City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

C'est Moi Cantona said:
They've said 'years', and in a way that somehow makes you believe this is a perfectly acceptable timeframe.
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We all know that city's owners aren't going to admit their wrongdoings and start playing by the rules. They will employ the best legal advice money can buy and fight dirty. The PL know this as well as anyone and have rightly tempered expectations wrt timeframe.

I've said it before, but it's the ongoing dishonesty and the lack of a credible possibility of reform, which means the only possible outcome from all of this is a forced sale, amongst the other sanctions. The same ownership simply cannot be allowed to continue.
 
Sandikan said:
Wow, do you really think this would happen?
It'd be the most incredible situation in English football in living memory.

I think there will be a punishment but flimsy ish. Plus no stripping of titles.
But there's no chance ownership could be removed. That takes world significance war types situations like we saw with Abrahmovich.
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I genuinely think it will, theres been a big move towards clamping down since the City charges and the FA are pulling no punches, I mean Chelsea has self-reported and United were fined for a tiny breach. If Everton get 12 points we're getting smashed and can have no complaints when we do. It feels like the league has been firming up to make sure there's no wiggle room if City lose and I think the punishment will be at least a big enough points deduction for relegation (depending on the no. of charges City go down on). But if we got down on the majority I think absolutely the punishment will be severe.

That said I think simply relegating City one division without forcing a change of owners will be pointless punishment. Cause we'll come right back and spend at most 2 seasons out of the CL.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
If I remember correctly when the charges were brought MOTD said something like 'it's not the players fault though is it', and The Sunday Supplement used to harp on about how well they looked after the press.

It tells you all you need to know about where the press are with this.
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Excatly.

Im sure the players were not aware about dodgy sponsors or creative accounting, it has been footballs worst kept secret.:rolleyes:
 
padr81 said:
I genuinely think it will, theres been a big move towards clamping down since the City charges and the FA are pulling no punches, I mean Chelsea has self-reported and United were fined for a tiny breach. If Everton get 12 points we're getting smashed and can have no complaints when we do. It feels like the league has been firming up to make sure there's no wiggle room if City lose and I think the punishment will be at least a big enough points deduction for relegation (depending on the no. of charges City go down on). But if we got down on the majority I think absolutely the punishment will be severe.

That said I think simply relegating City one division without forcing a change of owners will be pointless punishment. Cause we'll come right back and spend at most 2 seasons out of the CL.
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Would be hard to do that without government involvement. Even if they relegated City to the conference I reckon Abu Dhabi have invested too much at this stage to sell up.
 
padr81 said:
I genuinely think it will, theres been a big move towards clamping down since the City charges and the FA are pulling no punches, I mean Chelsea has self-reported and United were fined for a tiny breach. If Everton get 12 points we're getting smashed and can have no complaints when we do. It feels like the league has been firming up to make sure there's no wiggle room if City lose and I think the punishment will be at least a big enough points deduction for relegation (depending on the no. of charges City go down on). But if we got down on the majority I think absolutely the punishment will be severe.

That said I think simply relegating City one division without forcing a change of owners will be pointless punishment. Cause we'll come right back and spend at most 2 seasons out of the CL.
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I think myself and you are of the same mind here. I agree the PL is probably very much trying to make this air tight in order to not allow City to wriggle out. For me, the 115 charges smacked of throwing as much as possible at City to stretch their legal team. I suspect that not all of them will be punishable, but the idea is to throw so much at City that they need to wade through the smaller charges, which hampers their ability to focus on the big stuff. However, this has consequently caused the situation to drag out.

The real killer in my opinion for City in this situation, which I have mentioned elsewhere, is the lack of ability to go to CAS and the PL's voting structure. I just cannot see how they're going to buy enough influence unless this whole process is just an extortion racket by the other PL clubs.
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
I don’t understand how this works at all but I’d guess the difference between City and Everton is that City can afford to buy their way out of this, whereas Everton can’t. So basically city get away with cheating by cheating so much more that it won’t even matter in the end that they’ve cheated.
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City are accused of cooking the books and fake sponsorships. That covers their FFP overspends.
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
Did you admire Lance Armstrong as much when it became apparent that he had cheated to win all is Tour de France titles? I assume you didn’t because when you cheat to win it means you didn’t think you had the ability to win fairly, therefore it doesn’t count.
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If you can prove that the City-players are using steroids then you have a good comparison - if not, this is possibly the strangest I have ever seen.
 
If they are going in this hard on Everton for one charge, I can only imagine what sort of punishment City might receive once all their charges are investigated. What are we thinking? Having to start at the bottom of the English Pyramid? Or less severe?
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
If they are going in this hard on Everton for one charge, I can only imagine what sort of punishment City might receive once all their charges are investigated. What are we thinking? Having to start at the bottom of the English Pyramid? Or less severe?
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They’ll buy and bribe their way out of it and it’ll be a nothing punishment.

They’ll probably lose a season out of it. Nothing more.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
If they are going in this hard on Everton for one charge, I can only imagine what sort of punishment City might receive once all their charges are investigated. What are we thinking? Having to start at the bottom of the English Pyramid? Or less severe?
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If they're consistent in scaling City's charges in line with Everton's then yes, they'd be docked enough points to drop a few tiers in the pyramid.

Though in the real world, the FA likely considers Football too big a pull to the English game, so will be hesitant to inflict anything beyond a symbolic and palatable transfer ban or large fine.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
If they are going in this hard on Everton for one charge, I can only imagine what sort of punishment City might receive once all their charges are investigated. What are we thinking? Having to start at the bottom of the English Pyramid? Or less severe?
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Unfortunately I have no faith in them doing anything to City. At the very worst they'll get an inconsequential fine and docked just enough points to stop them winning the league for one season, while still giving them a decent chance at CL qualification.
 
Dave Smith said:
The real killer in my opinion for City in this situation, which I have mentioned elsewhere, is the lack of ability to go to CAS and the PL's voting structure. I just cannot see how they're going to buy enough influence unless this whole process is just an extortion racket by the other PL clubs.
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I have no doubts the Glazers would accept a number from UAE if offered/negotiated, they could care less about competition and rules.
 
lysglimt said:
If you can prove that the City-players are using steroids then you have a good comparison - if not, this is possibly the strangest I have ever seen.
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Is it? Cheating is cheating. There are of course different methods of cheating but at the end of the day both Lance Armstrong and Manchester City achieved great success by means of cheating.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
If they are going in this hard on Everton for one charge, I can only imagine what sort of punishment City might receive once all their charges are investigated. What are we thinking? Having to start at the bottom of the English Pyramid? Or less severe?
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The pl can't decide where city go. They can only at worst expel them.

If the pl expel them then it comes down to the football league to decide if they'll accept city. If they do then they decide, if the fl refuse them entry it goes to the next tier and the next at their own discretion.
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
Is it? Cheating is cheating. There are of course different methods of cheating but at the end of the day both Lance Armstrong and Manchester City achieved great success by means of cheating.
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Pretty much, cheating is cheating, whether it's financial doping, drug doping or paying off referees.

I enjoy rival clubs play, I liked watching Arsenal back in the day under Wenger, because they were a good side to watch. I even like watching Liverpool play under Klopp at times.

But no matter how good the City football is it's all from cheating and it all feels so dead and soulless. Like Armstrong and any other cheats, there's always that nagging feeling that something is off and it ruins the enjoyment.
 
Oranges038 said:
Pretty much, cheating is cheating, whether it's financial doping, drug doping or paying off referees.

I enjoy rival clubs play, I liked watching Arsenal back in the day under Wenger, because they were a good side to watch. I even like watching Liverpool play under Klopp at times.

But no matter how good the City football is it's all from cheating and it all feels so dead and soulless. Like Armstrong and any other cheats, there's always that nagging feeling that something is off and it ruins the enjoyment.
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100%
 
Rhyme Animal said:
They’ll buy and bribe their way out of it and it’ll be a nothing punishment.

They’ll probably lose a season out of it. Nothing more.
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Kaos said:
If they're consistent in scaling City's charges in line with Everton's then yes, they'd be docked enough points to drop a few tiers in the pyramid.

Though in the real world, the FA likely considers Football too big a pull to the English game, so will be hesitant to inflict anything beyond a symbolic and palatable transfer ban or large fine.
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Alex99 said:
Unfortunately I have no faith in them doing anything to City. At the very worst they'll get an inconsequential fine and docked just enough points to stop them winning the league for one season, while still giving them a decent chance at CL qualification.
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padr81 said:
The pl can't decide where city go. They can only at worst expel them.

If the pl expel them then it comes down to the football league to decide if they'll accept city. If they do then they decide, if the fl refuse them entry it goes to the next tier and the next at their own discretion.
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It happened to Rangers, dumped to the bottom division. And Rangers were far more important to the Scottish league than City are to ours.
 
lysglimt said:
If you can prove that the City-players are using steroids then you have a good comparison - if not, this is possibly the strangest I have ever seen.
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It's financial doping.

How do you explain Man City having the highest revenue in football? Bigger than Real Madrid?
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
It happened to Rangers, dumped to the bottom division. And Rangers were far more important to the Scottish league than City are to ours.
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Were Rangers not in the financial shitter when they were punished? It's not comparable because City are sat on a mountain of money.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
It happened to Rangers, dumped to the bottom division. And Rangers were far more important to the Scottish league than City are to ours.
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The Premier League have no power outside of the Premier League. The Football League is a completely different competition and body. The PL can expel them but outside of that have no say in where City are placed in the football pyramid. The only possible way they have a say is a points deduction but that means Championship at worst. The PL can't dictate to the FL for example "Put City in league 2 or league 1" it's not their competition so nothing to do with them once City are out of the PL.
 
After watching the Newcastle-Arsenal match today, I'm 100% sure City will not be punished. The EPL is fully owned by the Middle East countries. The former colonizer has been fully colonized now.
 
Buckie said:
After watching the Newcastle-Arsenal match today, I'm 100% sure City will not be punished. The EPL is fully owned by the Middle East countries. The former colonizer has been fully colonized now.
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I’ve never been one for conspiracy theories but even I raised my eyebrow when I found out PL refs go over and do the Saudi league games etc. Seems completely wrong with the Middle East connections in the PL.

Newcastles owners are literally paying PL refs it’s very odd.
 
Castia said:
I’ve never been one for conspiracy theories but even I raised my eyebrow when I found out PL refs go over and do the Saudi league games etc. Seems completely wrong with the Middle East connections in the PL.

Newcastles owners are literally paying PL refs it’s very odd.
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But Newcastle and City aren't state owned so it's grand :wenger:
 
Looks they'll win 4 on the bounce without any repercussions for their cheating.
 
padr81 said:
The Premier League have no power outside of the Premier League. The Football League is a completely different competition and body. The PL can expel them but outside of that have no say in where City are placed in the football pyramid. The only possible way they have a say is a points deduction but that means Championship at worst. The PL can't dictate to the FL for example "Put City in league 2 or league 1" it's not their competition so nothing to do with them once City are out of the PL.
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Yes but if the expulsion is time limited to say 5 years, the Football League will have a dilemma. If they put them in the Championship, they won't be able to promote their top team for 5 years. I still reckon it'll be permanent expulsion.

If not, the divisions dropped should reflect the years. 5 years = 5 league drops.
 
lysglimt said:
If you can prove that the City-players are using steroids then you have a good comparison - if not, this is possibly the strangest I have ever seen.
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City have led the biggest sporting corruption and cheating regime we've ever seen in modern sports in terms of scale of the impact (winning a CL thereby denying a legitimate club a CL); duration (15 years of cheating); and, the amounts of cash involved (their total investment on and off books must easily exceed £5-7bn).

Given that Lance Armstrong was the biggest cheating regime in sports before City, there's definitely a comparison to be made.

Permanent expulsion from PL. Titles stripped. Rule changes to prevent this level of corruption ever happening again. Anything less is a farce.
 
City won the lotto and still fecked it up by choosing to break the rules. They still would of gotten to where they wanted without systematic breaking of the rules but their impatience has put a blot on anything they achieved, as it was through the process of cheating. It's absurd that they still benefit from this and no action has been taken, it compromises the integrity of the game.
 
Find it funny that a club with all those charges and got out of a UEFA charge will win the best club award 2 years running. Nothing will happen to their titles and achievements on the field.
 
Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
City have led the biggest sporting corruption and cheating regime we've ever seen in modern sports in terms of scale of the impact (winning a CL thereby denying a legitimate club a CL); duration (15 years of cheating); and, the amounts of cash involved (their total investment on and off books must easily exceed £5-7bn).

Given that Lance Armstrong was the biggest cheating regime in sports before City, there's definitely a comparison to be made.

Permanent expulsion from PL. Titles stripped. Rule changes to prevent this level of corruption ever happening again. Anything less is a farce.
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This is almost a flat-earth level conspiracy level post. Have you read the charges from UEFA? The whole thing related to 2 £15 M payments and not billions as you seem to be suggesting. I am a City fan, and I do believe that if we have broken any accounting rules then we should be punished, but to suggest that all of our success is related to a few small payments (relative to our other spending, and other clubs spending) isn't correct or fair I think. We've managed to cultivate a great team spirit throughout the organisation and have managed the football side of things very well. Those decisions are why we have been successful.

I am not saying that money hasn't helped, just that these accounting charges are not the reason for the success. It all amounts to a couple of player transfers worth of money that is at dispute so far. The Premier League charges might be more, but we haven't seen any evidence to suggest that that I am aware of.

Hopefully it will come out that we are innocent in the end - the CAS ruling gives me confidence on that front - as the judges did mention that they thought we handled everything above-board in their ruling, but if not we should take the punishment on the chin. I just don't see it being some end-of-days punishment as some seem to be suggesting, nor do I think we are Lance Armstrong level cheats. I now expect to get a load of crap coming here as a City fan, and fair enough.
 
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