City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

Does anybody praise Juventus for the titles they won when they cheated?

Or do they remember that the titles were stripped away from them, they were relegated to Serie B and are still associated with a cheating scandal from almost 20 years ago?

And that was match fixing over a couple of seasons!
 
Oldyella said:
They will bottle the charges, or it will make their 'best league in the world' moniker look ridiculous. Better to sweep all the cheating under the rug.
Click to expand...
They’ve already started the motion of moving towards a monetary fine rather than points penalty . City will end up paying an absolutely mega fine but have no real consequences and the narrative about the size of the fine in the media will be that it’s unprecedented and probably far too harsh. City will moan that they can’t appeal and it’s a travesty and in return their pressure and the pressure from client journalists in the media will ensure that the EPL come out and confirm that the extraordinary fine will not be counted on their accounts against their future FFP targets.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
Does anybody praise Juventus for the titles they won when they cheated?

Or do they remember that the titles were stripped away from them, they were relegated to Serie B and are still associated with a cheating scandal from almost 20 years ago?

And that was match fixing over a couple of seasons!
Click to expand...
They didn't have the immense funds or global PR outreach that City has. Plus City has been excellent at selling themselves in non-core football countries and amongst people new to the game. Go and read the comments section of a new age site like the Athletic and City is lauded to the heavens and beyond the nearest galaxy as the way football should be managed and played.
 
Pexbo said:
They’ve already started the motion of moving towards a monetary fine rather than points penalty . City will end up paying an absolutely mega fine but have no real consequences and the narrative about the size of the fine in the media will be that it’s unprecedented and probably far too harsh. City will moan that they can’t appeal and it’s a travesty and in return their pressure and the pressure from client journalists in the media will ensure that the EPL come out and confirm that the extraordinary fine will not be counted on their accounts against their future FFP targets.
Click to expand...

Have you actually seen any evidence of journalists being paid (assuming that is what is meant by ‘client journalists in the media’)? Or isn’t just an assumption because you think it doesn’t get as much column inches as a story of that size should?

The thing with big conspiracies of silence is that they inevitably fail, it only takes one whistleblower out of the hundreds of UK based sports journalists and publications.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
Does anybody praise Juventus for the titles they won when they cheated?

Or do they remember that the titles were stripped away from them, they were relegated to Serie B and are still associated with a cheating scandal from almost 20 years ago?

And that was match fixing over a couple of seasons!
Click to expand...

Juventus were relegated, Rangers were relegated (which was such an enormous deal for scottish football). There's plenty of examples, the PL will just bottle it though and I wouldnt be surprised if there's corruption behind it
 
Oldyella said:
They will bottle the charges, or it will make their 'best league in the world' moniker look ridiculous. Better to sweep all the cheating under the rug.
Click to expand...

Yeah but there's some powerful interests represented here against City.

Even on a very basic level, what will UEFA make of it if the Premier League doesn't impose the rules? English clubs might be frightened of speaking out against City in public but I guarantee Bayern, Barcelona, Real etc...won't stay quiet now they have started dominating the CL too.
 
Solius said:
People who make the fickle decision to 'support' them will also abandon ship when they have to follow them in League One.
Click to expand...
Sure but this moral stance has no meaning until they get penalised (if they do). Till then they keep growing as a football club while we somehow keep shrinking. This idea that it doesn’t matter doesn’t reflect reality.
 
RoyH1 said:
They didn't have the immense funds or global PR outreach that City has. Plus City has been excellent at selling themselves in non-core football countries and amongst people new to the game. Go and read the comments section of a new age site like the Athletic and City is lauded to the heavens and beyond the nearest galaxy as the way football should be managed and played.
Click to expand...

Unlike dreams, Bots can be buy.
 
It's starting to feel all too mechanical now. It's almost as if City has turned into an AI/computer generated team, and it's now whether humans can defeat them - a bit like playing a computer game or chess on the hardest setting. If you beat the computer, well done. If not, well it doesn't really matter.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Sure but this moral stance has no meaning until they get penalised (if they do). Till then they keep growing as a football club while we somehow keep shrinking. This idea that it doesn’t matter doesn’t reflect reality.
Click to expand...

Yeah but their growth is about as legit as a crypto meme coin. Bubbles always burst.
 
duffer said:
Again, I've never met a neutral or casual fan who loves them.

I'm sure you're right about online social media followers, I just don't care as I don't interact with that world.
Click to expand...
In Southamerica ESPN (which is mostly Argentinians) has been banging their drum for the last 15 years because of Tevez, then Agüero, and now Álvarez, and because of Guardiola and them being the mini Barcelona which is the other team they unconditionally support because of Messi.

So their broadcast is pro barca, pro Messi, pro Guardiola and pro city. And it's very VERY disgusting. (Imagine watching that disgusting broadcast with commentators almost celebrating 09 and 11 CL finals as their win)

That has lead that the common football fan from Southamerica really likes City and Barcelona, without being necessarily a die hard fan. Their propaganda really worked.
 
Oldyella said:
They will bottle the charges, or it will make their 'best league in the world' moniker look ridiculous. Better to sweep all the cheating under the rug.
Click to expand...
Yeah they probably will get away with it. But to me they'll be like Lance Armstrong if he had been found "innocent". I, and everyone else, would always know that he was a doping cnut despite what the record books said.

If City get away with it expect it to be forever brought by fans everywhere that they cheated.
 
Traub said:
It's starting to feel all too mechanical now. It's almost as if City has turned into an AI/computer generated team, and it's now whether humans can defeat them - a bit like playing a computer game or chess on the hardest setting. If you beat the computer, well done. If not, well it doesn't really matter.
Click to expand...
Everything is artificial at that club. Artificially inflated finances, the business artificially grown simply by chucking endless money at problems, artificial football played on the pitch doing the same patterns again and again under the other team dies of boredom, artificial hype online from bots and glory hunting dickheads who follow players more than clubs, artificial adverts where Jimmy Turnip (local legend) sells shampoo because...why not.

All they need to do now is have Pep visit Turkey for a new hairline and they'll win the true game of football.
 
Nicolarra90 said:
In Southamerica ESPN (which is mostly Argentinians) has been banging their drum for the last 15 years because of Tevez, then Agüero, and now Álvarez, and because of Guardiola and them being the mini Barcelona which is the other team they unconditionally support because of Messi.

So their broadcast is pro barca, pro Messi, pro Guardiola and pro city. And it's very VERY disgusting. (Imagine watching that disgusting broadcast with commentators almost celebrating 09 and 11 CL finals as their win)

That has lead that the common football fan from Southamerica really likes City and Barcelona, without being necessarily a die hard fan. Their propaganda really worked.
Click to expand...
This changes quickly though, global fans often follow players if they have big names from their own country. Look at South Korea moving from United to Spurs overall because of Son or the rise of Brighton fans in Japan due to Mitoma. It's the same with Latin America, if you can snap up one of the more popular national team players, you immediately gain the attention of a large footballing fan base. If United signed Neymar for example, and he did well, our popularity in Brazil would balloon. That's why everyone is desperate to find a player with some kind of Chinese or Indian heritage because their value would be off the charts.
 
Adisa said:
You kid yourself thinking their achievements don’t matter. See you in a decade.
Click to expand...

Achievements do matter and no one will question the greatness of Kevin De Bryune or Sergio Aguero, but many will question the means by which the business entity that brought all these great players together.

There is no doubt that City earned their titles on the pitch in one important sense -- the best footballers in the world defeating the best footballers in the world. But the point is that City violated financial rules and other legal restrictions on the formation of these great squads, and to be clear no one is accusing Kompany, Ederson, Grealish or De Bryune of ethical breaches, the football world will care. What's done is done but the FA cannot turn a blind eye to blatant abuse of the rules that are designed to ensure the integrity of the sport.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Everything is artificial at that club. Artificially inflated finances, the business artificially grown simply by chucking endless money at problems, artificial football played on the pitch doing the same patterns again and again under the other team dies of boredom, artificial hype online from bots and glory hunting dickheads who follow players more than clubs, artificial adverts where Jimmy Turnip (local legend) sells shampoo because...why not.

All they need to do now is have Pep visit Turkey for a new hairline and they'll win the true game of football.
Click to expand...

City as the club ceased to exist in 2008, closed up shop. What was then erected is the closest thing to a sports expansion franchise we see in the US, but more so a vanity project.
 
It's so weird when people say their success doesn't matter. Unless they're punished for the 115 charges (and actually punished, not just a silly and affordable fine) then history won't remember that, it will remember the records set and their achievements.

I don't know a single Man City fan. But for the sake of football it's just far better and healthier for Arsenal to win the league than City, despite how insufferable some Arsenal fans are. Even Liverpool, our most hated rival, are at least a proper club who Klopp has revived through his hard work.
 
Irwin99 said:
It's so weird when people say their success doesn't matter. Unless they're punished for the 115 charges (and actually punished, not just a silly and affordable fine) then history won't remember that, it will remember the records set and their achievements.

I don't know a single Man City fan. But for the sake of football it's just far better and healthier for Arsenal to win the league than City, despite how insufferable some Arsenal fans are. Even Liverpool, our most hated rival, are at least a proper club who Klopp has revived through his hard work.
Click to expand...

Remember how painful Liverpool winning the league was a few years ago?
And how City winning the treble barely registered?
That's what people's about their "success" not mattering.
 
Sandikan said:
Remember how painful Liverpool winning the league was a few years ago?
And how City winning the treble barely registered?
That's what people's about their "success" not mattering.
Click to expand...
Tbh even the Liverpool win barely registered, with the world gone to shit. Just one fewer thing to mock them about.
 
Irwin99 said:
It's so weird when people say their success doesn't matter. Unless they're punished for the 115 charges (and actually punished, not just a silly and affordable fine) then history won't remember that, it will remember the records set and their achievements.

I don't know a single Man City fan. But for the sake of football it's just far better and healthier for Arsenal to win the league than City, despite how insufferable some Arsenal fans are. Even Liverpool, our most hated rival, are at least a proper club who Klopp has revived through his hard work.
Click to expand...

Football fans will remember it that's for sure, I know the new thing to say is that their success matters all of a sudden, but unless they're found innocent of the charges then their trophies will be forever tainted.
 
Sandikan said:
I think it's a good intelligence test.
Trying to write a team off who had about a 15 point lead cruising to the title and trying to write it off.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It’s very funny that they won it like that and didn’t get to bask in it.

But they smashed the league and would have won it had every team allowed no away fans while they played to an empty stadium for the final however many games. They were phenomenal that season.
 
Sandikan said:
Remember how painful Liverpool winning the league was a few years ago?
And how City winning the treble barely registered?
That's what people's about their "success" not mattering.
Click to expand...
I am curious: did Liverpool’s 2019 champions league sting more than City’s treble?

City won the UCL and the treble for the first time, while Liverpool have won the UCL quite a few times now.

So logically, City’s treble must have stung more, right?
 
Infordin said:
I am curious: did Liverpool’s 2019 champions league sting more than City’s treble?

City won the UCL and the treble for the first time, while Liverpool have won the UCL quite a few times now.

So logically, City’s treble must have stung more, right?
Click to expand...
To me, yes. I’m not going to lie, seeing our city rivals match our biggest achievement last season definitely stung.
 
Infordin said:
I am curious: did Liverpool’s 2019 champions league sting more than City’s treble?

City won the UCL and the treble for the first time, while Liverpool have won the UCL quite a few times now.

So logically, City’s treble must have stung more, right?
Click to expand...

Nothing city 'win' matters to me because they cheated to get there.
 
Reddevildans said:
Its all about Pep. He's in a class of his own. Once he goes I hope we see them fall a way (even slightly down 1 level) thus giving others hope. We just need to get our shit together and capitalise. Hate to admit it but his football and citys structure is far superior to anyone's in the league. We were never really competing even though we finished 2nd a few times lets be honest.
Click to expand...
You don’t think that if you give these unlimited oil money to someone like Klopp, he probably wins everything as well?

How much of it is really Pep?
 
Infordin said:
You don’t think that if you give these unlimited oil money to someone like Klopp, he probably wins everything as well?

How much of it is really Pep?
Click to expand...
A lot. Klopp would have won the CL faster but would probably be less consistent in the league.

Klopp has also been the second best manager in the world for quite some time, so obviously he would do great. But it's not like they'll be getting Klopp after Pep anyway.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Yeah they probably will get away with it. But to me they'll be like Lance Armstrong if he had been found "innocent". I, and everyone else, would always know that he was a doping cnut despite what the record books said.

If City get away with it expect it to be forever brought by fans everywhere that they cheated.
Click to expand...
That's not true - while you are a Pigeon of common sense, if they are not convicted and thrown the book at, morons, contrarians and whataboutery artists will just repeat "not found guilty" ad nauseam, even though a lot of proof is already out there because of the leaks, and also because if you have even half a brain it's just obvious.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Yeah they probably will get away with it. But to me they'll be like Lance Armstrong if he had been found "innocent". I, and everyone else, would always know that he was a doping cnut despite what the record books said.

If City get away with it expect it to be forever brought by fans everywhere that they cheated.
Click to expand...

The problem with that analogy is that Utd’s net spend is considerably higher than City’s over the last decade. And in fact is comfortably the biggest in the Premiership.

So comparing Lance Armstrong’s physical doping to City’s financial doping seems a bit off. A better analogy would be a Tour de France where one team (Utd) has ‘earned’ the right to dope, and another team (City) hasn’t earned the right, but has done it anyway.

So whilst you could clearly still argue that anything won by City should have an asterisk next to it, they aren’t doing anything that Utd aren’t already doing. Utd are simply allowed to do it, and indeed have done it more than anyone else.
 
NicolaSacco said:
The problem with that analogy is that Utd’s net spend is considerably higher than City’s over the last decade. And in fact is comfortably the biggest in the Premiership.

So comparing Lance Armstrong’s physical doping to City’s financial doping seems a bit off. A better analogy would be a Tour de France where one team (Utd) has ‘earned’ the right to dope, and another team (City) hasn’t earned the right, but has done it anyway.

So whilst you could clearly still argue that anything won by City should have an asterisk next to it, they aren’t doing anything that Utd aren’t already doing. Utd are simply allowed to do it, and indeed have done it more than anyone else.
Click to expand...
No, it's not. That makes no sense whatsoever.
 
NicolaSacco said:
The problem with that analogy is that Utd’s net spend is considerably higher than City’s over the last decade. And in fact is comfortably the biggest in the Premiership.

So comparing Lance Armstrong’s physical doping to City’s financial doping seems a bit off. A better analogy would be a Tour de France where one team (Utd) has ‘earned’ the right to dope, and another team (City) hasn’t earned the right, but has done it anyway.

So whilst you could clearly still argue that anything won by City should have an asterisk next to it, they aren’t doing anything that Utd aren’t already doing. Utd are simply allowed to do it, and indeed have done it more than anyone else.
Click to expand...
Good try. The old net spend argument. Firstly, picking an arbitrary time period by definition means that you're excluding the very real possibility that City were only able to get in revenue from players they'd cheated to buy in the first place.

Secondly - and this is the key bit - City were only able to arrive into their position a decade ago because they had cheated, and outspent entire leagues in the period leading up to it.

I guess a better view of the analogy would be City were Lance Armstrong, built up a 100 mile lead on the other competitors through cheating, then they swapped in a different rider who wasn't doping, and he's managed to keep the lead over everyone else.

Further, and this really needs repeating: Manchester United are sh*t at spending money. That is a separate fact, completely untethered to City's behaviour. Manchester United are allowed to spend money because it has earned that money, and ibecause all of the premier league clubs got together and signed up to the concept that you can only spend a certain amount relative to what you make. Manchester City also signed up to that agreement. And then broke it. That's the point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.