They played well for van gal. But most of their injuries come from being in the wrong position and trying to recover.
Does anybody else think Smalling & Jones get too much stick?
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I call this the James Collins Effect. I don't think Jones is anywhere near as awful as Collins but it's hard to argue with anything you've said.
They're like Jean-Alain Boumsong and Titus Bramble, only with longer respective medical bills.
Of course, I might be being a little over-the-top with that comparison, although they do have the same propensity to slap the self destruct button in the same way the aforementioned duo did.
I'd be astonished if either of them are here next season, in all honesty. Without exaggerating or becoming pejorative, have we had a more limited player than Phil Jones? Or perhaps a better way of asking that is, have we ever persisted with a more limited player than Phil Jones?
Of course, I might be being a little over-the-top with that comparison, although they do have the same propensity to slap the self destruct button in the same way the aforementioned duo did.
I'd be astonished if either of them are here next season, in all honesty. Without exaggerating or becoming pejorative, have we had a more limited player than Phil Jones? Or perhaps a better way of asking that is, have we ever persisted with a more limited player than Phil Jones?
This has been totally obvious to anyone bar Caf for a very long time. If he was 10cm shorter, he wouldn't have had a career in football even in the low divisions.
There is one glaring in our squad right now.
Smalling played well under lvg because he had blind beside him. And only for the first half of the season anyway. He is a poor organiser and lacks any footballing intelligence. Blind helped organise and direct him so he didnt look retarded. Smalling and jones together means partnering 2 low intelligence, poor communicators both with poor leadership and with smalling a weak loser mentality that can implode at any time.
You dont win titles with weaklings. Lets trojan horse our rivals the way we weakened arsenal by selling welbeck to them.
You dont win titles with weaklings. Lets trojan horse our rivals the way we weakened arsenal by selling welbeck to them.
The biggest worry wasnt their lack of sharpness, it was how much panic they brought to our defence despite being experienced enough to not let it happen.
yeah they are coming back from a lay off, but you would expect the organisation to be better to help them out of that.
yeah they are coming back from a lay off, but you would expect the organisation to be better to help them out of that.
I still question any goalkeeper not plucking this out of his protected area any day.. Or at least trying to. But our Dave was rooted to the ground. And the ball traveled a long distance. But Smalldini and Cojones did their disapearing act to a flawless perfection..
Smalling is a defender who very awkward on the ball and I don't trust him one bit.
Jones is prone to making mistakes when he over-commits to challenges and is pretty rash.
Bailly, Blind & Rojo are far more intelligent that the two of them. Even Tuanzebe looked very calm and composed today. Can't wait for Smalling and Jones to be sold. The only reason we didn't concede more than 2 was because of De Gea. I don't think De Gea feels at ease when he's being covered by Jones and Smalling.
Jones is prone to making mistakes when he over-commits to challenges and is pretty rash.
Bailly, Blind & Rojo are far more intelligent that the two of them. Even Tuanzebe looked very calm and composed today. Can't wait for Smalling and Jones to be sold. The only reason we didn't concede more than 2 was because of De Gea. I don't think De Gea feels at ease when he's being covered by Jones and Smalling.
Jones has been good this season. I don't think it's fair to go on about his last injury because a broken toe caused by a team mate in training isn't the same as a self inflicted injury from reckless tackling.
Smalling is a good player but will always have the big negative of being terrible on the ball. Neither are great leaders.
One issue is they both like to play as the right sided centre back but Bailly is better than both of them there. One should be kept and the other sold. A left sided centre back should be the replacement. Hopefully someone experienced and capable of organising the defence.
Smalling is a good player but will always have the big negative of being terrible on the ball. Neither are great leaders.
One issue is they both like to play as the right sided centre back but Bailly is better than both of them there. One should be kept and the other sold. A left sided centre back should be the replacement. Hopefully someone experienced and capable of organising the defence.
Yes smalling. Hes worst in every aspect other than strength. Technically belongs in league one too.
Sell them both. Average defenders who are always injured
So we're gonna pretend like Bailly and Rojo would have prevented Xhaka's fluke of a goal?
Because Phil Jones is so often injured people like to invent a completely different player in their imagination when it comes to Phil Jones. People let the crawl he had against Arsenal two years ago define him even though it was actually a good play. Some people have an idea of Jones as a clumsy, slow, rash, brainless defender. But, really Bailly and Rojo are both more rash than Jones is; he is better on the ball than Smalling and around the same level as Bailly and Rojo; he has good pace and can play on the front foot. His injury history is obviously poor but, he is not the useless defender some here try to paint him as.
My issue with Jones is the injury record. We have these defensive injury crises season after season and he's a large part of why they occur. He's just not reliable enough. I'd give Smalling another season to turn it around as he was fairly good last year. Besides, I doubt we'd buy two centre halves in the same window.
Bailly and Rojo looked so much better and also Bailly and Blind did.
Smalling and Jones are not the worst CBs out there but if we can get some bucks I am all for selling them or at least one of them.
Smalling and Jones are not the worst CBs out there but if we can get some bucks I am all for selling them or at least one of them.
Isn't Smalling returning from a freak injury? I think this thread shows a fair indicator that they indeed, do get a bit to much stick. They are both capable, but it would be preferable if they could stay fit for longer.
Jones was making mistakes just before he got injured.
Rostov and Bournemouth spring to mind. So he's just simply continuing where he left off.
Smalling is an ok defender but just isn't good enough on the ball for this level IMO.
Bailly isn't great on the ball but compensates by having that intensity and pure physicality. Then, because you are putting Bailly in the CBs you ideally want someone alongside with some passing range otherwise you limit yourself - hence why Blind can partner him well.
Jones just can't rely on his body and is inconsistent - no doubt because he never really plays more than a few games on the trot.
I don't think either are crap but they fall into the already full pot of 'OK' players (Lingard, Smalling, Blind, Jones, Darmian)
Bailly isn't great on the ball but compensates by having that intensity and pure physicality. Then, because you are putting Bailly in the CBs you ideally want someone alongside with some passing range otherwise you limit yourself - hence why Blind can partner him well.
Jones just can't rely on his body and is inconsistent - no doubt because he never really plays more than a few games on the trot.
I don't think either are crap but they fall into the already full pot of 'OK' players (Lingard, Smalling, Blind, Jones, Darmian)
I'd sell Smalling and keep Jones. Even with his injury record, if we get another CB, we should be okay. There's Blind who can play there as well.
Arsenal aren't better than CFC, who we played with 10 men and conceded 1 goal.
What about LFC - they were one of the top scorers in the league. We did not concede 2 goals in any match against them.
When we leaked 4 goals against CFC...Smalling was playing.
When we leaked 2 goals against MCFC, was Smalling playing?
I'm sure if I look at the stats closely, looking for 2 more goals conceded, Smalling's name will pop up a lot.
I can go on, but you get the drift. You are making out as if AFC are Real Madrid. They are not.
Now regarding injuries - yes, the pair of them are sick notes and for that reason alone, should be disposed of. They won't make it at a big club because their bodies can't handle the rough and tumble of the EPL.
Nah sell both. I'll prefer to give Tuanzebe the position Jones has in the squad.
Does anyone think these two have lasted here this long because they are English? I can't help but feel if they weren't English they would of been offloaded a long time ago. Both are definitely not good enough for us if we want to get back to the top.
Our CB's shoould be Rojo, Baily, Tunz, New CB, Jones super backup.
They are still here because they impressed under Van Gaal which lead to them getting new contracts.
No, they get as much grief as they deserve. Smalling while very good at certain aspects of defending is actually quite brainless from a footballing point of view hence why he looks like Maldini next to Blind because he doesn't have to think for himself.
Jones is seemingly never fit or if he is cannot be relied upon because even if he manages a few games like this season he then gets long term injured again.
Every season we have a defensive crisis when our first choice defenders get injured and that's because our back up defenders are crocked as well.
Im amazed that both players are still on the books (Jones especially) after this length of time of being squad players. Would quite happily see both replaced in the squad by Tuanzebe/Keane or whoever is more reliable.
Jones is seemingly never fit or if he is cannot be relied upon because even if he manages a few games like this season he then gets long term injured again.
Every season we have a defensive crisis when our first choice defenders get injured and that's because our back up defenders are crocked as well.
Im amazed that both players are still on the books (Jones especially) after this length of time of being squad players. Would quite happily see both replaced in the squad by Tuanzebe/Keane or whoever is more reliable.
Can't believe that these two have been higher up in the pecking order than Blind this season when fit, goes to show that Jose rates brawn over brains. Would love it if our options going into next season are something like: Bailly, Van Dijk, Rojo, Tuanzebe and Blind. All perfect defenders for a back 2 or 3 and all fantastic on the ball.
We already have a backup in Blind. We don't need Jones.
Smalling was getting shed loads of praise about a year and a half ago, but his form has tailed off massively since then, he's also become very relaint on shirt pulling, something that with tightening up of laws on that has had a real affect on his game.
Jones before the start of this season, i would have happily sold him, he's had so many injury problems he cudn't be relied on, ad to that i think Fergie and Hodgson really messed upthe kid devleopment, jones's biggeest problem at centre back(besides injurys) has always been positioning, and whne you are getting played in 3 diffrent positions in a week, which was happening to Jones reguarly your its isnt going to help your positioning in one position, so those too issues had put jones so far back in his development, that i'd basically wrote him off.
This season, while Bailly may have been our best defender, our best partnership at the back was probably Rojo and Jones(i never thought i say that last year) and jones was playing well consistently, his positioning looked a lot better, and it was starting to look like he might hold his place for the long term..... then he got injured again.
To be honest going forward i'd probably keep Smalling another season and see if he can improve, and Loan out jones to see if he can find enough fittness to get through a season somewhere else, then make a decision on the two of them at that point.
Jones before the start of this season, i would have happily sold him, he's had so many injury problems he cudn't be relied on, ad to that i think Fergie and Hodgson really messed upthe kid devleopment, jones's biggeest problem at centre back(besides injurys) has always been positioning, and whne you are getting played in 3 diffrent positions in a week, which was happening to Jones reguarly your its isnt going to help your positioning in one position, so those too issues had put jones so far back in his development, that i'd basically wrote him off.
This season, while Bailly may have been our best defender, our best partnership at the back was probably Rojo and Jones(i never thought i say that last year) and jones was playing well consistently, his positioning looked a lot better, and it was starting to look like he might hold his place for the long term..... then he got injured again.
To be honest going forward i'd probably keep Smalling another season and see if he can improve, and Loan out jones to see if he can find enough fittness to get through a season somewhere else, then make a decision on the two of them at that point.
Yes, if they weren't English they would have never been bought. Never got the hype for either
Lots of revisionism on Jones.
The hype was very real when he broke through. Even with the serious knee injury he had a great 10/11 season with Rovers. I remember watching their 0-0 at the Emirates and he was unreal. First couple of seasons with us were business as usual. But over time injury, lack of progress, and ultimately seems to be regressing unfortunately.
Have to say Smalling I never really understood given his non-league background and lack of top flight performances. Then he won me over. Then he went backwards. Injuries aside his performances this season, even when we looked decent have been unconvincing. To be fair he's also had his share of injuries, but I never really felt it with him to start with.
Bailly should never have been our most reliable CB this season.
The hype was very real when he broke through. Even with the serious knee injury he had a great 10/11 season with Rovers. I remember watching their 0-0 at the Emirates and he was unreal. First couple of seasons with us were business as usual. But over time injury, lack of progress, and ultimately seems to be regressing unfortunately.
Have to say Smalling I never really understood given his non-league background and lack of top flight performances. Then he won me over. Then he went backwards. Injuries aside his performances this season, even when we looked decent have been unconvincing. To be fair he's also had his share of injuries, but I never really felt it with him to start with.
Bailly should never have been our most reliable CB this season.
The modern day center back is not just a guy who stops attacks. He is a guy who can also initiate and occassionally be a part of attacks.
Apart from being uncomfortable with the ball at their feet and the regular injury problems, this is where Smalling and Jones fail the quality test and its part of the reaaons why this United team hardly plays the 'soak the attack and hit on the counter' system well. The duo prefer to kick the ball out or play it sideways or back to the goal keeper rather than go forward.
Apart from being uncomfortable with the ball at their feet and the regular injury problems, this is where Smalling and Jones fail the quality test and its part of the reaaons why this United team hardly plays the 'soak the attack and hit on the counter' system well. The duo prefer to kick the ball out or play it sideways or back to the goal keeper rather than go forward.
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Shirt tugging has been a part of Smallings game for as long as he's been a United player.
Agree that Jones/Rojo was our best pairing. Bailly/Rojo was looking strong as well after Jones was injured again. Who knows what Rojo's status will be when he returns. My guess is he won't get a sniff and will be sold.
I'd not be upset if both Smalling and Jones were sold and keep Rojo and Blind as squad players.
We definitely need to keep Blind, he is so useful, and i thought he was vastly under-appreciated for the job he did at centre back, his partnership with Bailly looked very solid at the start of the season, and he out performed Smalling in the second half of last season.
As for Rojo, last i heard is he wouldn't be back till January ish? so defintly think we need to buy one solid centre back whose proved they are reliable at this level. Also think we need to keep one of Smalling and Jones, like i said i'd loan the other one out, and make a decision at the end of next season as to which one to keep.
As soon as Smalling leaves the club the people who defend him will finally realise he's mid table garbage. It's the same as Cleverly/Evans who had plenty of defenders and there was even some on here saying we should bring Fabio back and give him a chance, I wonder what game people watch at times.
Evans has played well for West Brom.
Yeah, he's found his level.
How does this disprove what I'm saying? I don't see his performances attracting elite clubs.
Pretty worried about the final with these two representing