Given that you believe Barkley has more talent than Alli, I'm afraid that what you find "hard to believe" carries less weight than a dandelion on which a gnat is perching.
Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey
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Given that you believe Barkley has more talent than Alli, I'm afraid that what you find "hard to believe" carries less weight than a dandelion on which a gnat is perching.
In fairness I've always been a huge fan of Pereira. He has ridiculous ability, it's just transferring that into performances. If he does I have no doubt he will reach the very top of the game.
This Ali situation reminds me of Ramsey a few years ago. Gets all this hype from these long scoring runs but in terms of quality I don't see how he can sustain it and people realize again now that Ramsey is not all that. Lampard was a goal scoring freak in that way he carried it on, though was helped a lot by how Mou set up the Chelsea team, with two sitting midfielders and an unselfish striker which created so many goals for him specifically. I wouldn't necessarily say Kane is totally unselfish but the whole tottenham team work incredibly hard to open space up for Ali. He would never score as many goals at another PL team.
Whilst I agree with your general point re: Barkley and Alli's respective talents, surely removing the gnat would carry less weight in your analogy?
Let's not go there ...
Well that's a hypothetical. What we do know is that he scores plenty, has done it over a sustained period and if you watch it's clear the goals are down to talent.
Some of the criticism and judgement of Alli's game on here to discredit him is absolutely ridiculous.
The fact is he's 20 and I'm sure his game will develop leaps and bounds over the years so saying he's a Lampard and can't influence a game apart from stats is silly. Scholes at 20 was a SS, Gerrard was a B2B midfielder, Pirlo was a No.10, Iniesta was a striker etc. All of these players developed their games and became world class in different positions.
Saying Alli is a Lampard in the sense of just affecting stats is another backhanded compliment from those unable to objectively see the quality in a class young player at a rival team.
His awareness, touch and dribbling in tight spaces makes it clear that when he's fully developed he'll clearly have more to his games than "JUST goals and assists".
The fact is he's 20 and I'm sure his game will develop leaps and bounds over the years so saying he's a Lampard and can't influence a game apart from stats is silly. Scholes at 20 was a SS, Gerrard was a B2B midfielder, Pirlo was a No.10, Iniesta was a striker etc. All of these players developed their games and became world class in different positions.
Saying Alli is a Lampard in the sense of just affecting stats is another backhanded compliment from those unable to objectively see the quality in a class young player at a rival team.
His awareness, touch and dribbling in tight spaces makes it clear that when he's fully developed he'll clearly have more to his games than "JUST goals and assists".
I'd say a hypothetical based on logical reasoning. Clearly Ali is a good finisher, I'm not disputing that if that's what you mean by showing "talent" in scoring goals.
To answer the thread question I'd say yes, Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder.
And I think it all took off for him last year around this time when he scored this wonder goal against Palace
And I think it all took off for him last year around this time when he scored this wonder goal against Palace
Why is this thread here? He is the best midfielder in England, end off. Anyone saying otherwise is either jealous or dillusional.
Of course he would. The guy is absolute class.
Without doubt we should be after him, but it's just not going to happen.
I don't usually agree with you, but on this I have to.
Martial a bigger talent, Alli not worth £70mil? Come one.
We paid £50mil for Martial when he hadn't done half as much as Alli.
Alli is proven Premier League quality and is the focal point of a team currently 2nd in the league. Any club in the top 6 would take him in a heart beat, though I'm sure he will stay at Spurs to see if they can fullfil their potential.
What a great thread.
He's not a midfielder, but he is England's best young talent bar none.
I don't even understand why we're comparing Alli to Pogba. They don't play the same role and therefore their output no matter the statistics used to measure their performance will always look much different. I think Pogba has more of an overall influence on matches and can dictate and control matches without scoring, but he's also older and it's possible Alli will develop a more well rounded game in terms of build up play and ability to play deeper. Either way I think Alli is a special talent in his own right.
Yeah, no. I could care less about Pogba's transfer fee or his wages. How much money a player makes and/or value for money are completely different issues from their impact on the pitch. It's one of your favorite BS strawmen to distort actual discussion of performance. Opposition supporters like you seem to focus on his transfer fee and wages far more than I see United fans discussing it.
Also I love how you went from goals are all that matter to touting the superiority of Alli's drive, energy and winning mentality, which are BS platitudes which can't be measured. I'm not sure what Alli has done to prove these things at a higher level than Pogba. Neither of these guys is exactly Roy Keane.
I don't even understand why we're comparing Alli to Pogba. They don't play the same role and therefore their output no matter the statistics used to measure their performance will always look much different. I think Pogba has more of an overall influence on matches and can dictate and control matches without scoring, but he's also older and it's possible Alli will develop a more well rounded game in terms of build up play and ability to play deeper. Either way I think Alli is a special talent in his own right.
Yeah, no. I could care less about Pogba's transfer fee or his wages. How much money a player makes and/or value for money are completely different issues from their impact on the pitch. It's one of your favorite BS strawmen to distort actual discussion of performance. Opposition supporters like you seem to focus on his transfer fee and wages far more than I see United fans discussing it.
Also I love how you went from goals are all that matter to touting the superiority of Alli's drive, energy and winning mentality, which are BS platitudes which can't be measured. I'm not sure what Alli has done to prove these things at a higher level than Pogba. Neither of these guys is exactly Roy Keane.
This is one of the vaguer statements I've read on this forum. Is this based on observing Alli losing his temper now and again, or celebrating a goal more vociferously than Pogba? I'm not saying you're incorrect but what exactly did you see to make you think this? There must have been specific observations on specific occasions which led you to this conclusion?
I haven't seen anywhere near as much of Alli as I have of Pogba. I've often seen Pogba driving United on, dominating the midfield and instigating wave after wave of attack. That looks to me like a player with a lot of drive but you've obviously seen this to an even greater extent in Alli. Neither of them are Roy Keane but still, a few specific observations would be nice to hear.
Ahh...you just wrote what I wrote, but put things a little more bluntly!
Hahaha! Great minds!
First, I haven't said that goals are "all that matter" - I've said they are the most important thing, since ultimately that's what the game is about. Second, I was told that my rating of Alli in relation to Pogba was simply stats-based in relation to goals, so I went on to highlight some of his other attributes.
You're right in saying that drive, energy and winning mentality can't really be measured, but they can be assessed simply from watching players on the pitch, so like so much in football.
Right and in this case there's nothing to suggest Alli is superior in these areas. It's a subjective assessment you've made because you get your feelings hurt that United supporters on a United forum rate Pogba as a superior player over Alli. If I went to a Spurs forum I wouldn't expect the opinion to be the same and I wouldn't be as upset and annoyed about it as you are.
Alli is class. In good form at the moment yes, but undeniably class. The fact that certain spurs fans can be insufferable about him shouldn't detract from that
It's amazing that Van Gaal didn't see his talent and make a bid when we played MK Dons when he was still there at the start of Van Gaals reign. Dele Alli had Fergie signing written all over him if Fergie hung around a while longer
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Lol ... this whole Alli / Pogba thing essentially started because I ventured the opinion that Alli (last season) had shown at least as much potential as Pogba did at the same age (19, going on 20). This suggestion was bitterly criticised - such is the precious attitude concerning Pogba on here - as if it was some outrageous statement, when IMO it was quite justified for a player who was voted PFA Young Player of the Year and scored 10 goals with 11 assists.
Since then, Alli has gone on to already score as many goals this season as he did in the whole of last season, not to mention a few sublime assists.
Now the charge against him has evolved into essentially the claim that he mainly only (!) scores goals and makes assists, and that Pogba is superior in every other aspect of the game. This is a questionable notion. Quite apart from the aspects I've already mentioned, it's doubtful that Pogba is a better dribbler than Alli or a more intelligent footballer than Alli.
I rate Alli really high and I myself said he's little bit like English Pogba but he will never win the balloon d' or if he stays in only top 6 club like Spurs. Pogba has a littl higher ceeiling which is still big compliment for Delle Alli:-)
My god, it's blindingly obvious you've never played the game yourself. More "intelligent" than a plyer who plays a completely differrent role and even if they did play in the same role, intelligence can mean a near infinite number of things. You're just making this up as you go along.
This bit is all very true, anyone that argues otherwise is just being too biased towards Pogba. But so many English players have looked good as teenagers and then haven't seemed to improve (Wilshere, Ox, Barkley, Shaw, Chambers, Sterling, Stones), hopefully Alli doesn't go the same way (I know it's not too late for any of them to turn it around, but there's definitely a trend).
Pogba isn't a better dribbler than Alli? Feck me, sit down mate. You won a game against West Brom today, not much else happened.
Ali showing as much potential as Pogba is really not true at all. Anyone who understands the midfield position can surely see that?
Pogba has dominated midfields his entire career at every club and team he has played at. Ali has scored a lot of goals (some very spectacular ones too) but that's not showing more potential. He was never really one of the more talented players in the England youth teams either. Loftus-Cheek and the like played better than him at youth level. Ali has taken his chance and scored a lot of goals in a team that works their asses off to open up space for him. He's a very good young player who belongs in the top half (possibly top 4) of the PL, but no more than that. If you put lots of legwork and quality around him he will continue to lok fantastic, but Dembele and Erikson are both better than him in most ways.
I came into this going to say he is. But then Glaston has to be a cnut as usual and now I hate Tottenham.
I'm starting to like arsenal more just because of you.
I'm starting to like arsenal more just because of you.
Footballing intelligence is a recognised - and important - aspect of the game, not some vague concept. Does Pogba have more of it than Alli? If not, what price the claim that Pogba is superior to Alli in all aspects bar goals?
Pogba was the talk of world football at 20 years old. Making Alli out to be ahead of the Pogba curb at the same age is ridiculous.
Alli is Fowler, Collymore or Ian Wright. Top names that are only top names in the bubble that is the Premiership. Blood and thunder and all box play.
Pogba is a Zidane with one season scoring over 10 goals in his career. An Iniesta type. The game runs through him that can't be explained through stats.
He's the world class player that is lauded at Barca or Madrid while the English league bow at the feet of David Silva or KDB.
That's how big his signing is. Pogba v Alli is Neymar v Hazard.
There's simply a level between excellent and elite.
Alli is Fowler, Collymore or Ian Wright. Top names that are only top names in the bubble that is the Premiership. Blood and thunder and all box play.
Pogba is a Zidane with one season scoring over 10 goals in his career. An Iniesta type. The game runs through him that can't be explained through stats.
He's the world class player that is lauded at Barca or Madrid while the English league bow at the feet of David Silva or KDB.
That's how big his signing is. Pogba v Alli is Neymar v Hazard.
There's simply a level between excellent and elite.
I love it. You really are the class clown. You're team hasn't won anything since when?
This generation only understands stats, FIFA ratings and fantasy football mate. I fear you're wasting your breath. Though I have to admit I see Hazard and Neymar as equals, both world class.
All was 19 for most of last season - the plain fact is that at 19 Pogba did not perform as much as Alli.
The "talk of world football" at age 20 ... lol. Nah, world football was, as usual, mainly talking about the likes of Ronaldo and Messi ... i.e. the true elite.
It's a vague concept when someone who doesn't understand it says "X player is more intelligent than player Y". Perhaps you can surprise me and explain what you mean?
It means intelligent use of the ball, anticipation, vision, awareness - like Alli's assist for one of Kane's goals today.
Please enlighten me fro your experience watching him when he was 19. How is this?