 games in which 5 are home games against poor teams.
How anyone can draw any meaningful conclusion from that is beyond me, of wait it's easy. Agenda posting.
Btw so you agree Romero > De Gea as he outperformed De Gea in every season?
Also using chances created stat to go against Smalling
No context, no consideration of opponents, no context whether it's home or away, not even considered whether we were chasing equaliser or winner or were comfortable winners.New low.
Oh yes, in the game Smalling didn't play we conceded 2 against Burnley at home and goalless draw at home to Southampton. So obvious we keep on shooting from all angles for equalizer and winner. It's obvious why we created so many chances against Southampton and Burnley, it's not even hard to think logically why.
Your sample size for the games Smalling didn't play is very small. It's just 8 games in which 5 are home games against poor teams.
How anyone can draw any meaningful conclusion from that is beyond me, of wait it's easy. Agenda posting.
Btw so you agree Romero > De Gea as he outperformed De Gea in every season?
Also using chances created stat to go against Smalling
New low.
So 1/3 of games played is a small sample size?
So 1/3 of games played is a small sample size?
8 games in which 5 were home games. Out of which in 1 game we conceded 2 in first 10-15 games and went all out attack, another is one where we didn't score the goal, so went all out attack to score against Southampton.
I'm asking again, is Romero better than De Gea? Considering how he outperformed De Gea in 3 seasons? Why are you ducking such a simple question?
Again new low to use attacking stats against a fecking CB. Not even a FB, fecking CB.
From 6-19: Pogba missed 9 games. Our most creative player missing 9 games has nothing to do with creating less chances isn't it?
You mean the spreadsheet he made about points dropped in Smalling's 18 starts vs Bailly's 8 and Rojo and Lindelof's 6? Jones had 20 starts and we conceded the same amount of goals in Smalling's 18. Also the stat with no source and no context about us conceding more shots in that same time when Smalling played? You don't see how ridiculous those stats are considering the difference in playtime between the players? 18 starts vs 8, 6 and 6, and in those 18 starts Smalling played against all the top teams in the league. You need a larger sample to make a fair comparison and you know this but don't let that get in the way of your Smalling hatefest. Agenda poster.
Then why isn't he starting over Smalling when he's fit? Mourinho has had many opportunities to drop Smalling since Rojo's return from his longterm injury three months ago. So this is your bias in a nutshell. If Rojo plays and helps keep a clean sheet its because he's a good defender, if Smalling does the same its solely on De Gea. What rubbish.
8 games in which 5 were home games. Out of which in 1 game we conceded 2 in first 10-15 games and went all out attack, another is one where we didn't score the goal, so went all out attack to score against Southampton.
I'm asking again, is Romero better than De Gea? Considering how he outperformed De Gea in 3 seasons? Why are you ducking such a simple question?
Again new low to use attacking stats against a fecking CB. Not even a FB, fecking CB.
From 6-19: Pogba missed 9 games. Our most creative player missing 9 games has nothing to do with creating less chances isn't it?
Why do you think Pep is so adamant to get a keeper who can play with his feet? Because that is where attacks start from, the back.
Smalling is a unique football player who can't play with his feet. So that obviously impacts our ability to move the ball effectively from the back.
And no Romero played two Premier League games while De Gea 35 so not exactly a comparison to make and there's no discussion to be had there either.
Pep doesn't manage United and we don't start attacks from the back, this is why De Gea pumps them long all day. You know this but you'll use anything you can to attack Smalling.
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Oh yeah nothing to do with Pogba missing 9 games and playing against stronger teams. CB is the second last position to blame for chances created. You are just clutching at straws now.
If Smalling wasn't available this season, and the team relied on these "better" other CBs we have, I think this season would be even much worse.
He's not the quality of CB United supposed to have as starter; but what can you say, when other CBs perform even worse, sicknotes and unreliable/inconsistent? And still few posters want to get rid of him. That's so fecking silly in so many level.
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I haven't really said anything about the other CB's. I think Bailly, Jones and Rojo are all better all round footballers but I don't discuss that here because this is the Smalling thread and we discuss Chris Smalling. All the Smalling apologists are adamant in bringing the keeper other CB's midfield and strikers in the conversations to defend him.
I think we should get rid of him while we can for a decent fee while they've been arguing for seasons now that he is our best CB so we should keep him. We are Manchester United we need to have better defenders than Chris fecking Smalling!!
We keep buying them every season but it's not working out so Smalling gets a pass just because he can stay fit.
He only has his height, without it he'd never be a footballer.
What a dumb comment to make considering we have had our worst league finishes with DDG's best seasons. Wish football was about one man.
Smalling was Manchester United Players' Player of the Year 2015–16.
Yes, we came fifth, went out of the CL in group stages, and immediately got dumped out by Liverpool in the Europa League R32.
We will never challenge for the league or CL again if we are relying on Smalling as our defensive rock!
Find the agenda posters above.
Out.
feck this, not sure it's worth it but here we go.
The discussion would be less stupid if there was less exaggeration. I happen to agree Smalling is not our best option to build on to improve further, but you’re not doing anyone any service with statements like this. Obviously being players player of the year for a 5th place PL team is a good argument that a player has a high level in that league.
Also saying ‘all he has is his height’ about a player that has the most interceptions in his team, that is clearly a very good duel player also on the ground, and that is very quick for a CB, it’s just very difficult to have a balanced discussions with such exaggerations.
While I agree that our chance creation isn’t irrelevant insofar as Smalling is so visibly our weakest player in starting attacks from the back, it is neither very strong evidence as a mere statistic.
Yes, we came fifth, went out of the CL in group stages, and immediately got dumped out by Liverpool in the Europa League R32.
We will never challenge for the league or CL again if we are relying on Smalling as our defensive rock!
Find the agenda posters above.
Out.
Agenda poster of the motherfvcking year. @Antonedwin is giving you a run for his money tho. In Smalling we hate! As others have mentioned, De Gea had his best seasons for us thus far when we won nothing of note. Is this why maybe you think he wasn't voted among the worlds best by the journos outside England? You can't fault one player on the team's lack of success. Rojo and Jones have not once managed more than 25 league games in a single season. Before you predictably 'call me out' for talking about other players in this thread, don't you think that reason alone explains why Smalling is the most consistent and reliable CB we have?
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They had one great chance and it was Smallings fault, didn't react at all to their players movement.
feck this, not sure it's worth it but here we go.
So if I'm reading this correctly:
With Smalling in the team we take less shots and concede more shots against us? That roughly sticks with the trend i posted of the last couple of seasons.
With Pogba in the team we take more shots and concede roughly the same number of shots, maybe slightly less?
I think you need to tone it down a little bit with the swearing. I know the truth is hard to take in but there's no reason to get upset or even angry about it. You know you would defend Smalling to the ends of the earth even if he was the one solely responsible for bringing the rapture upon us.
Your argument is Smalling is the best by default because others haven't managed to stay fit. That's not how ability and talent works. There's no default about it. My argument all along has been he is not good enough to be here, we need to replace and get rid! We have tried to replace but it hasn't worked out with injuries especially. Leave it now let's discuss the next time he has another one of his trademark moments like last night.
You are missing a lot.
Well explain then. That's how it reads to me.
I'm not going to explain as I'm browsing from my phone. Just read few posts above.
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