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Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I don’t think today’s statement means finishers or voiders can be more confident of getting their desired outcome. This thing unfortunately has a long way to go.
Its the fear man, its the fear. It is overzealous confidence, because facing the reality is just not an option.
I did that last week.
Noone can afford to not finish the season. 3B money is too much to handle they rather finish it and let next season suffer
@Megadrive Man remember that time you were on course to win the quadruple including ending 30 years of hurt and then ended up with nothing?
I don’t know about you but I’m getting nostalgic already.
I don’t know about you but I’m getting nostalgic already.
How can't you not see past the obvious PR nonsense. This is just saving face for the reality that will happen come June July when there is still no possibility for the season to be continue. Its a trend since this started, and I can't understand being a Liverpool supporter, its hard to see it, but man, it right there.
Indefinitely...what a tosser word to use. You think that if in 2 years no football happens that when it would finally open up, it would open with the 19/20 campaign!?
Edit: But I agree....this thing does have a loooooong way to go! That is for certain.
"We will win the quadruple" - Aston Villa 5-0 Liverpool
"We will go unbeaten" - Watford 3-0 Liverpool
"We will win the treble" - Chelsea 2-0 Liverpool
"We will win the double" - Atletico 4-2 Liverpool
"At least we will the Premier League" - Covid 19-18 Liverpool
stolen from Twitter
What other word did you expect considering no-one knows the timeline? Did you think they would say it has to be completed by X date?How can't you not see past the obvious PR nonsense. This is just saving face for the reality that will happen come June July when there is still no possibility for the season to be continue. Its a trend since this started, and I can't understand being a Liverpool supporter, its hard to see it, but man, it right there.
Indefinitely...what a tosser word to use. You think that if in 2 years no football happens that when it would finally open up, it would open with the 19/20 campaign!?
Edit: But I agree....this thing does have a loooooong way to go! That is for certain.
What I can’t understand is the obsession that next season is more important than this one - why?
The chances of next season running as normal is dependant on a huge number of unknowns yet it is vital to some that it doesn’t get truncated but no problem that this one gets voided!
People also saying that once other leagues void the PL will follow - why is that so certain? Those leagues will have the same issues as the PL if voided. And even IF they did there is no guarantee that the PL would follow as it would feel like it was being railroaded. Brexit means Brexit
30 April restart is just as unrealistic as 4 April was. Maybe restart mid June (Boris's probably fanciful 12 week schedule to turn things round) and then have to finish by 30 June because many contracts run out (and having to rejig the squads in the middle of a 'season' would make a mockery of the whole thing)?. Not a chance. I think the PL are positioning themselves to negotiate over penalties in contracts with broadcasters and sponsors. That can't be seen to be jacking the season in until it becomes impossible, rather than improbable, that it can be concluded. I'm prepared to be proved wrong, but I doubt we'll see this season concluded.
The question is why use the word at all.What other word did you expect considering no-one knows the timeline? Did you think they would say it has to be completed by X date?
What I can’t understand is the obsession that next season is more important than this one - why?
The chances of next season running as normal is dependant on a huge number of unknowns yet it is vital to some that it doesn’t get truncated but no problem that this one gets voided!
People also saying that once other leagues void the PL will follow - why is that so certain? Those leagues will have the same issues as the PL if voided. And even IF they did there is no guarantee that the PL would follow as it would feel like it was being railroaded. Brexit means Brexit
They certainly tried setting a date before...TWICE. So now the realize, as you say, it's futile setting a date for something they have no clue of when it will end.
But by using the word indefinitely, it's more to say we don't know when FOOTBALL will resume than it is to say when the current season will resume, because as I said, it makes no sense continuing a season 18months later. I can fully understand maybe May, June or even July, but that's clearly not going to be an option with the state of this virus.
I am of the opinion that next season, is not, the traditional next season, but rather quite a while off, the football calendar has been thrown in disarray and it will be a while before things go back to normal. So next season is only important in relation to how long this virus will suspend sporting activity. Then it becomes vital.
If by 18months or even 12 months a vaccine finally becomes available, do you honestly think they will resuming the 19/20 season?
Much of a further debate (at least from my side) depends on your opinion on this question.
Oh and on the last paragraph, well I'm with on that at least.What other word did you expect considering no-one knows the timeline? Did you think they would say it has to be completed by X date?
What I can’t understand is the obsession that next season is more important than this one - why?
The chances of next season running as normal is dependant on a huge number of unknowns yet it is vital to some that it doesn’t get truncated but no problem that this one gets voided!
People also saying that once other leagues void the PL will follow - why is that so certain? Those leagues will have the same issues as the PL if voided. And even IF they did there is no guarantee that the PL would follow as it would feel like it was being railroaded. Brexit means Brexit
That being said, it doesn't stop them from making the decision themselves...
The two options are finishing or voiding. Freezing table as is now is bollocks and I hope won’t ever be considered.
Voiding - endless legal wrangling, damaged integrity and if voted upon a split which will cause rifts very hard to heal.
Finishing - minimal legal issues, integrity intact but most likely logistical problems regarding scheduling and potential player registration problems.
Neither solution is perfect but give me logistical headache over integrity damage any day. The PL and indeed all leagues have guiding principles which we all take for granted. If we feck with those we risk long term irreparable damage.
Not necessarily, but I was looking confirmation of it or not so I could fire a few stinging lines at him.......and you believe a scouse ass ?!
Definitely. Voiding things now would be ridiculous, that has to be a last gasp measure.
They have to be seen to give it every single chance, for all reasons.
Agreed on your first paragraph.
Finishing however, becomes possible only in a short window, if in this year still. Anything that stretches into the new year just makes no sense.
I really don't get the legal and integrity argument. Once the shareholders have voted, it's their league? How integrity is lost after trying to wait for 6months and is clear that it's impossible to finish it, makes it less "honorable" is just senseless to me.
What, are all fans going to say "oh no, they voided it, I'm not going to respect it any more". People will still watch and be entertain as they have since the PL has been in existence. In fact, for me the thing that will make the PL lose its integrity faaaaar sooner than any voiding of a season would be the state of the refereeing and VAR in our league.
Will it lose respect in the mind of Liverpool fans??? Most definitely, as its the same league that is bend and corrupt and filled with SAFs and David Gills dirty scum hands etc. This will just be the icy on top.
But for the most part it the integrity will not be changed 1 bit.
As for the legal ramifications, that is not endless when you consider the fact that the PL will, as they have with this PR stunt, show that they have done everything possible to continue the season, even changing their rule Ffs about ending seasons on the 30th June to indefinitely, but in truth, there is just so long you can wait when the obvious thing to get football back to its feet is to start over.
Like I said, if they somehow find a cure this year still and somehow get it out in time to squeeze the remain matches in, then by all means, but I don't see that happening, and with that the chance of ever finishing this season goes with it.
integrity will go when a certain number of teams vote to void a season. The same teams signed up to play 38 games, not 29. When teams vote to void to save their PL status and other teams vote to finish to try to get European football, win title there will be a huge split.
You suggest a vote might happen after 6 months - next season will already have been due to start. I know you’re only using that as an example and it could be sooner or later. But the only way I see clubs reluctantly accepting a voided season would be if the pandemic is still wreaking havoc this time next year (ie season 20/21 didn’t even start). It’s possible of course but let’s hope this thing is under control before then.
If Liverpool and Utd were in opposite places in the league how would you feel?
Quite relaxed really.
We've won our fair share.
If the season isn't complete. Null and Void.
Simples.
If this had happened in March 1993?
I think people are still underestimating the scale of this. It looks to be three months until it even peaks, which means in six months time we could still be in the same situation we are now in terms of social distancing required. And that's a best case scenario, we could easily add another three months to that scenario if it doesn't go according to plan. We'll be lucky to be able to play games behind closed doors by September, unless we're willing to take risks with players, coaching staff and their families. We can pretty much rule out stadium crowds until a vaccine arrives in my opinion.
If next summer was free, that might be doable, since we could play til the height of summer 2021 and then start the following season just a bit later and after a shorter break. But Euro 2020/2021 rules that out. With the tournament starting in early June, the 2020-21 season needs to end by May as usual. Which means if we play the end of this season before we start of next season, next season will get broken into two around the Euros as well. The last 6 or 7 games will have to be played after the Euros, probably in August 2021.
And lest we forget, we have Qatar 22 in November 2022 as well. We were supposed to be starting seasons early, to give us a chance to take a break for the tournament in the middle of that one season. But if we've finished the previous season late, that becomes impossible. So we'll be finishing 2022-23 in July/August, meaning yet again the following season gets messed about with. We won't see a normal season til 2024-25.
If they can convince UEFA of dropping the Euros altogether then the whole thing could work, but I just don't see that happening. They'll also have to get rid of the league cup for the next three seasons. Maybe the contracts with sponsors and TV companies do make it truly impossible to cancel this season, but for supporters, once you reach August its becomes preferable to simply start a new season as soon as possible than try and play the final quarter of last season.
Imagine the riots on Mersyside should they not win the title this year
Hell hath no fury like a scouser scorned.
If my auntie was my uncle.... Oh, you know how this goes.
But that is why a majority vote exists, and when it is decided, it should be respected.
There is not 1 club that will vote selflessly, all are in it for themselves and to do what is right for their club.
If that makes you think less of them, then fine, but it doesn't for me. So even if Manchester United voted to continue the season, because its in their best interests (assumption), then I can't be mad at them for choosing that option (as much as I, as a fan, would want the oppose perhaps. I'm still conflicted.); anymore than I can be mad at Spurs wanting to void it cause it suits them more. Even Liverpool voting to continue the season won't be to protect the "integrity" of the league (as much as many a Liverpool poster (I would think yourself included) here seems to herald that as the main or greatest reason), it will be just as selfish a motive as any, for them to have their long awaited PL trophy, and again, I can't hold them against that. In the end, the vote that ultimately comes, is one that will have to be accepted and respected.
Now, coming to the voiding or finishing, again. Exactly, next season is suppose to start in August, but that is CLEARLY not going to be possible. The delay to start the new season will not be because they would like to try finish the current, imo, it would be because it will still not be possible for sports to start up again. BUT, that wouldn't stop them from using it as though the reason is because they want to try finish the current.
You kind of answered my earlier question, but I just want clarity, to be sure.
I said: If by 18months or even 12 months a vaccine finally becomes available, do you honestly think they will resuming the 19/20 season?
To which you said, there are 2 options.
In saying that, you accept that voiding is a possibility, but that it would just be harder, not impossible, but harder. I can get on that bandwagon any day.
Nothing since this virus hit has made anything easier, football or otherwise. Everything going forward will continue to get harder and harder as time goes on, the economic effects worldwide will make a lot of things harder, but it does make us realize one thing, that some times you have to accept the reality for what it is, as hard as it is and just move on. That is where I see this decision heading, an accepting of the reality and moving on, putting our hands up and saying "shite happens".
Some will hurt more than others obviously (PL stands to lose more money than any of the other top 5 leagues, lower leagues suffer more than PL, Liverpool suffer harder than 19 others, etc). All that being said, I too hope this thing reaches its conclusion sooner rather than later, but for no spiteful reason at all, I just don't see it been sooner.
Now, to you question at the end.
I would feel exactly as you feel right now, well, as far as I am able to relate, because I haven't experienced the feeling of going 30 years without PL success; but if this past 5 years have taught me anything, having been terrible to endure, I can honestly say that if we were in your position, I would be totally gutted if the season was voided, totally. It would feel worse than Moyes, LVG and Jose put together maybe (probably not, its been super shite).
But again, all I can do is accept the reality that has been dished out and push on? What else is there. Yes I can talk of legal ramifications and integrity, and all that, but ultimately its more just hoping life doesn't serve me the "shite happens" refrain and kick me in the balls.
Hope that answers your question adequately.
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This has been my trumpet ever since this began. There is nooo way we will be ready for next season to start on time, so what would make us think trying to finish this season would be possible.
I don't even want to wrap my head around the long domino effect this is going to have on the footballing calendar for years to come. Things may only starting coming right in 2 years from now, and even then it will be with a massive chunk of stuff missed or cancelled along the way.
Except the problem is that if you start messing with ending this season late, say in October, then you are looking to squeeze in more games next season in a short time period. The idea that "we just finish this season and abandon next year" is utter drivel. Teams will literally go bankrupt by the dozen. It makes no sense at all to kill next season just to finish this one. Yes there are ramifications, and that is what the FA are prepping for, how they deal with sky/bt this year if they have to void it.
I now cannot see us restarting football before end of June, which even if that is possible would mean that there would be all sorts of issues, and literally no transfer market, as we would need to start in September really, with the Euros next year. Starting football in June just seems like a pipe dream tbh, its more likely we get to August before football is possible, in which case they have choice of playing 8 weeks of football to finish this season and killing 2020-2021, or shortening next season. Both of those things will end really, really badly, it will decimate the lower leagues.
If City (or United) were leading in the same way as Liverpool I doubt anyone would bat an eyelid if the league was voided. It would just be a case of "unlucky lads" and on to next year.
I do...for some people their auntie is now their uncle.
At least you are being honest and can appreciate how and why LFC fans feel the way we do. I do think Utd would vote to finish the season - Ole, the players and the board will want CL football. I would be amazed if they voted to void. I think it could be a very tight vote especially if its the normal 14 club rule.
I just watched the Debate on Sky Sports with Carra and Nev. They both spoke very sensibly about the whole situation, its impact on football and wider society. Neville especially made a lot of excellent and at times quite strong political points which at one stage caused Kelly Cates to intervene and stand up for Spaffer Johnson. They both agreed that the season should finish and posited various implications and work arounds for next season. Of course the bottom line is no-one knows how it will play out. One idea they said was that when football returns, in order to cram the matches in to minimise disruption to the following season, there could be a "Festival of Football". Carragher was very keen to not play down the importance of football to communities and that it's return would be a signal to a large section of the country that the long road to recovery has begun. They also spent a lot of time talking about the financial impact to the lower leagues and how top level football should help out.
Guys let's use logic now.
1. The virus is doing damage around the globe.
2. Nobody knows anything about the virus, = meaning no cure or vaccine has been made.
3. The world has come to a stop in many ways.
4. What is football in all this?
Now, using basic knowledge, we are here because of a virus. A virus which spreads fast enough and has no cure or vaccine yet.
So we use it going from back, if no cure or vaccine is found then everything your seeing or hearing now will continue in one way or another. How, you may ask, it takes 1 human again for us to go back where we were. Even Wuhan which has had no infection today, one person can be infected again and the cycle continues.
So let's assume, league resumes in June 2020. Britain is able to keep its citizens free of the virus then on 33 match week, again Arteta contracts the virus what will happen? Arsenal goes to isolation for 2 weeks again.
You suspend the league again?
Assumptions 2.
Italy and Germany are ravaged by the virus till September, other small European countries with teams in Champions League are still hit with the virus what will UEFA/FIFA do? We assume in that period of time England is free of the virus? Will the Premier league be in play while Champions League is not going on?
As a team your football calendar must be known in advance.
Even Euro was postponed by 1 year. So its known in a year's time euro will be held.
Ole needs to know I play City weekend then Juve mid week Arsenal weekend then Juve midweek.
So is it logical to play league matches then postpone Champions league matches indefinitely? What are the rewards of finishing that league season if the previous champions league is suspended indefinitely? Or rather why should Man United play for top four while the previous champions league season is still on hold? What will be the reward of the top four finish? When will United use their top 4 position to play in the champions league if indeed its suspended indefinitely.
Put Europa league in there, position 6&7 where will you take them, put champions league qualifying rounds there which happens in July will teams from lower seeded countries manage to play in champions league qualifiers to kick start 2020 2021 champions league season?
Then REMEMBER in all this NO single player is supposed to get the Covid-19 again in all the league, or champions league teams or Europa teams.
Solution.
A vaccine or a cure will make things easier because now if you get the virus you isolate. How many teams and times will a team isolate during a 6 month period? But with a cure you contract, you take medication we proceed.
Conclusion.
Let nobody cheat you that this season will go on if a vaccine or cure is not found because the virus will reoccur again. Just 1 player we isolate again. 1 staff we isolate again.
Prepare for a long duration without football. Even life won't be same again without a cure or vaccine because if it reoccurs again, same same exponential growth starts again.
1. The virus is doing damage around the globe.
2. Nobody knows anything about the virus, = meaning no cure or vaccine has been made.
3. The world has come to a stop in many ways.
4. What is football in all this?
Now, using basic knowledge, we are here because of a virus. A virus which spreads fast enough and has no cure or vaccine yet.
So we use it going from back, if no cure or vaccine is found then everything your seeing or hearing now will continue in one way or another. How, you may ask, it takes 1 human again for us to go back where we were. Even Wuhan which has had no infection today, one person can be infected again and the cycle continues.
So let's assume, league resumes in June 2020. Britain is able to keep its citizens free of the virus then on 33 match week, again Arteta contracts the virus what will happen? Arsenal goes to isolation for 2 weeks again.
You suspend the league again?
Assumptions 2.
Italy and Germany are ravaged by the virus till September, other small European countries with teams in Champions League are still hit with the virus what will UEFA/FIFA do? We assume in that period of time England is free of the virus? Will the Premier league be in play while Champions League is not going on?
As a team your football calendar must be known in advance.
Even Euro was postponed by 1 year. So its known in a year's time euro will be held.
Ole needs to know I play City weekend then Juve mid week Arsenal weekend then Juve midweek.
So is it logical to play league matches then postpone Champions league matches indefinitely? What are the rewards of finishing that league season if the previous champions league is suspended indefinitely? Or rather why should Man United play for top four while the previous champions league season is still on hold? What will be the reward of the top four finish? When will United use their top 4 position to play in the champions league if indeed its suspended indefinitely.
Put Europa league in there, position 6&7 where will you take them, put champions league qualifying rounds there which happens in July will teams from lower seeded countries manage to play in champions league qualifiers to kick start 2020 2021 champions league season?
Then REMEMBER in all this NO single player is supposed to get the Covid-19 again in all the league, or champions league teams or Europa teams.
Solution.
A vaccine or a cure will make things easier because now if you get the virus you isolate. How many teams and times will a team isolate during a 6 month period? But with a cure you contract, you take medication we proceed.
Conclusion.
Let nobody cheat you that this season will go on if a vaccine or cure is not found because the virus will reoccur again. Just 1 player we isolate again. 1 staff we isolate again.
Prepare for a long duration without football. Even life won't be same again without a cure or vaccine because if it reoccurs again, same same exponential growth starts again.
I'm assuming by his comments he's a Liverpool fan.
I think you don't grasp this fully. Everyone wants to finish the season and it was obvious the FA would say this at the moment. It may get to a point though that it simply isn't possible to do for a variety of different reasons.
Nothing new has happened today. They said what was expected so don't get your hopes up. Depending on what happens worldwide the league could still be voided as they will continue to revisit this as things develop.
Do people seriously think liverpool supporters won't turn up outside the ground in their thousands to add their vocal support when they play ? They don't care about spreading the virus or how many die so long as they can claim "I was there when we won the Premier League Title in 2020".
You realise that Utd will lose out on two routes into the CL of the season is voided? I think it’s more likely we will finish at least 5th and we also have the Europa League as an option.
Honestly, we don’t care about Liverpool and what happens to them and whether they are champions or not. obviously if it’s voided, it will be hilarious, and I’ll have a good laugh for approximately 45 seconds and then start dealing with the realities of life.
I’m far more interested in Utd. However, unlike the vast majority of ‘pool fans in here, I’m far more concerned about what’s happening outside of football.
if football could start next month, then everyone would be on board for finishing the season. But if it’s past June before it resumes, it doesn’t makes sense.
love Liverpool fans grasping at the integrity of the league argument