as we know ourselves, that doesn't guarantee anything - not in the short term. Conte has worked wonders, but he's been helped by the fact his two best players have been there for a number of years, and massively underperformed last season.
Eden Hazard 16/17 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
as we know ourselves, that doesn't guarantee anything - not in the short term. Conte has worked wonders, but he's been helped by the fact his two best players have been there for a number of years, and massively underperformed last season.
Oh course not, fans rarely care when its other teams players taking it. It doesn't stop it being amusing though when suddenly after one match the most fouled player in the PL is suddenly a horrific diver who barely even gets fouled but is just an incredible actor.
To be honest I've no problem with Hazard, he can make a meal of things but lots of players do that. I think most are just pissed off that Herrera was sent off after 2 not so terrible tackles, seemingly because he's also at fault for his teammates fouling Hazard too. More peeved that it was shaping up to be a good game up until then.
The inconsistency from ref to ref is what's most infuriating, especially when it can happen in game too, not Chelsea's fault though by any means.
I think we're all about ready to just replace refs with robots and video screens to be honest. I know we grumble every season, but the standard this season has just been shocking.
How so? Don't think I've said anything outrageous, genuinely not trying to WUM here.
The second half of the season was pretty much a one man show. Costa was injured, Fabregas was badly out of form, and so Hazard was the only means through which Chelsea could score goals and get 3 points. The defense did very well, but you don't win the title by drawing every match 0-0.
You're discounting the way dybala dominated the 2015/16 serie A by saying it was becauae he was on a dominant team, while at the same time you're giving credit to hazard for making chelsea the dominant team in 2014/15. Don't you think that's a double standard?
Did you not see the 2nd half of the season that year? It's common knowledge he carried that team. The amount of points his goals/assists won us was mind-boggling.
It was park the bus & "give it to Eden" tactics for 5 straight months which is why @giorno is in here trying his best to discredit him.
Because for me Dybala isn't single-handedly elevating Juventus and pushing them towards the title the way that Hazard did in 14/15. Dybala is a brilliant player; honestly one of my favourites to watch, but if you take him out of that Juve side they still win the league at a canter.
You're absolutely correct. Dybala's a brilliant talent but you have to be deluded to think he's carrying anyone at Juventus. They just won 7 out of 8 Serie A games without him in the starting lineup for 8 straight games.
Hazard is overall a top 15/20 in the world, on current season performances he's probably top 10. How is that discrediting him?
Evidently you didn't follow them last season. They were garbage, until dybala decided they were no longer garbage. He absolutely carried them in a way similar to hazard with chelsea in 2014/15
This season, probably. Last season? No fecking way.
But doesn't really say much about the comparison, since juve are better team than chelsea this season. And hazard isn't exactly carrying them either.
@BlueCelery talking about hazard with you is pointless. We'll never agree, and that's that.
Terry was absolutely brilliant 2014/2015, massive disservice to him when trying to downplay his achievements that season. Hazard was world class that season but he had help. Costa was also there.
I think it's fair to make this assessment. I'd take Dybala over Hazard, think he's more talented and much more of a scorer.
One thing i don't understand with Dybala is while he's celebrating what exactly is he doing with his hand in his face?
Gladiator mask
haha, thanks.
You say that but they won by 9 points in the end. He certainly performed very well to get them out of the early season slump, but total his goals were worth 6 points. In 2014/15 Chelsea won the league by 8 points, with Hazard's goals being worth 13. Obviously this is a bit of a simplistic argument, but I stand by my point-I don't think Dybala has had to carry a team to the extent that Hazard has.
Regardless, Dybala also hasn't had to deal with being just about the sole creative outlet for his team; he's always been surrounded by top attacking players to help alleviate that burden. Hazard hasn't had that luxury.
Dybala is nowhere near as talented as Hazard. No idea why anyone would even compare the two considering they're completely different players.
Well that's putting it lightly, isn't it? And yes, Costa's antics were silly. But I wouldn't blame him much, considering how often Rojo left a foot on him in that game. Between Valencia, Herrera and Rojo, somebody on your team deserved to be sent off tbvh. But aye, I guess it's perfectly fine.
It is a simplistic argument as you say. Dybala carried them out of the slump almost single-handedly and then for quite a bit afterwards. It was the other way around compared to hazard in 14/15. Hazard had to carry the team in the second half of the season, dybala carried them from October to February.
And yes, Dybala was pretty much juventus sole creative outlet for half the season. Pogba only started to play really well in December. This season Dybala isn't scoring as much because he's playing as a CAM. There's a huge difference in the attacking output of juventus with or without him.
All in all, i'd say hazars is having a better season but they're both among the 15/20 best players in the world in terms of overall ability, with hazard arguably top 10 in terms of performances this season
To me they are similar in being forward/midfielder hybrids with extremely high structural intelligence and a big influence on their team's overall attacking game through their decisions on the field. When I saw Dybala play as a CAM, he really played like a midfielder in a very impressive fashion.
You probably know that I rate Hazard higher than most here, but that's no reason to downplay Dybala's talent. I haven't seen him remotely as often as Hazard, but my impression was that he's definitely on the same level talent-wise. There are also almost three years age difference between them, so Dybala is still some months younger now than Hazard was at the beginning of his 14/15 POTY season.
This phantom Hazard one man show of 14/15 is that famous no one actually remembers the fecker.
Good player but not in the very best bracket
Good player but not in the very best bracket
Fair enough. I think they're closer than some others in the thread seem to, but I'd still have Hazard personally.
Or hell, if Tianjian are actually going to pony up £120m as has been reported for Costa, I'd be quite happy to offer most of that to Juve for Dybala. Hazard and Dybala in the same team would be filthy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...g-stellar-season-champions-elect-Chelsea.html
History speaks different. That's all that matters, not what you and I remember on a forum.
When players like Hazard cheat continuously, throw themselves to the floor continuously from little to no contact in an attempt to get opposition players booked or sent off, then I see no problem with opposition players giving him a genuine reason to hit the floor.
Let the biter be bit.
Let the biter be bit.
Right? How much does this place rave about Suarez and neymar?
The problem with Herrera isn't just that it was 10 seconds after Jones' foul - it's that the ref had literally just warned the captain that targetting Hazard needs to stop.
"The referee must also recognize when a single opponent has become the target of fouls by multiple players. As above, upon recognizing the pattern, the referee should clearly indicate that the pattern has been observed and that further fouls against this opponent must cease. If another player commits a foul against the targeted opponent, that player must be cautioned but, in this case, the misconduct should be reported as unsporting behavior, as must any subsequent caution of any further foul against that same targeted opponent."
http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation....chael-oliver-chelsea-manchester-united-fa-cup
So whether it was right or wrong, it wasn't just because the foul itself was a bookable one.
And when players give him reason to hit the floor, have some brains and give the ref a shout. Lets!
Right? How much does this place rave about Suarez and neymar?
The problem with Herrera isn't just that it was 10 seconds after Jones' foul - it's that the ref had literally just warned the captain that targetting Hazard needs to stop.
"The referee must also recognize when a single opponent has become the target of fouls by multiple players. As above, upon recognizing the pattern, the referee should clearly indicate that the pattern has been observed and that further fouls against this opponent must cease. If another player commits a foul against the targeted opponent, that player must be cautioned but, in this case, the misconduct should be reported as unsporting behavior, as must any subsequent caution of any further foul against that same targeted opponent."
http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation....chael-oliver-chelsea-manchester-united-fa-cup
So whether it was right or wrong, it wasn't just because the foul itself was a bookable one.
And when players give him reason to hit the floor, have some brains and give the ref a shout. Lets!
The difference being people don't try and pretend they are "drawing fouls". They say it as it is, they dive, none of this drawing fouls bollocks.
The reason Hazard is considered quite such a prodigious talent is because he's outshone everyone around him in his age group since he was a kid. Take a quite look at the personal honours for Dybala..
Ok, that's promising. Now look at Hazards..
- UNFP Ligue 1 Player of the Year (2): 2010–11, 2011–12
- UNFP Ligue 1 Young Player of the Year (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
- UNFP Ligue 1 Team of the Year (3): 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011–12
- UNFP Player of the Month (3): March 2010,[287] March 2011,[288] March 2012
- Premier League Player of the Season (1): 2014–15[289]
- FWA Footballer of the Year (1): 2014–15
- PFA Players' Player of the Year (1): 2014–15
- PFA Young Player of the Year (1): 2013–14
- PFA Team of the Year (3): 2012–13,[290] 2013–14,[291] 2014–15[292]
- ESM Team of the Year: 2014–15[293]
- Chelsea Player of the Year (2): 2013–14, 2014–15[294]
- Chelsea Players' Player of the Year (1): 2014–15[294]
- UEFA Best Player in Europe Award: 2015 – 6th place[295]
- FIFA Ballon d'Or: 2015 – 8th place
- Bravo Award (1): 2011[19]
- Chelsea Goal of the Year: 2015–16 vs. Tottenham Hotspur[296]
- Premier League Player of the Month (1): October 2016[221]
In terms of pure skills, Hazard doesn't have a ceiling that we've seen so far. On his imperious best, he can utterly dominate games, dribbling past half a team and making it look easy. The only real question mark over him is his mentality, and whether he actually wants it enough to push onto the very highest level. It became a joke here a while ago that 'Hazard could have done x, if he wanted to' but in footballing terms the sad thing is its actually true.
For Chelsea fans its actually probably a good thing that he doesn't have the hunger of Messi or Ronaldo, because realistically if he did he'd have been off to Real or Barca already. Talent wise though there is no-one other than Messi with his pure ability.
I'm sure everyone will have great fun now taking the piss out of that, but having watched him basically every game he's played for the last 5 years I'm more than happy to stand by it.
Hey, I'm probably the last one you need to convince of Hazard's talent. I'm well aware of his history as a standout talent and contrary to many others I think he is already near the top among the elite players in the world. I perhaps even think more of his mentality than you, because I don't think it's much of an issue.
It just seems to me that Dybala's talent has gone a bit under the radar for different reasons. And I'm quite convinced the perception of him as a player will change drastically in the coming years. It's not so much about awards (they say more about public perception than ability), but what I see on the pitch, so it's hard to prove. We'll see what happens.
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It's telling that all the Chelsea fans are trying to persuade us how good he is..
When a player is that good you don't need all that bullshit to twist your arm.
As said he's never had a Ronaldo Bale or Suarez season in the PL. He's also been anonymous like last year.
Just not in the same bracket as the very best sadly.
@Kentonio keep in mind dybala has been in Italy since 2012 and that serie A individual awards don't have much consideration. Also keep in mind that the talent level in serie A since 2014 has been quite a bit higher than it was in france when hazard played for lille, and dybala spent 3 seasons at palermo, the first of which he played little and the second was in serie B
...he's never had a Cristiano Ronaldo or Suarez season?Did you sleep through 2014/15?
Did you sleep through 2014/15?
I'm just being honest. People remember the top defining seasons without the need for all this.
Good player but not a great.
This is utter nonsense. Also, he's not a pure goal scorer but his 14/15 season is on par with what Suarez did at Liverpool where he scored tons of goals against poor sides for a team that didn't win anything. Agreed that Ronaldo and Bale have put up better individual seasons though.
Not really, no. Hazard's 2014/15 really can't be compared to suarez 2013/14. It's really not close. It can be compared with Bale 2012/13 however
Eh, agree to disagree then I suppose. 12 of Suarez's 31 goals game against the three sides that got relegated that year. 4 more came against WBA and Hull, who finished 16th and 15th. He scored zero goals against any other top 4 side. For me it doesn't compare to Ronaldo or Bale, who scored against other big teams and didn't inflate their numbers artificially to the extent that Suarez did against bottom feeders.
Thought he had a very, very good first half vs Palace. Even then he didn't come close to scoring and I'm not saying that as a slight, just an observation, because he was basically the instigator for all the good chances we had. I think unless he's next to someone who's as talented and willing to take on the creative burden, we'll never see the goalscoring output from him that people almost expect. Most of the time he's way too involved in the buildup play to be getting into the danger areas enough.
I don't think it particularly matters because as long as someone is carving open the opposition and someone else is there to finish it's good enough for the team...but with today's obssession with stats he'll suffer for that.
Also thought the interplay with Fabregas positioned further forward was some of the best we've had. Both were on similar wavelengths (and had the necessary technical ability to get the passes through to each other in tight areas).
I don't think it particularly matters because as long as someone is carving open the opposition and someone else is there to finish it's good enough for the team...but with today's obssession with stats he'll suffer for that.
Also thought the interplay with Fabregas positioned further forward was some of the best we've had. Both were on similar wavelengths (and had the necessary technical ability to get the passes through to each other in tight areas).
Costa was shambolic yesterday and he's been utter dross since the China rumors.
I don't care what people think he really is feckin class. I still wish we would have signed him several years ago. I'd have him over Sanchez.