David Moyes | West Ham in talks with him for managerial job

Snow said:
Every single player and manager that has spent a decent time at top level (I'm counting Championship as top level) knows more about football than probably everyone in this or any other forum. Why does that automatically command respect?
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Oddly enough I remember a poster before posted a video of some Ex-Italian professional working as pundit talking about Fellaini, I disagreed and explained why and the poster retorted 'yeah but _____ (forgot which player it was) was a Professional and he knows more therefore he's right'.

Like not necessarily? I'd be the first to admit his knowledge of AC Milan, Serie A, Italian National Team in the 90s blows me out the water and his general knowledge of football all together for that matter but this topic was a subjective thing about a particular player in a team I've watched week in week out for multiple years whereas this pundit has likely only seen him a handful of times. Him being a Professional especially in a different league in a different decade doesn't make his opinion fact, far from it.

Same general idea here, bewilderingly Professionals can indeed be wrong. Trust me I wouldn't know how to be a top-level football manager with the ins-and-outs of the role despite my glittering FM record but the fact remains these people do make mistakes and can and should he critised for it. David Moyes has failed miserably in his last three jobs and surprisingly fans can point out particular astute analysis as to why - doesn't mean if they were in the role they'd do better it just means they know the mistakes he made. People aren't claiming they are a better football manager (well most aren't...) just that they can point out the often glaring mistakes.
 
Snow said:
Every single player and manager that has spent a decent time at top level (I'm counting Championship as top level) knows more about football than probably everyone in this or any other forum. Why does that automatically command respect?
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I don't know how the culture is at Iceland, but I'm taught to be humble and respect everyone I meet until they give me reasons to do otherwise. We're judging Moyes on his failure during his time here as a football manager, yet the ones making fun of him are people who haven't achieved anything near what he's achieved during his career as a manager. Moyes is classy and doesn't hold grudges. Some people here are making me sick.

Slightly unrelated; God I'd love to see @Red_toad 's face who makes fun of Fellaini's appearance. I dare you to show your face in the I want your pics thread. Let's see how beautiful you are
 
Macern said:
I don't know how the culture is at Iceland, but I'm taught to be humble and respect everyone I meet until they give me reasons to do otherwise. We're judging Moyes on his failure during his time here as a football manager, yet the ones making fun of him are people who haven't achieved anything near what he's achieved during his career as a manager. Moyes is classy and doesn't hold grudges. Some people here are making me sick.

Slightly unrelated; God I'd love to see @Red_toad 's face who makes fun of Fellaini's appearance. I dare you to show your face in the I want your pics thread. Let's see how beautiful you are
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Eh?

Unless you're talking about my post where he's been smacked in the face with a ball. I've never made any comment on how he looks. As I really don't care.
 
Macern said:
He signed Fellaini who has been a valuable squad player for both of the managers we've had since him. He also signed Mata who has been very valuable. Woodward was new as well, people seem to forget that.

Anyway he did his best and I feel sorry for people who feel the need to mock him. Moyes didn't hold grudges or anything. You're inferior
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Signed Fellaini for £4m more than he could have done if he hadn't dithered on the transfer and let the buyout clause expire?
Signed Mata in sheer desperation having failed to sign anyone else and by that point sitting in the middle of the table?

Ordinarily noone would care, he'd just be another failed Premier League manager. But the grudge he does hold against us that saw him drag the club's name through the dirt with his media mates, that's what makes us dislike him.
 
Macern said:
I don't know how the culture is at Iceland, but I'm taught to be humble and respect everyone I meet until they give me reasons to do otherwise. We're judging Moyes on his failure during his time here as a football manager, yet the ones making fun of him are people who haven't achieved anything near what he's achieved during his career as a manager. Moyes is classy and doesn't hold grudges. Some people here are making me sick.
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Using this type of logic though, all of us should never criticize a single player or manager ever.

It's a fallacy.

And critiquing Moyes for his managerial skills is hardly disrespect. No one's calling him a horrible human being or the like.
 
Macern said:
I don't know how the culture is at Iceland, but I'm taught to be humble and respect everyone I meet until they give me reasons to do otherwise. We're judging Moyes on his failure during his time here as a football manager, yet the ones making fun of him are people who haven't achieved anything near what he's achieved during his career as a manager. Moyes is classy and doesn't hold grudges. Some people here are making me sick.

Slightly unrelated; God I'd love to see @Red_toad 's face who makes fun of Fellaini's appearance. I dare you to show your face in the I want your pics thread. Let's see how beautiful you are
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:lol: at bolded, that's pure gold.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that those who make fun of Moyes are automatically less successful than him? Moyes is an utter failure as a football manager. I'm fairly sure there are those who make fun of him and are not utter failures at what they do.
 
11101 said:
Signed Fellaini for £4m more than he could have done if he hadn't dithered on the transfer and let the buyout clause expire?
Signed Mata in sheer desperation having failed to sign anyone else and by that point sitting in the middle of the table?
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Not to defend Moyes, but Fellaini he wanted from the moment he got the job, whether we bought Fabregas/Kroos or whoever. That particular signing was more on the Chief Executive than Moyes. Woodward anticipated Everton would let us tickle their belly and that wasnt the case.

As far as Mata goes, we were desperate at that point, but if a player like him is available, the decision was spot on to sign him. It was a wise investment for when we finally sacked the clueless idiot.
 
Macern said:
I don't know how the culture is at Iceland, but I'm taught to be humble and respect everyone I meet until they give me reasons to do otherwise. We're judging Moyes on his failure during his time here as a football manager, yet the ones making fun of him are people who haven't achieved anything near what he's achieved during his career as a manager. Moyes is classy and doesn't hold grudges. Some people here are making me sick.

Slightly unrelated; God I'd love to see @Red_toad 's face who makes fun of Fellaini's appearance. I dare you to show your face in the I want your pics thread. Let's see how beautiful you are
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Once again him making it as a top-level manager doesn't automatically mean he's infallable and above criticism. A film critic can't make a better film than X and a food critic can't make a better meal than Y but that doesn't mean their role is pointless they can still give educated criticism on a field regardless if they're a top-level performer in that field.

I'll refrain from looking through your post history but I'm willing to bet you've criticised footballers or managers in the past, or better yet people in fields of work other than your own. I highly doubt you've never once critised anyone other than people inferior than yourself in your chosen career - which makes you a hypocrite. This holier than thou approach really doesn't work when you take such a generalised approach.

And Moyes is anything but totally respectful - the man is famed for his bitterness and grudges he has held. He has happily critised and blamed everyone but himself at a number of different teams publicly and privately.

This is a really weird hill to die on, Moyes isn't the Angel Gabriel and above any sort of criticism. Fair enough some people may take it too far, death threats and things are obviously disgusting but again those sorts of things don't exist on this forum because they get instantly removed and rightfully the community finds it appalling but 99% of them are well within their rights to criticise Moyes.

And same goes to your point about how the poster looks, he made a joke about an amusing photo. I'd hate to live in this ultra-sterile world that you imagine.
 
Macern said:
I don't know how the culture is at Iceland, but I'm taught to be humble and respect everyone I meet until they give me reasons to do otherwise. We're judging Moyes on his failure during his time here as a football manager, yet the ones making fun of him are people who haven't achieved anything near what he's achieved during his career as a manager. Moyes is classy and doesn't hold grudges. Some people here are making me sick.

Slightly unrelated; God I'd love to see @Red_toad 's face who makes fun of Fellaini's appearance. I dare you to show your face in the I want your pics thread. Let's see how beautiful you are
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'Not making fun' of someone and actively showing the respect is not the same thing. I don't make fun of Moyes but I don't particularly respect him. He's a football manager and as such he hasn't won a damn thing at top level so his achievements are in the form of taking a team and punching above their weight a bit. When he actually got expecations on his shoulder he didn't perform.

Moyes also definitely holds a grudge and he's said some things that sound bitter and that have made people turn on him more. For many United fans on the forum he's the face of their worst experience as fans watching United. He gives out a feeling of dread so there's no wonder some people choose to make fun of him.

But back to respect. Given from what I've heard from a player during his Real Sociedad stint he lost the player's respect quite quickly with his coaching methods which very much explains why he did badly there.

I personally have nothing against him as a person but in general people do not autamatically hold my respect by simply excisting. I treat everyone I meet well but that's just because of the way I am. I work with a person that beat up another person in my office but didn't lose his job (got sent to rehab) whilst the other person quit because of it. Whilst I say hello to him and don't treat him badly in anyway I still loath the guy.

As for the comment about Moeys' face, it was a fair one. It was a bit funny to see how his face reacted but at the same time the host was an absolute dick with how he presented the question and Moyes answered it as well as you could.
 
FujiVice said:
Not to defend Moyes, but Fellaini he wanted from the moment he got the job, whether we bought Fabregas/Kroos or whoever. That particular signing was more on the Chief Executive than Moyes. Woodward anticipated Everton would let us tickle their belly and that wasnt the case.

As far as Mata goes, we were desperate at that point, but if a player like him is available, the decision was spot on to sign him. It was a wise investment for when we finally sacked the clueless idiot.
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I've read that the delay in signing him was because Moyes wasn't 100% certain about the transfer. We probably won't know the truth until someone involved retires.

As for Mata it was a good signing but still kneejerk. He had no idea where to play him, he just needed a statement. If we'd been top of the league he would still be a Chelsea player.
 
Snow said:
'Not making fun' of someone and actively showing the respect is not the same thing. I don't make fun of Moyes but I don't particularly respect him. He's a football manager and as such he hasn't won a damn thing at top level so his achievements are in the form of taking a team and punching above their weight a bit. When he actually got expecations on his shoulder he didn't perform.

Moyes also definitely holds a grudge and he's said some things that sound bitter and that have made people turn on him more. For many United fans on the forum he's the face of their worst experience as fans watching United. He gives out a feeling of dread so there's no wonder some people choose to make fun of him.

But back to respect. Given from what I've heard from a player during his Real Sociedad stint he lost the player's respect quite quickly with his coaching methods which very much explains why he did badly there.

I personally have nothing against him as a person but in general people do not autamatically hold my respect by simply excisting. I treat everyone I meet well but that's just because of the way I am. I work with a person that beat up another person in my office but didn't lose his job (got sent to rehab) whilst the other person quit because of it. Whilst I say hello to him and don't treat him badly in anyway I still loath the guy.

As for the comment about Moeys' face, it was a fair one. It was a bit funny to see how his face reacted but at the same time the host was an absolute dick with how he presented the question and Moyes answered it as well as you could.
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The mantra of civility is expected but respect is earned is something I'd agree on.
 
Macern said:
Moyes didn't succeed, but I'm tired of spending my free time reading lines from people who don't have enough decency to respect him. He knows a million times more about football than 99% of the posters here
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Van Gaal didn't succeed, Moyes was an utter failure. There is a difference. Know it.
 
Macern said:
What's your problem with him? He's acting professional and I'm frankly embarrassed that we identify with the same team when you act arrogant; almost as if you could do better than him. I won't become a mod by saying this, but the level of posting was a lot higher a few years ago, nowadays everyone has a loud voice. No offense
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Ah those Halcyon days of 2014 when everyone was very respectful of David Moyes and never took the piss out of him or insulted him.

If you don't like seeing posts where people take the piss out of David Moyes then this isn't the thread for you my friend.
 
Macern said:
What's your problem with him? He's acting professional and I'm frankly embarrassed that we identify with the same team when you act arrogant; almost as if you could do better than him. I won't become a mod by saying this, but the level of posting was a lot higher a few years ago, nowadays everyone has a loud voice. No offense
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Can't say I disagree with you on the bolded part, the player performance threads and post match threads are embarrassing at times.

When one player doesn't play a game, people say he should leave cause the manager doesn't fancy him, when stats from last season prove otherwise. Seems if someone believes something they'll keep repeating it and argue about it no matter what.
 
stevoc said:
Ah those Halcyon days of 2014 when everyone was very respectful of David Moyes and never took the piss out of him or insulted him.

If you don't like seeing posts where people take the piss out of David Moyes then this isn't the thread for you my friend.
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:lol:

Fair enough. I was drunk as hell and apparently has a strong sympathy for David Moyes last night
 
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Moyes is far from the worst in that video. Who is that's Scot with the glasses in the middle talking nonsense?

Madrid players only needed one chance to score apparently, apart from all the saves De Gea made and the 3 or 4 times they hit the woodwork. Lukaku misses one chance, arguably a sitter, and he's going to bomb. Nah.
 
Ramshock said:
Moyesy throwing his tuppence in on our new season. Needs a slap in his dour face.

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Thought what he said was mainly reasonable, balanced and intelligent. Particularly about Fellaini. He was invited to justify himself and take a poke at the club and the later managers, and respectfully declined (as any ex-manager should (but is not always done)). Fair dues.
 
Might be wrong but that was the first time I watched him and he actually comes across as quite sensible about us while making some good points.

Maybe that whole Sunderland fiasco was a real slap in the face.
 
Grande said:
Thought what he said was mainly reasonable, balanced and intelligent. Particularly about Fellaini. He was invited to justify himself and take a poke at the club and the later managers, and respectfully declined (as any ex-manager should (but is not always done)). Fair dues.
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Its his face I dont like what he said was reasonable enough
 
pascell said:
Can't say I disagree with you on the bolded part, the player performance threads and post match threads are embarrassing at times.

When one player doesn't play a game, people say he should leave cause the manager doesn't fancy him, when stats from last season prove otherwise. Seems if someone believes something they'll keep repeating it and argue about it no matter what.
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Was it really better just a few years ago though? I wasn't a full member before last year, but I lurked for many years and my impression is not that RedCafe went from nothing but reasonable level headed posts to sheer knee jerk idiocy. It was always there. Maybe slightly less. Hilarious to see dozens of people slating Morata after a 15 minute sub appearance a few days ago.

But if there really has been a change in post quality over the last few years, what do you think caused it? Is it because of all the newbies? :p
 
whatwha said:
Was it really better just a few years ago though? I wasn't a full member before last year, but I lurked for many years and my impression is not that RedCafe went from nothing but reasonable level headed posts to sheer knee jerk idiocy. It was always there. Maybe slightly less. Hilarious to see dozens of people slating Morata after a 15 minute sub appearance a few days ago.

But if there really has been a change in post quality over the last few years, what do you think caused it? Is it because of all the newbies? :p
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It was very reasonable, the debates were fair and respectful without anyone having an agenda against a certain poster, player or something like that.

Nowadays it's as if some posters can't wait for certain players to fail, like you said with Morata, the guys barely settled into new surroundings, tactics etc and because he misses a penalty he's going to be a failure which is a bit premature imo, I think he'll score 20+ this season. Some people cant wait for players like Martial not to start one game so they can aim digs at Jose and his 'anti youth policy' which is embarrassing to read.

The knee jerk was always there but to a much lesser extent, I'm not sure why it's more frequent now than back then. I wouldn't say it's because of all the newbies because the mods do a great job of ensuring the debates stay fair. But I've seen a lot of threads get derailed with people being pessimistic, post match threads and player performance threads are the main ones.
 
pascell said:
It was very reasonable, the debates were fair and respectful without anyone having an agenda against a certain poster, player or something like that.

Nowadays it's as if some posters can't wait for certain players to fail, like you said with Morata, the guys barely settled into new surroundings, tactics etc and because he misses a penalty he's going to be a failure which is a bit premature imo, I think he'll score 20+ this season. Some people cant wait for players like Martial not to start one game so they can aim digs at Jose and his 'anti youth policy' which is embarrassing to read.
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Agenda posters has always been a big part of the Caf.

Berbatov vs. Tevez
Nani vs. Valencia
Rooney vs. Ronaldo
 
Top said:
Agenda posters has always been a big part of the Caf.

Berbatov vs. Tevez
Nani vs. Valencia
Rooney vs. Ronaldo
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Think the difference now is that we have manager agenda posters. Under SAF this was unthinkable.

When you have your individual players agenda posters you get mostly posts on that player, but managerial agenda posters will cover a bit of everything from tactics, player selection, talent development, transfers, results and media.

This way you get a bigger impact since the pro\con manager agenda will shine through when discussing anything and everything.
 
Top said:
Agenda posters has always been a big part of the Caf.

Berbatov vs. Tevez
Nani vs. Valencia
Rooney vs. Ronaldo
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I meant agenda in post match and players performance threads such as Lingard, Rooney and Fellaini. Sometimes it's as if they want them to have a bad game so they can rinse them into the ground with their negative comments, it's already beginning with Lindelof too.
 
pascell said:
I meant agenda in post match and players performance threads such as Lingard, Rooney and Fellaini. Sometimes it's as if they want them to have a bad game so they can rinse them into the ground with their negative comments, it's already beginning with Lindelof too.
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Happened all the time in Nani, Valencia, Tevez and Berbaov threads.
 
Kopral Jono said:
:lol: at bolded, that's pure gold.

Also, how did you come to the conclusion that those who make fun of Moyes are automatically less successful than him? Moyes is an utter failure as a football manager. I'm fairly sure there are those who make fun of him and are not utter failures at what they do.
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I thought it was a wum before I got to the bolded bit, but that confirmed it:lol:
 
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