How? The player is literally 1 metre out. Just because he made his foot to the ball because he guessed right doesn't mean he should have saved it. If he had kept it out that would have been a really great save. He never "should" have saved it. If its that close to the goal I don't expect a keeper to save those he did great to get any on it.
Dean Henderson has to be our #1 next season? Poll added
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
How? The player is literally 1 metre out. Just because he made his foot to the ball because he guessed right doesn't mean he should have saved it. If he had kept it out that would have been a really great save. He never "should" have saved it. If its that close to the goal I don't expect a keeper to save those he did great to get any on it.
Yes the good old xG. While I agree that xG is limited in many discussions, it certainly reflects the correct picture in this case. Sheffield go out to play as a defensive team, no doubt about that, but that doesn't mean they're a good defensively and give the keeper more protection essentially. Otherwise they wouldn't face such a high xG. The only way you concede much fewer than xGa is that you have a great goalkeeper, just like de Gea conceded 28 from an xGa of 43.5 in his prime.
How are people calling for Henderson when he makes mistakes too. Just because he plays for SU, the mistakes are not highlighted as much as Manutd.
SU face 5/6 shots in comparison to United's 1 or 2.
DDG must be given the help he needs to regain his form.
There is no way we can get rid of him, so anyone who says sell him or get rid.. please put forward a sensible way to do so before making such comments.
Blame the club for giving him 360k a week or whatever, that has happened and we are here now. DDG will not be dropped.
SU face 5/6 shots in comparison to United's 1 or 2.
DDG must be given the help he needs to regain his form.
There is no way we can get rid of him, so anyone who says sell him or get rid.. please put forward a sensible way to do so before making such comments.
Blame the club for giving him 360k a week or whatever, that has happened and we are here now. DDG will not be dropped.
De Gea would have saved the first one, no doubt. Even now, he's brilliant at saving shots with his feet.
I'm up for giving Henderson a shot at the number 1 spot, but there's also a high chance of him being akin to Ben Foster in that he was highly rated, touted to replace VDS and was great on loan at Champ/Premiership clubs but at United he struggled with the pressure and other sides of the game.
I'm up for giving Henderson a shot at the number 1 spot, but there's also a high chance of him being akin to Ben Foster in that he was highly rated, touted to replace VDS and was great on loan at Champ/Premiership clubs but at United he struggled with the pressure and other sides of the game.
Statistically, one mistake out of 5/6 shots is better than one mistake out of 1/2. It just shows how poor DDG's concentration is. I've lost my patience with him and he's supposedly immune from dropping. Any other position and he'd be benched.
He's also second highest in the league for number of errors. The stats speak for themselves.
It would be foolish to sell him yes, but I definitely think he would benefit from being dropped to the bench. I'd have him as #2 until he returns to form. From next season he can fight it out with Henderson for the #1 spot.
I agree, the mistakes are costing us alot now.
However; you are living in a fantasy world if you think you can have 2 goalkeepers fight it out for the #1 spot. How does one get in? mistake? rotation?
What constitutes a mistake? have a 360k GK on the bench? we already have one of those on loan.
What happens to Henderson's development if DDG doesnt make mistakes next season?
Tottenham manager Jose Mourinho is also an admirer of Henderson from his time managing him at United.
Its a rod we've made for our own backs by letting DDG hold us to ransom. I can't see another club taking an injury-prone keeper on at those wages. We held onto him for far too long, even when it was clear that his heart wasn't truly at the club.
Rotating two top keepers is difficult but not impossible. I think Chelsea managed it with Cech and Cudicini. If that's not possible, then I'd much rather lose a keeper who is on the verge of costing us top four for a second consecutive year than a promising potential England #1 who has the joint top number of clean sheets in the league.
If I was Ole I'd be doing everything possible to get Henderson signed up with promises of the #1 spot. Especially if we're getting our shit together in defence too. We simply cannot afford to lose him to a rival.
DDG is not injury prone. His heart was at Madrid and since then his heart has been at United. Can you show me something that suggests otherwise? A player who was the best keeper in the world stuck by United. We cannot stick by someone? just shows how shallow the fans are.
He was never rotated with Cech, he replaced him when Cech was injured that is about it.
You have contradicted yourself here, first saying you cannot see another club taking him, then saying you dont mind losing him? How do you suggest we get rid of DDG? Please give me a sensible solution to this.
Ole has said Henderson will be United No.1. Have you seen the errors Henderson has made this season?
It's a no-brainer for me.
You have De Gea, on £375k a week, who probably won't get any better and appears to be getting worse.
Then you have Henderson, who would probably sign a new contract as your number 1 for what, £50k a week? With the potential to improve massively and be your number one for years.
The only issue you have is anyone who would be prepared to take him and pay him the same or more, wont want to pay a sizeable fee too.
But even without taking any fee into account, it'd save you nearly £17m a season in wages and you might end up with a better keeper long-term.
You have De Gea, on £375k a week, who probably won't get any better and appears to be getting worse.
Then you have Henderson, who would probably sign a new contract as your number 1 for what, £50k a week? With the potential to improve massively and be your number one for years.
The only issue you have is anyone who would be prepared to take him and pay him the same or more, wont want to pay a sizeable fee too.
But even without taking any fee into account, it'd save you nearly £17m a season in wages and you might end up with a better keeper long-term.
The statistics literally prove the opposite. He faces more shots than de gea and saves more. And makes less mistakes.
Yes.. he faces more shots. I dont want DDG to face more shots in all honesty. have you watched Henderson properly? or are you jumping on the bandwagon?
How do you know what his concentration is like without having been a passenger throughout the game and called upon to make a save?
Have you seen his distribution?
Henderson makes mistakes, his positioning is questionable.
Henderson might have the talent but there is no guarantee he will cope with the pressure at United. No one knows if he will until he's in the team, so it is a gamble.
Foster, Taibi, Bosnich, Howard, Carrol - they were all very highly touted and performed very well prior to getting a shot at being United's number 1 (where they all failed to varying degrees).
Yes De Gea has made mistakes but writing him off is a but quick imo. If he wants to stay we can have another 8 years with him in goal and keepers generally peak in their 30s.
Henderson could be great but there is not certainty.
Foster, Taibi, Bosnich, Howard, Carrol - they were all very highly touted and performed very well prior to getting a shot at being United's number 1 (where they all failed to varying degrees).
Yes De Gea has made mistakes but writing him off is a but quick imo. If he wants to stay we can have another 8 years with him in goal and keepers generally peak in their 30s.
Henderson could be great but there is not certainty.
I've watched him plenty this season. He has been a monster for Sheffield United. His distribution is probably on par with de gea. The mistakes Henderson makes are in line with the other top keepers he isn't making more than Allison for example. He has a high save percentage. He is very commanding on corners which is a big advantage. But then I don't need to tell you this stuff. The stats are clearly there. There isn't one metric which de gea has been better than him this season.
The only way you will know if a player can cope is by putting them in a situation. We know de gea hasn't been able to cope for the last 18 months it's more likely he will continue to not cope than it is for him to dramatically go back to his top form.
Find me mistakes Allison has made.
Henderson V Liverpool - One of the worst mistakes by keeper this season
Henderson V Newcastle - Mistake
On par with Allison?
It isn't really about any individual mistake, rather it is about the reaction from the mistake and the number of mistakes. Ideally you want a player who makes no mistakes but this is impossible - so you want a player who makes few mistakes and if and when they do make mistakes, they react positively afterwards.
No, xG doesn't give the correct picture at all. Its just a stat . We had enough discussions on that - how exactly did DDG face more xGa ? Because of our defensive lapses like the one Henderson faced on Sunday. Henderson was not supposed to even get that as a xGA because its not a xG for Saint Maxim. It was a result of a mistake which we really can't predict until it actually happens.We had numerous discussions on this.
There wasn't a mistake against Newcastle. What are you on about?
The first goal is a mistake. If DDG done that, we would be on here criticising him. Getting beat near post.
I think we need to start Henderson next season. Give him a proper chance too, let him play through a couple mistakes if they happen rather than immediately throw DDG in after his first mistake. If we get through a large chunk of games and it isn't working out we have DDG waiting, if it does work out then sell DDG next summer.
DDG is clearly on the decline and I don't think we can afford to not give Henderson a chance.
DDG is clearly on the decline and I don't think we can afford to not give Henderson a chance.
I thought Henderson could've done better with Newcastle's first goal, though he's obviously not at fault, it was a total defensive howler, but he gets something on it, on another day he probably saves it. Not sure what happens on the 2nd goal though, he doesn't look ready, and doesn't even move, though the defender does just keep backing off and backing off, perhaps his view was blocked. No chance on the third.
None were his fault, but I'd probably be a bit miffed if De Gea had conceded that first goal considering how much he got on it.
None were his fault, but I'd probably be a bit miffed if De Gea had conceded that first goal considering how much he got on it.
It may be controversial. But I'd stick with De Gea.
Yes he's made costly mistakes, but let's not forget for 5 to 6 seasons this guy was arguably our best player. For some of those seasons he definately was.
He's also 29, so it's not like he's long in the tooth, whilst I 100 percent believe his ceiling is far higher then Hendersons.
Henderson is 23 now, compare his ability to De Geas at that age and he isn't on the same planet. De Gea was already top 5 in the world and climbing by that point.
And finally, after the chronic defences he's played with, match winning performances and loyalty to the club... I think as fans we should try to give him more time to rediscover his form. I'm not saying that's for 3 more years. But for at least another season.
Yes he's made costly mistakes, but let's not forget for 5 to 6 seasons this guy was arguably our best player. For some of those seasons he definately was.
He's also 29, so it's not like he's long in the tooth, whilst I 100 percent believe his ceiling is far higher then Hendersons.
Henderson is 23 now, compare his ability to De Geas at that age and he isn't on the same planet. De Gea was already top 5 in the world and climbing by that point.
And finally, after the chronic defences he's played with, match winning performances and loyalty to the club... I think as fans we should try to give him more time to rediscover his form. I'm not saying that's for 3 more years. But for at least another season.
What mistake? Where? The striker is 1 metre out he luckily guessed the right way and got a toe on it. If he had saved it would have been a great save. No keeper is expected to save a shot in that position he moved over and guessed the right way that's why he even got close. That's like saying Schmeichel is at fault for dawsons goal because he guessed the right trajectory of the ball. It's not a mistake.
1 metre? The ball was going towards that side, his positioning is questionable there and for the second goal. The second goal was middle of the goal (height ) and he was no where near it.
He may well go on and become a great goal keeper but at this moment in time he isnt there yet.
I guarantee you, if he starts for us next season, he will cost us more points than DDG.
P.S Go have a look at the following goals
Go have a look at Tammy's goal V SU
Wolves away
Brighton Home
Last edited:
And he had like 2 seconds to react after the unexpected blunder of the CB.
Yes maxim was 1 metre out and he had to run across the goal after a complete mix up from his defender. He luckily got a toe on it. He guessed the right way nothing to do with bad positioning. The second one clearly he was off sighted and the ball flew into the corner. None of the goals are mistakes or his fault.
Fine, I think he should have saved it but I will take your opinion on that goal.
Now go have a look at the following goals:
1. Tammy's goal at the Bridge
2. Wolves goal Molineux
3. Brighton Goal at Sheffield
4. Liverpool goal at Sheffield.
This is actually hilarious. Yes he has made a mistake for the Liverpool goal we all know that. But none of the others are mistakes. The Chelsea one he definitely could of done better but you could see its a difficult situation also that was literally the second game of the season so I think you can allow him.
The others are not even mistakes headers from 1 metre out you think he should be saving? Really?
Henderson has only made 1 clear mistake that has led to a goal. Liverpool at home.
Have to say Henderson was really poor against Newcastle.
The first goal he should have saved, and the second one he was rooted to the spot, he didn't even dive. He should have saved both.
As for the third goal, well you wouldn't expect any keeper to save it.
The first goal he should have saved, and the second one he was rooted to the spot, he didn't even dive. He should have saved both.
As for the third goal, well you wouldn't expect any keeper to save it.
So you can criticise DDG for flapping at crosses but when Henderson ends up in no mans land I am being funny?
So like you said earlier, he is on par with Allison, can you show me how you come to this conclusion?
Also he made the same mistakes in the championship. The Liverpool goal was not a one off, he conceded the same type of goal last season too.
The Chelsea one is a mistake. there is no two ways about it.
How about Chelsea away? Tammy Abraham?
Not having that, doesn’t the ball get kicked out of his hands for the first and then the second is just an awful defensive error.
I don’t want to defend him purely because we’ve got him on loan but I’m not sure about this. Last season he had a howler against Leeds, struggle to think about any others.
De Gea's strengths though are not really suited to an older keeper. Though all keepers are, he is probably more reliant on his reaction speed because of his weaknesses (commanding and corners etc.). It is evident to see that he has lost some of his reaction speed; he is not as fast as he used to be.
The problem with De Gea is that he is neither commanding, great at corners, nor a calming influence. At 29, you would expect him to be better at this stuff, which are major benefits of having a more experienced keeper. I do not see the benefit of keeping him for longer if he is not going to provide these; his reaction time is only going to get worse.
Yes, he has been brilliant for SU. DDG has been criticised for such goals being conceded too.
What do you make of his passing out the back?
Comfortable. I don’t get worried when it’s at his feet put it that way.
Fair enough. We had the same issues with Ben Foster too. On loan he was brilliant, one of the best young keepers but we know what happened when he got the chance at United.
If we manage to sell DDG then Henderson would be great knowing he will make mistakes in the season. He is still young for a keeper and needs to get the confidence of United No. 1
However; selling DDG is almost impossible, would rather see him go out on loan one more season then come back completely ready.