Damn, you Scandis have it good. I was forced to take my paltry two weeks leave within 6 months of the birth.
Is that 14 weeks on full pay?
Is that 14 weeks on full pay?
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I think you'r unfair to many of us.
It's understandable that supporters get's frustrated if the club invest £30m on a matured player who's not deliver what you can expect. It's not just one bad game. It's more of nearly one year without any significant improvement.
Part of that is because Atletico frankly let him go cheap. He wasn't exactly an unknown at the time. If he wanted to go to Liverpool, having stood by his childhood team for so long, and they wouldn't budge on the price... not an awful lot they can do there really I guess
Part of it is that we grossly overpaid for Berbatov
Pogue is taking his bat and ball home here. The criticisms of Berbatov are fair. Nothing knee jerk now, he's been here for a year and a half. If you're being kind, he's looked better than last season, but there's not an awful lot in it. Assists are a bollocks stat, but I believe he's only had 2 this season, and 4 goals in 12 games with 6 subs appearances (one of those subs was virtually a full game against Wolfsburg) barely cuts mustard. Our genuine right winger with no left foot having to fill the void left by Ronaldo is outscoring him currently, and he's only one better off than 'own goals'...
Fcuk!! I didn't realise that!
I wonder how many in here would rather have seen Torres sign for us rather than Berba?
The following info's for Norway, don't know about them other Scandi cnuts:
The parents can take in total 12 months (e.g. mom 9 m, dad 3 m) leave with 80 % pay or 9 months with 100 % pay.
We're taking a year, which means my 14 weeks are on 80 % pay.
The dad MUST take minimum 10 weeks in total, in order to "force" them to spend more time with the child.
I'm taking 14 as I'm running for dad of the year.
Fcuk!! I didn't realise that!
I wonder how many in here would rather have seen Torres sign for us rather than Berba?
100 % of the United supporters.
The Liverpool supporters, not so much.
This despite Torres being a bit of a sick note.
Can you imagine Torres and Rooney up front for us? Ah feck, while I'm at it (day dreaming), imagine Ronaldo roaming around there as well?
This is all true. Considering the expectations and the price it's fair to say Berbatov's been a massive disappointment. If no improvement is made Fergie might be seeking to sell in the summer. Could we get £15m?
feck all the haters - Im going to continue to express my BerbaLove in this thread
About 0:58 seconds in
About 0:58 seconds in
I fecking love him
Let’s talk about Berbasex baby…
I’ve been getting a bit hot under the collar of late. United lost against Villa on Saturday, so I thought I’d steer clear of RedCafe for a while. I eventually turned my computer on this Monday. “It’ll be fine. It’ll all have settled down by now. I’ve cooled down. They’ve cooled down. We’ve got Wolves on the Tuesday. Onwards and upwards.” Now, I’m not going to lie. I like Dimitar Berbatov. He’s cool. He’s suave. He smokes. He looks like Andy Garcia. And he possesses one of the most sublime touches and brilliantly languid styles in football. So imagine my horror as I’m browsing through a few of the United threads and find that a vociferous debate over the Bulgarian has broken out and all in all he’s taking a bit of a pasting.
Let’s take a look at some cold, hard facts here. Berbatov signed for United for £30.75m. 61 appearances later the net has only bulged 18 times. No matter which way I dress this up I’m onto a loser here, but here goes anyway. That’s a ratio of 0.3 goals per game (basically, he’s been a 1 in 3 man for us). Incidentally, his career statistics read 207 goals in 463 games (a healthier ratio of 0.45). So we see that his ratio has dropped quite considerably since joining us. I’ll venture that this is down to two factors: firstly, it’s undeniable that he has been consigned to the bench a fair bit during his time here (he’s featured as a substitute 6 times this season in a total of 18 appearances). Secondly, during his first season with us, by Sir Alex’s own admission, he was played much deeper than what a conventional centre forward would be. There were times last season when he was starting from the halfway line and this isn’t really conducive to bagging 25 goals. Convinced? No, I didn’t think so.
So I dug a little deeper and found that Berba has played just 191 minutes of football for United since October 31st (just two starts) and has been plagued by this rather troublesome knee complaint. This is why I was most surprised to find that the debate had suddenly re-ignited. I could understand if a player had featured heavily during the aforementioned period and had failed to produce any semblance of form, but I found myself in the midst of a debate where the majority were deriding his United career despite the fact that he hasn’t even been taking to the pitch recently. The one thing that I requested was that people disregard last season and concentrate on the present. (Although I was interested to read that in addition to scoring 14, only Robin van Persie dwarfed his contribution in terms of Premier League assists). If we take this season in isolation then we cannot really have too many reasons for complaint. Berba has scored 4 league goals in 9 league starts (three of which were pivotal strikes) and was starting to really come to the fore before the knee started giving him bother.
As I’m writing this, I’m sat here realising that for every argument I posit, another United fan can come up with a convincing retort. We can literally go around in circles all day long. What we need to do, if we are to measure and appreciate Berbatov’s contribution, is to define what he is and what his position is. Is it fair to compare Dimi to some of the finest marksmen in the Premier League? If we take him and stand him next to Drogba and Torres then he’ll pale into insignificance. He’s not as prolific as them, nor does he play as high up the pitch. And herein lies the problem. I think Berbatov is judged as harshly as he is because the principle barometer with which to measure performance is goals. A quick glance at his career stats shows that he’s never penetrated the 30-goal barrier during his career; he’s typically been a 20-25 goal man. In that context, was 14 goals that atrocious for a footballer that was settling into a new city, team and set of tactics? Or lets look at it another way. Our very own Wayne Rooney has a United record of 109 in 256 (which is virtually identical to Berbatov’s career ratio). So why is it then that Rooney, another £30m centre forward is regarded as United’s best player and one of the finest players in world football, yet a striker with a near identical record is far less revered? No one can argue that it’s because Rooney makes more assists. The only discernable difference is their playing style. Berbatov’s apparent disinterested gait versus Rooney’s all action approach. So we’re back to the “Berbatov is a lazy so and so” debate.
As seen with Carlos Tevez’s during his two seasons at the club, the fans always take to a player who runs around like a blue-arse fly. But does this make you any more effective on the field? I’d venture a guess that Berbatov is a more productive forward player than Tevez (in terms of goals and assists), yet we all know who received more of the fans’ adulation. The fact is that Berbatov isn’t going to change his style and nor should he. He has received a lot of stick from United and opposition fans alike but Berbatov has contributed more to the cause than he is credited with. I can understand people getting infuriated with a player who doesn’t appear to be making much running when things are going awry. But by the same token, a player infused with a touch of genius doesn’t have to be playing well to produce just one flash of magic. Maybe it’s the fans that need to change their tune: start to appreciate inspiration as opposed to perspiration.
I’ve been getting a bit hot under the collar of late. United lost against Villa on Saturday, so I thought I’d steer clear of RedCafe for a while. I eventually turned my computer on this Monday. “It’ll be fine. It’ll all have settled down by now. I’ve cooled down. They’ve cooled down. We’ve got Wolves on the Tuesday. Onwards and upwards.” Now, I’m not going to lie. I like Dimitar Berbatov. He’s cool. He’s suave. He smokes. He looks like Andy Garcia. And he possesses one of the most sublime touches and brilliantly languid styles in football. So imagine my horror as I’m browsing through a few of the United threads and find that a vociferous debate over the Bulgarian has broken out and all in all he’s taking a bit of a pasting.
Let’s take a look at some cold, hard facts here. Berbatov signed for United for £30.75m. 61 appearances later the net has only bulged 18 times. No matter which way I dress this up I’m onto a loser here, but here goes anyway. That’s a ratio of 0.3 goals per game (basically, he’s been a 1 in 3 man for us). Incidentally, his career statistics read 207 goals in 463 games (a healthier ratio of 0.45). So we see that his ratio has dropped quite considerably since joining us. I’ll venture that this is down to two factors: firstly, it’s undeniable that he has been consigned to the bench a fair bit during his time here (he’s featured as a substitute 6 times this season in a total of 18 appearances). Secondly, during his first season with us, by Sir Alex’s own admission, he was played much deeper than what a conventional centre forward would be. There were times last season when he was starting from the halfway line and this isn’t really conducive to bagging 25 goals. Convinced? No, I didn’t think so.
So I dug a little deeper and found that Berba has played just 191 minutes of football for United since October 31st (just two starts) and has been plagued by this rather troublesome knee complaint. This is why I was most surprised to find that the debate had suddenly re-ignited. I could understand if a player had featured heavily during the aforementioned period and had failed to produce any semblance of form, but I found myself in the midst of a debate where the majority were deriding his United career despite the fact that he hasn’t even been taking to the pitch recently. The one thing that I requested was that people disregard last season and concentrate on the present. (Although I was interested to read that in addition to scoring 14, only Robin van Persie dwarfed his contribution in terms of Premier League assists). If we take this season in isolation then we cannot really have too many reasons for complaint. Berba has scored 4 league goals in 9 league starts (three of which were pivotal strikes) and was starting to really come to the fore before the knee started giving him bother.
As I’m writing this, I’m sat here realising that for every argument I posit, another United fan can come up with a convincing retort. We can literally go around in circles all day long. What we need to do, if we are to measure and appreciate Berbatov’s contribution, is to define what he is and what his position is. Is it fair to compare Dimi to some of the finest marksmen in the Premier League? If we take him and stand him next to Drogba and Torres then he’ll pale into insignificance. He’s not as prolific as them, nor does he play as high up the pitch. And herein lies the problem. I think Berbatov is judged as harshly as he is because the principle barometer with which to measure performance is goals. A quick glance at his career stats shows that he’s never penetrated the 30-goal barrier during his career; he’s typically been a 20-25 goal man. In that context, was 14 goals that atrocious for a footballer that was settling into a new city, team and set of tactics? Or lets look at it another way. Our very own Wayne Rooney has a United record of 109 in 256 (which is virtually identical to Berbatov’s career ratio). So why is it then that Rooney, another £30m centre forward is regarded as United’s best player and one of the finest players in world football, yet a striker with a near identical record is far less revered? No one can argue that it’s because Rooney makes more assists. The only discernable difference is their playing style. Berbatov’s apparent disinterested gait versus Rooney’s all action approach. So we’re back to the “Berbatov is a lazy so and so” debate.
As seen with Carlos Tevez’s during his two seasons at the club, the fans always take to a player who runs around like a blue-arse fly. But does this make you any more effective on the field? I’d venture a guess that Berbatov is a more productive forward player than Tevez (in terms of goals and assists), yet we all know who received more of the fans’ adulation. The fact is that Berbatov isn’t going to change his style and nor should he. He has received a lot of stick from United and opposition fans alike but Berbatov has contributed more to the cause than he is credited with. I can understand people getting infuriated with a player who doesn’t appear to be making much running when things are going awry. But by the same token, a player infused with a touch of genius doesn’t have to be playing well to produce just one flash of magic. Maybe it’s the fans that need to change their tune: start to appreciate inspiration as opposed to perspiration.
Perfect
Not for me. Pretty snobbish in a way. It intimates some of us are incapable of appreciating a particular type of player, which is nonsense
His performances have left something to be desired, even the player himself has recently said as much in interview. We'll all support him during the game at the match, but this isn't during the game at the match. The criticism is fair, and he has to improve, or his time at OT probably won't be for as long as he wants it too
There is a definite trend towards preferring a player who appears to be clocking up the mileage. It's the primary reason that a player like Tevez drew so much admiration, despite being ineffectual in many games.
I wrote the article before the Wolves game. A lot of things rang true. I'd say Berba was fairly peripheral (though he's lacking sharpness in fairness, and I didn't really see an outstanding attacking player for us on the night) but produced a moment of class for the third goal. Great players can produce moments like that. I'd prefer an attacker that can assist a goal or score one themselves out of nothing rather than someone who sweats for 90mins and does little else.
He definetly needs to improve, I'll give you that. He was average yesterday but you could tell he'd run out of puff towards the end. The 90 mins will do him the world of good.
Berbatov's best is yet to come?????
No shit, Sherlock!! Christ, even my wife would agree with that - and she knows sod all about football, she's a Spurs fan!
No shit, Sherlock!! Christ, even my wife would agree with that - and she knows sod all about football, she's a Spurs fan!
It depends on what a fan is looking for, so I can only speak for myself here.
I didn't want Berbatov to come here. He hasn't ever looked like a United player to me, and I'd seen a ton of him at Spurs from living in Tottenham. He is the consumate highlights player, as perfectly emphasised by some of the comments from last night. A nothing performance, but WOW what a touch for the third goal.
When we signed him I actually dearly hoped my own judgement was wrong (obviously). I thought there was a chance that he might light up this new stage he was being given. Perhaps he would control matches, dominate the opposition; or most importantly to achieve the job I think he was bought for, to knit together a midfield and forward line that haven't really gelled for about three seasons now (in spite of the trophies).
I think its difficult for anyone to conclude that any of the above has been achieved, so its unsurprising that most people consider him a failure.
It's hard to defend him at times and yesterday was definitely one of those times. I understand he's been out injured but it's no reason to walk around the pitch in a sulk, lambast the younger team mates and lose the ball and hardly try to win it back, like it's beneath him. You can only get away with such behavior if you're a Messi, Ronaldo, a Kaka of world football, delivering for your team on a weekly basis.
His performance reminded me of his game against CSKA when he also seemed to be in a foul mood all game. Use your anger and frustration as a way of driving you on Berba, don't let it do the opposite.
His performance reminded me of his game against CSKA when he also seemed to be in a foul mood all game. Use your anger and frustration as a way of driving you on Berba, don't let it do the opposite.
Judging from yesterday, I can see why people may say "highlights player" because he was pretty peripheral. But I think that was more down to being lacking in sharpness. A player who can pluck something from nothing is a good option and I'm sure he'd do it more consistently with a good run in the side.
If you look at Berbatov's PL goals record since he's come to England, it's not that dissimilar to Rooney's in the same period. He's also made a lot of assists. I think your summary is a bit harsh in all honesty.
His mood definetly soured by the end. And I know I sound like an eternal Berbatov apologist but I can see why he was frustrated. The service to him all night long was dire. He took up a couple of decent positions and on both occasions Evra and Valencia failed to pick him out.
By the end he was running on empty. That was his first 90 minutes in a long time.
Berbatov, in the season and a half he's been at United, playing against the top four or in the Champions League when has he made a significant contribution? When has he ran the game for us? Answer he hasn't, he's a passenger that slows up the play. A vast improvement is needed from him if he is still to be a United player next season.
That's no excuse for lambasting people for not being where he thought they were. And giving a sigh and rolling his eyes when Welbeck failed to interpret Berbas intention to let the ball run through his feet when he was about 1 yard closer to goal than him. Young players like him should be encouraged and corrected, not slated by senior pros for not being fecking mind readers. Then again, almost everyone that has played football knows that sometimes you snap at your teammates, not because they're shit or lazy or anything like that, but because of your own frustration. Senior pros, however, should know how to channel their aggression and frustration.
And why doesn't he shoot? Why does he have to flicky-dick it to someone, who is clearly covered by a multitude of bodies? We know he has a decent strike on him, why not take it on?
I'm being a bit harsh to him here, because I expect so much from him. And because I'm partly taking my frustration at our sirup-like attacking play yesterday. Oh well.
7 different people have nominated him for man of the match against Wolves. It seems some people expect very little of him. And then there are the 7 who voted for him.
WooooW. You should name and shame.
I didn't have him as one of my top 3. But I struggled to come up with a top 3 yesterday. We really didn't have any stand out performers.
Ronaldo consistently got nominated last season for fecking up everything that came his way and scoring one goal, Berbatov getting mentioned yesterday should be no surprise.
Except for Evra, De Laet and Carrick who all had very good matches. Coming forward we didnt many stand out performances but those 3 at the back did.
Yeah and I think those were the three that I put. Even so, they were stand out by virtue of the fact that it was all very ordinary fare indeed.
Not really 'shaming', everyone's entitled to their opinion. But for what it's worth:
R.Nilsson7, Narnar, McLovin & SER19 thought he was the 3rd best United player on the pitch
Raees & Abigail thought he was the 2nd best United player on the pitch
Buckooo1978 thought he was the best United player on the pitch
Not really 'shaming', everyone's entitled to their opinion. But for what it's worth:
R.Nilsson7, Narnar, McLovin & SER19 thought he was the 3rd best United player on the pitch
Raees & Abigail thought he was the 2nd best United player on the pitch
Buckooo1978 thought he was the best United player on the pitch
That's the thing. For Berbatov to be seen as having a good game, a couple of good touches suffice. It's crazy.
Ronaldo was a match winner. Pulled a rabbit out of the bag many times. Best player in the world. He is excused because of his consistent brilliance.
Berbatov? I'd love it if he was more consistent, but much as fans on here are backing him with barely tenable rationale, I'm thinking he won't end up doing the business for us.
And even if his transfer price was only, say, £15m, would you still expect a striker of his experience and past record to contribute so intermittently to a team that is inclined to attack? No.
Berbatov is a class player and offers the team something very different - those
of you who just mark players for running around like headless chickens chasing shadows
don't appreciate a top quality footballer when you see one, and would probably have complained about Cantona.......
of you who just mark players for running around like headless chickens chasing shadows
don't appreciate a top quality footballer when you see one, and would probably have complained about Cantona.......
There is no doubt the guy is a fantastic player, but he simply doesn't fit in to this team.
yeah like goals don't matter. If i was arsed to prove you wrong i'd find a nice quote from SAF who says something like "strikers are there to score goals" i no shocking.
It does seem that way at times, it’s like wine connoisseurs getting hard on’s over the Aroma.
Ermmm, nope i just never.
I dought Berbatov could have influenced in such a dramatic way like Cantona did.
Cantona would be sensational along side Rooney.
People need to stop the comparisons with Cantona.
YouTube - eric cantona top 10 goals
Check the goal at at 0:45 seconds in, lets see Berbatov show that kind of desire to get on the end of a cross, it wouldn't happen he'd be stood hands on hips near the end of the box. Or just watch any of the other goals and you'll see Berbatov is no Eric.
YouTube - eric cantona top 10 goals
Check the goal at at 0:45 seconds in, lets see Berbatov show that kind of desire to get on the end of a cross, it wouldn't happen he'd be stood hands on hips near the end of the box. Or just watch any of the other goals and you'll see Berbatov is no Eric.
You overreach yourself sir, and there are a good number of people on this forum who were neither an imagining of their mothers' nor in nappies when Cantona graced the Old Trafford turf.
And why even mention the name, for believe you me it does Berbatov no favours at all when people do so. One was a genuinely top class player who was at the heart of that perfect storm of ours, whilst the other can do classy things during a match although is yet to find his place at the club or this level after 14-15 months.
Berba has shown his pedigree when being the only shark in the sea down at Spurs, but now surrounded by other predators he's shrinking back from the all you can eat seafood buffet.
That's bullshit
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