Cop in America doing a bad job, again

GiddyUp said:
You have been very accommodating regarding questions from posters here and we appreciate your insights. I do have one more for you if you have time to answer. Would the benefits outweigh the cons if LEO's only carried non lethal on their person and lethal in a lock box in the patrol car?
I personally feel that a death sentence is totally unwarranted for minor infractions no matter how much the situation gets out of control. If the person being apprehended is an immediate danger to the public lethal force maybe warranted but if it's 3 cops surrounding an unarmed person resisting arrest why must they die?
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The reason a lot of things changed regarding policing and how things are approached for the CHP and other departments was due to the Newhall Incident here in California. I probably wouldn’t do it much justice by trying to explain it but there’s a lot of good resources on it if you’d like to look it up. Here’s one



Carrying only non-lethal on their person and having potentially armed people knowing that makes the job an uphill struggle and wouldn’t be successful in any way, I feel. If people didn’t have such easy access to firearms then I could see that approach being more successful, but there’s plenty of videos of traffic stops etc where people jump out with handguns and rifles and open fire where even with the officer having immediate access to a firearm on their belt, they’re already at a disadvantage. Plus ECD’s aren’t always as effective as people would have you believe.

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There was a discussion here about the counter-productive nature of violent protest. Looks like it gets stuff done!

 
WI_Red said:
We should have more studies like this, but thanks to The Dickey Amendment we didn't have any CDC research on gun violence for 2 decades. The date of this publication is not a coincidence.
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Can't be having things like mental health studies and the fact rates of suicide are much higher in homes with a gun present impacting policy and influencing the public.
 
Skizzo said:
The reason a lot of things changed regarding policing and how things are approached for the CHP and other departments was due to the Newhall Incident here in California. I probably wouldn’t do it much justice by trying to explain it but there’s a lot of good resources on it if you’d like to look it up. Here’s one



Carrying only non-lethal on their person and having potentially armed people knowing that makes the job an uphill struggle and wouldn’t be successful in any way, I feel. If people didn’t have such easy access to firearms then I could see that approach being more successful, but there’s plenty of videos of traffic stops etc where people jump out with handguns and rifles and open fire where even with the officer having immediate access to a firearm on their belt, they’re already at a disadvantage. Plus ECD’s aren’t always as effective as people would have you believe.

Graphic content warning, if needed.







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Thanks for the reply. I've seen enough of these videos of police put in such a situation for doing their jobs, its absolutely sickening to watch. I understand the use of lethal force in these situations but I've also watched countless videos of unarmed people filled with holes where the punishment doesn't match the crime. Is there a middle ground for LEO's when a firearm is suspected, not pointed at their faces, you just go to empty that clip if that's the case. But is there a stand down directive until an interaction is fully assessed?
Also, do you or your colleagues believe that a far stricter gun control should be enacted nationwide? If you can look up a driver's license and registration would it be invaluable to you and the public safety if a gun registration was as easily accessible?
 
MrMarcello said:
Can't be having things like mental health studies and the fact rates of suicide are much higher in homes with a gun present impacting policy and influencing the public.
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Yep. The ammosexual fetishizers love to spin their fantasmagorical yarns about ‘gun murder’ & ‘mass causality events,’ how a bad guy with a gun will he stopped with a good guy with a gun, yet they never discuss the staggering evidence of the entirety of gun violence or see the validity in keeping a gun out of someone’s hands who is looking to self harm. If ever specifically queried, they often go to the nonsensical argument of ‘well, that person could have as easily killed themselves with a knife or a noose or a car or jumped off of a building, they were going to kill themselves anyway.’
 
Skizzo said:
The reason a lot of things changed regarding policing and how things are approached for the CHP and other departments was due to the Newhall Incident here in California. I probably wouldn’t do it much justice by trying to explain it but there’s a lot of good resources on it if you’d like to look it up. Here’s one



Carrying only non-lethal on their person and having potentially armed people knowing that makes the job an uphill struggle and wouldn’t be successful in any way, I feel. If people didn’t have such easy access to firearms then I could see that approach being more successful, but there’s plenty of videos of traffic stops etc where people jump out with handguns and rifles and open fire where even with the officer having immediate access to a firearm on their belt, they’re already at a disadvantage. Plus ECD’s aren’t always as effective as people would have you believe.

Graphic content warning, if needed.







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Did the cop announce ‘taser, taser, taser’ in order for the other police officer not to be handling the suspect when tased so as not to receive the shock?
 
GiddyUp said:
Also, do you or your colleagues believe that a far stricter gun control should be enacted nationwide? If you can look up a driver's license and registration would it be invaluable to you and the public safety if a gun registration was as easily accessible?
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From what I know most line officers think it's dangerous to rely on that data because a gun could be present anyway and thinking there's no gun registered at an address could cause them to drop their guard.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
From what I know most line officers think it's dangerous to rely on that data because a gun could be present anyway and thinking there's no gun registered at an address could cause them to drop their guard.
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Kinda weird considering close to 100% of their interactions with the public when on duty doesn't involve guns.
 
GiddyUp said:
Kinda weird considering close to 100% of their interactions with the public when on duty doesn't involve guns.
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True. It's a strange argument I suppose, they could still approach every situation as if a gun could be present. There could be some worry about what the approach would be if they knew a gun was there, though, all things considered.
 
GiddyUp said:
Thanks for the reply. I've seen enough of these videos of police put in such a situation for doing their jobs, its absolutely sickening to watch. I understand the use of lethal force in these situations but I've also watched countless videos of unarmed people filled with holes where the punishment doesn't match the crime. Is there a middle ground for LEO's when a firearm is suspected, not pointed at their faces, you just go to empty that clip if that's the case. But is there a stand down directive until an interaction is fully assessed?
Also, do you or your colleagues believe that a far stricter gun control should be enacted nationwide? If you can look up a driver's license and registration would it be invaluable to you and the public safety if a gun registration was as easily accessible?
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I guess the fully assessed part comes down to whether you take into account if that’s possible in some split second decisions that are made.

We could certainly go back and forth and I’m sure we’d agree on the need for officers to be vigilant, while remaining professional and not overstepping what is necessary. Unfortunately, what we would agree on doesn’t mean that others would put that into action. It’s not a fallacy that a lot of officers also hate reading another story about something happening because now it’s another reason that we’ll be getting grief and increased hostility across the country when we had nothing to do with it, and probably view it as horrific and such as everyone else. Ive pulled my firearm on very few people, and shot no one...yet I still get the “I don’t want you to shoot me like you people do” kind of comments on a registration stop.

I do wish there was stricter gun laws, but I don’t see that happening any time soon unfortunately, so probably not much point going into it too much.
 
Skizzo said:
I guess the fully assessed part comes down to whether you take into account if that’s possible in some split second decisions that are made.

We could certainly go back and forth and I’m sure we’d agree on the need for officers to be vigilant, while remaining professional and not overstepping what is necessary. Unfortunately, what we would agree on doesn’t mean that others would put that into action. It’s not a fallacy that a lot of officers also hate reading another story about something happening because now it’s another reason that we’ll be getting grief and increased hostility across the country when we had nothing to do with it, and probably view it as horrific and such as everyone else. Ive pulled my firearm on very few people, and shot no one...yet I still get the “I don’t want you to shoot me like you people do” kind of comments on a registration stop.

I do wish there was stricter gun laws, but I don’t see that happening any time soon unfortunately, so probably not much point going into it too much.
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What continual training is required for someone 26 years in who is still working a beat? Could this officer have been covering for another one & hadn’t been in a patrol car in some time? Just seems incredibly odd to me.
 
calodo2003 said:
What continual training is required for someone 26 years in who is still working a beat? Could this officer have been covering for another one & hadn’t been in a patrol car in some time? Just seems incredibly odd to me.
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We have quarterly training days, plus whatever separate range days and training we do on our own. It’s highly unlikely that a non-patrol Officer would be out on the road. The last time that happened with us was during the protests and riots when everyone was required to be out on patrol, or on a detail somewhere at the Capitol etc.
 
Skizzo said:
We have quarterly training days, plus whatever separate range days and training we do on our own. It’s highly unlikely that a non-patrol Officer would be out on the road. The last time that happened with us was during the protests and riots when everyone was required to be out on patrol, or on a detail somewhere at the Capitol etc.
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Is there a mandatory time when an officer is required to get out of the patrol car?
 
Skizzo said:
I guess the fully assessed part comes down to whether you take into account if that’s possible in some split second decisions that are made.

We could certainly go back and forth and I’m sure we’d agree on the need for officers to be vigilant, while remaining professional and not overstepping what is necessary. Unfortunately, what we would agree on doesn’t mean that others would put that into action. It’s not a fallacy that a lot of officers also hate reading another story about something happening because now it’s another reason that we’ll be getting grief and increased hostility across the country when we had nothing to do with it, and probably view it as horrific and such as everyone else. Ive pulled my firearm on very few people, and shot no one...yet I still get the “I don’t want you to shoot me like you people do” kind of comments on a registration stop.

I do wish there was stricter gun laws, but I don’t see that happening any time soon unfortunately, so probably not much point going into it too much.
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It's fecking mess in this country with no end in sight. Thanks for your replies.
 
entropy said:
Why? Every time cops are to be held accountable he puts out some performative BS that results in nothing. He did the same last year as well when the bucs players started protesting. It's almost as if you've forgotten that blm protests began under his presidency.
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Obama told the nba players who were refusing to play that they should instead play and use their platform to influence changes. Of course what happened was the nba used arenas as voting sites in the election and all leverage to actually enforce meaningful change was squandered.

It's especially galling because Obama had the most powerful platform in the world and he used it to do absolutely nothing over 8 years and now spends his time putting out tweets raising awareness and acting as a strike breaker. It's hard to even think he's inept and clueless because he's clearly a smart person. So the conclusion has to be that this is his desired outcome. Not police murdering black people but continued control by powerful interests over the massive underclass in this country. He's made a career serving these interests and it has made him rich and powerful so a lifetime of his actions suggests that he sees the human misery these interests cause as a fair tradeoff to him advancing his own interests. Hard to see him as anything other than despicable.
 

26 year veteran who had been involved in another shooting cannot tell the difference. I don't give a feck how many times she yells 'taser'.
 
Adisa said:

26 year veteran who had been involved in another shooting cannot tell the difference. I don't give a feck how many times she yells 'taser'.
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Nobody's saying she cannot tell the difference when they're lined up next to each other.

So you're thinking that she went over there with the intention to shoot and possibly kill him with the gun, but started out by yelling taser multiple times to cover her tracks so she had a defence after she murdered him then? I'm genuinely asking, since I quoted you on the last page and didn't get a response.
 
Anustart89 said:
Nobody's saying she cannot tell the difference when they're lined up next to each other.

So you're thinking that she went over there with the intention to shoot and possibly kill him with the gun, but started out by yelling taser multiple times to cover her tracks so she had a defence after she murdered him then? I'm genuinely asking, since I quoted you on the last page and didn't get a response.
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Sorry, must have missed that.
How can an experienced police shout taser...taser for a few seconds and not know she's carrying a gun that's much heavier, feels different and is yellow as feck? She's even aiming the gun down her sight.
 
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Adisa said:

26 year veteran who had been involved in another shooting cannot tell the difference. I don't give a feck how many times she yells 'taser'.
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I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but it’s shameful to see a few replies there basically saying “but he had an open warrant so meh”.
 
Rado_N said:
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but it’s shameful to see a few replies there basically saying “but he had an open warrant so meh”.
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I was speaking to someone yesterday about the shooting, and his response was “I don’t get why they just don’t comply”
It’s madness
 
Rado_N said:
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but it’s shameful to see a few replies there basically saying “but he had an open warrant so meh”.
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If what I read is true the warrant was in place because he did not pay a fine, which he did not know he had to pay because the notice was sent to the wrong address! A tragedy compounded by incompetence further compounded by a blatant disregard for human life and respect.
 
Anustart89 said:
Nobody's saying she cannot tell the difference when they're lined up next to each other.

So you're thinking that she went over there with the intention to shoot and possibly kill him with the gun, but started out by yelling taser multiple times to cover her tracks so she had a defence after she murdered him then? I'm genuinely asking, since I quoted you on the last page and didn't get a response.
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A taser apparently weighs about 8 ounces. A fully loaded Glock 19 (15 rounds) weighs 30 ounces. I'm pretty sure anyone could tell the difference at any given moment.

The fault is on the cops for escalating the situation to a point where a 26 year veteran was so rattled she couldn't tell the difference between two drastically different tools with drastically different appearances, weight and feel.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
A taser apparently weighs about 8 ounces. A fully loaded Glock 19 (15 rounds) weighs 30 ounces. I'm pretty sure anyone could tell the difference at any given moment.

The fault is on the cops for escalating the situation to a point where a 26 year veteran was so rattled she couldn't tell the difference between two drastically different tools with drastically different appearances, weight and feel.
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Exactly. I don't see how three veteran cops couldn't easily handle that traffic stop instead ending up by fecking it up so badly that a kid is needlessly dead.
 
Cascarino said:
I was speaking to someone yesterday about the shooting, and his response was “I don’t get why they just don’t comply”
It’s madness
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I may be being unfair but that use of “they” seems pretty loaded. I’m sure the person in question would be saying something very different if it was a white kid from their neighbourhood.

WI_Red said:
If what I read is true the warrant was in place because he did not pay a fine, which he did not know he had to pay because the notice was sent to the wrong address! A tragedy compounded by incompetence further compounded by a blatant disregard for human life and respect.
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I saw something about a robbery but the tweets were showing Daily Mail and NY Post articles so I’ve no idea, but either way it’s 100% irrelevant distraction.
 
Rado_N said:
I may be being unfair but that use of “they” seems pretty loaded. I’m sure the person in question would be saying something very different if it was a white kid from their neighbourhood.
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I was thinking the same thing, but you did a much better job than I would have of framing it.

Rado_N said:
I saw something about a robbery but the tweets were showing Daily Mail and NY Post articles so I’ve no idea, but either way it’s 100% irrelevant distraction.
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Agreed. My point was that if what I saw was true he would not have even known he had a warrant, which would have been a factor in his confusion. Whatever the case no amount, or severity, of warrants is ever justification for pulling a trigger.
 
WI_Red said:
Agreed. My point was that if what I saw was true he would not have even known he had a warrant, which would have been a factor in his confusion. Whatever the case no amount, or severity, of warrants is ever justification for pulling a trigger.
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Yep absolutely. The right never tire of blaming victims though.
 
Cascarino said:
I was speaking to someone yesterday about the shooting, and his response was “I don’t get why they just don’t comply”
It’s madness
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It’s idiots like this who also think Ashli Babbitt is a hero & was murdered in cold blood by the LEO in the Capitol.
 
Can someone explain to me the difference between 1st degree and 2nd degree manslaughter?
Edit: Quick google search is telling me minimum of 1-3 years in prison. Feck me!
 
Rado_N said:
I may be being unfair but that use of “they” seems pretty loaded. I’m sure the person in question would be saying something very different if it was a white kid from their neighbourhood.
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Oh no doubt. I haven't got facebook but one of the other lads I work with has told me he posts a lot of shit in that vein.

calodo2003 said:
It’s idiots like this who also think Ashli Babbitt is a hero & was murdered in cold blood by the LEO in the Capitol.
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It wouldn't surprise me. I don't know him that well but despite being Welsh he has no interest in domestic policies, but when Trump came to power he became very interested in US politics and a big champion of him.
 
WI_Red said:
So far it is. Not sure what else they can charge her with, although it guess it comes down to if one thinks this was negligence or malice.
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Would seem more reasonable to me to have multiple charges so as not to pin all hopes on one charge that could not be determined through a technicality, etc.

But I’ve never even watched an episode of ‘Law & Order’ so I could be completely wrong here.
 
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