Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

TheReligion said:
Well not it's not like that really as people pay taxes based on their relative earnings. Anyway we digress. We are talking about sports teams. You can't just make a decision to suit Liverpool and not have thought for other clubs in the same position, and those who aren't. It's not as simple as saying reward those who are achieving and forget everything else.

All the league can do is look at the fairest way to treat clubs equally. It may be they don't award titles, promotion, relegation (as in Holland) but lift prize money and pay out based on league positions to try and reward clubs that way. I don't know and neither does anyone here but just coming on to bang the drum that Liverpool should be gifted the title cause they are twenty odd points ahead and haven't won in for so long is ridiculous.
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Shouldn't happen at all. I've seen people talk about discrimination in here, and it shows exactly what's wrong with your reasoning. People (and clubs) should only be treated equally if they are in equal positions / equal circumstances - if that's not the case, you'll never be able to prove discrimination. Clubs are not in the same positions now, it would be more of a farce to treat the first and last team exactly the same than to differentiate between them.

Anyway, you have your opinion, which imo is clearly wrong as I just explained. I'm gonna leave it there because nothing productive will come out of this discussion.
 
TheReligion said:
I don't think they'll void it but I do think it will create too much of a problem to start rewarding and punishing clubs. The table and placings stand, prize money given out accordingly including euro spots, but no Champions or promotions or relegation.

Not perfect but it treats everyone the same and is what the Dutch are going for.
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Brexit means Brexit! You would make a great political campaigner because you have hammered home that core message for 200 odd pages! :lol:

But the situation at the top of the Dutch league is about as far removed from the top of the PL as possible.
 
RobinLFC said:
Shouldn't happen at all. I've seen people talk about discrimination in here, and it shows exactly what's wrong with your reasoning. People (and clubs) should only be treated equally if they are in equal positions / equal circumstances - if that's not the case, you'll never be able to prove discrimination. Clubs are not in the same positions now, it would be more of a farce to treat the first and last team exactly the same than to differentiate between them.

Anyway, you have your opinion, which imo is clearly wrong as I just explained. I'm gonna leave it there because nothing productive will come out of this discussion.
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You make it difficult as I don't know your opinion. I'm all for people coming to discuss possible solutions and reasoning but you have to have an opinion and be able to explain why you have it to come and pick apart others.

There will be legal issues whatever happens however you'd find it hard to complain as per the Holland model in comparison to the league gifting title medals out, promotions and relegation when they haven't been earned.
 
acnumber9 said:
Is it corporate manslaughter to send somebody to work in Tesco? He may be right that the season should be cancelled but hyperbole helps nobody.
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Rooney said last month if he ended up with it and took it home to his family he would never forgive the FA
 
Finn MacCool said:
Brexit means Brexit! You would make a great political campaigner because you have hammered home that core message for 200 odd pages! :lol:

But the situation at the top of the Dutch league is about as far removed from the top of the PL as possible.
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It's not though. The point thing doesn't matter. Neither of you have won the league. The same way none of the teams at the bottom have been relegated. You can't award and punish based on what you think will happen.
 
TheReligion said:
You make it difficult as I don't know your opinion. I'm all for people coming to discuss possible solutions and reasoning but you have to have an opinion and be able to explain why you have it to come and pick apart others.

There will be legal issues whatever happens however you'd find it hard to complain as per the Holland model in comparison to the league gifting title medals out, promotions and relegation when they haven't been earned.
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So who exactly would complain, never mind take legal action, if they awarded the title to a side that's 25 points clear of their respective league ?
 
redman5 said:
So who exactly would complain, never mind take legal action, if they awarded the title to a side that's 25 points clear of their respective league ?
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Probably the other teams that don't get that kind of treatment throughout the football leagues? The ones who don't get promoted? The teams that miss out on CL football because one team is being awarded an extra 6 points but they are being left? That's not even mentioning the bottom ends of each division.

It's a minefield. If you remove your Liverpool bias you'll see it.
 
I’m glad the scousers are all delusional in here still, going to make it all the sweeter when it inevitably goes tits up again.
 
redman5 said:
How could he prove he'd gotten it by playing football ? Especially considering all the testing & precautions that'll take place before the game took place.
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Because what else will he be doing?

Anyway I assume you've missed the news. Leagues are being cancelled. Belgium, Holland and now France. German infection rate has gone to 1:0 and UEFA want a decision ASAP with everyone else. FIFA chief medical officer says they don't want any football until next year/season.

It all looks like this is over. It's just a case of how to finalise it.
 
TheReligion said:
Probably the other teams that don't get that kind of treatment throughout the football leagues? The ones who don't get promoted? The teams that miss out on CL football because one team is being awarded an extra 6 points but they are being left? That's not even mentioning the bottom ends of each division.

It's a minefield. If you remove your Liverpool bias you'll see it.
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You're comparing apples to oranges there because there is no comparison relating to Liverpool's situation & those aiming for promotion, fighting relegation, or hoping for European places. Liverpool being crowned champions doesn't affect their plight one little bit. Even removing my Liverpool bias I still can't see anyone standing up in court saying it's unfair that LFC get the title whilst we don't get the chance to ............. (see any of the above). That's not to say they can't fight it, but I don't see any way Liverpool FC will form a part of their argument.
 
Pexbo said:
I’m glad the scousers are all delusional in here still, going to make it all the sweeter when it inevitably goes tits up again.
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I'm not sure why they can't get it. From day one they ruled out it being cancelled and now it looks odds on this will happen. They need to accept there's a very strong possibility they won't win anything.
 
redman5 said:
You're comparing apples to oranges there because there is no comparison relating to Liverpool's situation & those aiming for promotion, fighting relegation, or hoping for European places. Liverpool being crowned champions doesn't affect their plight one little bit. Even removing my Liverpool bias I still can't see anyone standing up in court saying it's unfair that LFC get the title whilst we don't get the chance to ............. (see any of the above). That's not to say they can't fight it, but I don't see any way Liverpool FC will form a part of their argument.
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Eh? Of course they will. It sets a precedence. Leeds will want to be champions and come up. This will be mirrored with ups and downs throughout the league.

If you really think everyone is going to just say "nah we'll leave it" and let Liverpool be given the league without looking to gain themselves you're mistaken. Surely that's obvious?
 
TheReligion said:
Eh? Of course they will. It sets a precedence. Leeds will want to be champions and come up. This will be mirrored with ups and downs throughout the league.

If you really think everyone is going to just say "nah we'll leave it" and let Liverpool be given the league without looking to gain themselves you're mistaken. Surely that's obvious?
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So what happens if Leeds threaten legal action using Liverpool as an example. The Premier League say, "OK then, we'll not award any titles but our original decision will still stand". How would that benefit Leeds ? They'll still not get the promotion they want.
 
TheReligion said:
It's not though. The point thing doesn't matter. Neither of you have won the league. The same way none of the teams at the bottom have been relegated. You can't award and punish based on what you think will happen.
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Exactly that's why it will be current placings final or at a push PPG - both of which reflect how teams have performed so far and are in line with UEFA's sporting merit. I can't be 100% about this but I think someone possibly in this thread said the dutch weren't awarding the league because it was so close not because all games hadn't been completed. that's why France are looking at 3 scenarios none of which are voiding.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Here is the thing; nobody achieved anything so far. In 9 games everything can change. You realise that Villa for example can still catch Champions league spot? Yeah, it sounds crazy and 99.99 % wouldn't happen but it is something what mathematically can still happen.
So screw that what is fair or not. Giving medals to teams based on odds and feeling what would happen in next 9 games is not the way how any sport should work.

If season will not be finished, FA must find the way to decide who goes in Europe next year but to crown champions in any league and relegate teams should not be an option. Because....season is not finished and by that, is not legit.
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Bingo!

A salient point that some seem to be missing, until the season is actually finished or a position is mathematically secure then no team has achieved anything.

Liverpool have secured a CL spot though to be fair, so they should definitely be awarded a CL spot for next season whatever happens.
 
stevoc said:
Bingo!

A salient point that some seem to be missing, until the season is actually finished or a position is mathematically secure then no team has achieved anything.

Liverpool have secured a CL spot though to be fair, so they should definitely be awarded a CL spot for next season whatever happens.
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I doubt that there will be any European football next season, regardless of what UEFA want to happen.
 
RobinLFC said:
Shouldn't happen at all. I've seen people talk about discrimination in here, and it shows exactly what's wrong with your reasoning. People (and clubs) should only be treated equally if they are in equal positions / equal circumstances - if that's not the case, you'll never be able to prove discrimination. Clubs are not in the same positions now, it would be more of a farce to treat the first and last team exactly the same than to differentiate between them.

Anyway, you have your opinion, which imo is clearly wrong as I just explained. I'm gonna leave it there because nothing productive will come out of this discussion.
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stevoc said:
Bingo!

A salient point that some seem to be missing, until the season is actually finished or a position is mathematically secure then no team has achieved anything.

Liverpool have secured a CL spot though to be fair, so they should definitely be awarded a CL spot for next season whatever happens.
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That's fair.
 
redman5 said:
So what happens if Leeds threaten legal action using Liverpool as an example. The Premier League say, "OK then, we'll not award any titles but our original decision will still stand". How would that benefit Leeds ? They'll still not get the promotion they want.
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There's not a single scenario where every single team comes away from this happy if they have to make alternative plans to end the season.

Some teams (and fans) are going to be furious. But what can you do? Nobody wanted this virus. It's just bad luck for Liverpool and Leeds/Westbrom if we follow the Dutch and French.

I just can't see the league being completed. Some player or coach is going to become infected again and then what happens. Do we all wait again?
 
Always worth pointing out that Liverpool being 'awarded' the league is still far superior to the nightmare I had been envisaging since about October.

Null and void even being possible is superb.
 
Utd heap said:
Always worth pointing out that Liverpool being 'awarded' the league is still far superior to the nightmare I had been envisaging since about October.

Null and void even being possible is superb.
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Yep worst case for you now is we get a title with an asterisk.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
There's not a single scenario where every single team comes away from this happy if they have to make alternative plans to end the season.

Some teams (and fans) are going to be furious. But what can you do? Nobody wanted this virus. It's just bad luck for Liverpool and Leeds/Westbrom if we follow the Dutch and French.

I just can't see the league being completed. Some player or coach is going to become infected again and then what happens. Do we all wait again?
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So why the rush to cancel the season then ? It's as if some people think that come August/September we'll be living in a virus-free world again & everything will be hunky-dory. If it's not safe & appropriate to play now - even behind closed doors - then what will a few months difference make ? There's still not going to be a vaccine available, & people will still be dying, so there's always going to be a risk. I said a couple of weeks ago on here if things are that serious that the league can't be completed then it should be mothballed & only played out when it's OK to do so. This would remove any talk of fairness, litigation, etc.
 
Offside said:
I said this a few weeks ago but I do think there is the slight possibility we could be incredibly fortunate from all this. I think City’s CL ban for next season may be upheld to make an example of them even if there is an appeal later down the line. I think they could abandon the league with no Champions and give the current top 4 (minus City) the 4 CL spots.
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I think the chances of Utd getting CL is slim to zero. No way do City have there ban upheld this season with the way everything is atm.
 
Dave Smith said:
I think the chances of Utd getting CL is slim to zero. No way do City have there ban upheld this season with the way everything is atm.
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If this seasons EL is cancelled then there will be a spot open for next seasons CL. If UEFA award that spot to the team with the highest co-efficient then Utd will be in next season's CL.
 
redman5 said:
So why the rush to cancel the season then ? It's as if some people think that come August/September we'll be living in a virus-free world again & everything will be hunky-dory. If it's not safe & appropriate to play now - even behind closed doors - then what will a few months difference make ? There's still not going to be a vaccine available, & people will still be dying, so there's always going to be a risk. I said a couple of weeks ago on here if things are that serious that the league can't be completed then it should be mothballed & only played out when it's OK to do so. This would remove any talk of fairness, litigation, etc.
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Because there is a lot more money involved for the preparation of the following season. The work on it has to start now
 
redman5 said:
The asterisk of course would highlight the fact of how we were denied the chance of smashing City's record of 100 points in one season.
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True but I've a feeling the asterisk will mean something different to opposition fans :wenger:
 
stevoc said:
Bingo!

A salient point that some seem to be missing, until the season is actually finished or a position is mathematically secure then no team has achieved anything.

Liverpool have secured a CL spot though to be fair, so they should definitely be awarded a CL spot for next season whatever happens.
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Isn't that the purposes of the discussions though? If you hold to the perspective that a season cannot finish until all 38 games have been played, then the season has to be voided if the remaining games cannot be played and therefore no-one has won. HOWEVER, if you take the perspective that in extraordinary times like these what constitutes a completed season is under debate, then different options become available. Not just for this season, but for the next ones too (given next season has a high probability of being disrupted). Liverpool's current position shouldn't influence the decision-making as the rules need to apply if this happens next season with one team 3 points ahead, but if it's decided that the competition can be declared complete without all matches being played, then the decision is purely how you decide what the finishing positions are.
 
redman5 said:
So why the rush to cancel the season then ? It's as if some people think that come August/September we'll be living in a virus-free world again & everything will be hunky-dory. If it's not safe & appropriate to play now - even behind closed doors - then what will a few months difference make ? There's still not going to be a vaccine available, & people will still be dying, so there's always going to be a risk. I said a couple of weeks ago on here if things are that serious that the league can't be completed then it should be mothballed & only played out when it's OK to do so. This would remove any talk of fairness, litigation, etc.
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Because all the experts are saying that the virus should be more easily contained come August / September. It won't have totally gone but it won't have the same grip of the world it has currently. Obviously they can't know this 100% but there seems to be a consensus.

The football leagues all have to start and end roughly at the same time usually due to European football. So there has to be a cut off date for completion.

Next season will probably start a few weeks later than origin planned but it will start this year not next. No way are they shifting a 38 game season for just 9 games. 38 games pays more than 9. They won't jeapordise next season not finishing roughly on time with the Euros being played.
 
acnumber9 said:
Is it corporate manslaughter to send somebody to work in Tesco? He may be right that the season should be cancelled but hyperbole helps nobody.
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Tesco is in essential foods. Sport is not essential to be fair. And in Tesco they aren't kicking and spitting around like footballers would.
 
Finn MacCool said:
If this seasons EL is cancelled then there will be a spot open for next seasons CL. If UEFA award that spot to the team with the highest co-efficient then Utd will be in next season's CL.
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I am not so sure as I am not convinced UEFA's current ploy of having teams qualify based on 2019/20 performance is going to work. The reason I say this is twofold:

1) If more countries ban football/sport until September, when exactly are they going to hold the qualifiers?

2) If this seasons CL/EL get cancelled (which looks like it will) then what are they going to do with the teams still in the comps that are not currently going to qualify via the current tables?

This is also before we get to when there can actually be any CL/EL football owing to travel restrictions. The only way I see it working next year is if they either regionalise the group stage or just go straight knockout from Feb/March 2021.
 
Pace Abuser said:
I really think with public opinion the way it is, no club in England is going to challenge things or make demands. The vast majority of this country don't care about football and even actively hate it. The public are looking for reasons to hate football and not even the darling Liverpool fan push that back. As proven by the furlough situation recently.

The government and FA will decide.
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agreed. Even tone deaf Liverpool football club aren’t going to sue the league, are they?!
 
TheReligion said:
Wishful thinking I feel. What is clear, at the moment, is we are moving to seasons being cancelled. Then it will be decided how they will be finished. If you're lucky you might get given the title but you are just as likely to be awarded top spot without the C as evidenced in Holland. All options well and firmly on the table. Squeaky bum time it seems!





And here's another thing I've noted here. Many of you can't distinguish the difference between treating every club fairly (the same) and the different affect that decision has on each individual club.

People will win and others will lose. That's the case whatever you decide. The only thing that can be done is ensure everyone is treated the same as that prevents criticism and the famous lawsuits you all bang on about.




And here we go. Definitely a huge shift today from everyone towards cancelling this season. With that in mind nothing is certain as to how this is officially decided.
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Please tell me how ending the season with the tables as they stand or finishing the season on a points per game basis is anything other than "treating every club fairly (the same)". It's literally the exact same thing.
 
Furious George said:
Why not?

Can I go shoplifting super noodles with the way everything is atm?
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Because their appeal has not been heard. If their appeal wins, then banning them straight up is like executing a prisoner only to discover later they were innocent.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Because all the experts are saying that the virus should be more easily contained come August / September. It won't have totally gone but it won't have the same grip of the world it has currently. Obviously they can't know this 100% but there seems to be a consensus.

The football leagues all have to start and end roughly at the same time usually due to European football. So there has to be a cut off date for completion.

Next season will probably start a few weeks later than origin planned but it will start this year not next. No way are they shifting a 38 game season for just 9 games. 38 games pays more than 9. They won't jeapordise next season not finishing roughly on time with the Euros being played.
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In that case then couldn't they complete this season in September/October & shelve the cup competitions to ensure there's no fixture congestion ?
 
Dave Smith said:
I am not so sure as I am not convinced UEFA's current ploy of having teams qualify based on 2019/20 performance is going to work. The reason I say this is twofold:

1) If more countries ban football/sport until September, when exactly are they going to hold the qualifiers?

2) If this seasons CL/EL get cancelled (which looks like it will) then what are they going to do with the teams still in the comps that are not currently going to qualify via the current tables?

This is also before we get to when there can actually be any CL/EL football owing to travel restrictions. The only way I see it working next year is if they either regionalise the group stage or just go straight knockout from Feb/March 2021.
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Even though there are so many variables between now and then I think straight knockout from early next year looks the most likely right now.
 
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