England Discussion | Finish 4th

Although not English, I'm rooting for United players and Ronaldo, So happy to see England win.

I thought England played well and created enough chances. Compared to how other big teams have played, also considering the age and experience of English players I thought it was a good result which could host the morale and help the young ones improve their performance.
Unlike the usual last my minute winner or equaliser by opposition it was a last months winner. Glad to see England play football and not hoofball for a change.
 
I thought Loftus-Cheek should have come on for Alli as soon as he started struggling with injury in the first half. It was Alli's injury that caused the drop off in performance.

Prior to that point they couldn't handle the movement of Lingard and Alli and we were getting in easily. After the injury Alli couldn't move properly and Lingard became easier to mark as a knock-on effect of that. The lack of options after Alli got injured also showed why we certainly can't play with Dier and Henderson in this set up, there just simply aren't enough passing options ahead of them to play two holders. You'd need someone as good at carrying the ball as Hazard to create anything worthwhile.

Sterling certainly needs to do more in that role. I thought he looked pretty sharp in the warm up game against Nigeria but nothing at all was coming off for him last night. I'd still give him a start against Panama but another performance like that and he really doesn't warrant starting in from of Rashford.

But all in all there was a lot to be optimistic about, quarter finals is about where this England team should be in my opinion. Anything more than that would be a huge bonus and anything less a disappointment.
 
The only change I would make is Rose for Young, no point swapping anything else. Yes Sterling was poor but if he can get him playing like we know he can he will be a huge asset for us in this tournament. Worth 1 more game.

If we get the 3pts vs Panama then make a few more - certainly start Vardy in a game where we don't expect to dominate possession.
 
I wasn't impressed with Henderson last night, I feel like when we started get bogged down he was setting the tone with backwards and sideways passing, all done very slowly. It set the tone and even when he had quite a bit of time he was just laying it off rather than trying to turn and move us forward. This England side would significantly improve with a more technical, forward thinking player in that position, someone like a Carrick.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Indeed.



Welbeck can only dream of having a season like Sterling did in the league this season for City. Welbeck has been considerably better for England, however.



They matched us up in the second half and we struggled to break through, the same happened against Nigeria in the recent friendly, although in both games our back line was untroubled when they matched us up (Nigeria scored their only decent chance of the game). The good thing is that this England side is exceptional at set pieces which could be invaluable in tournament football with the tight and cagey games you often get.

@Ecstatic

How was it a lucky win? We dominated the game by every metric outside of the scoreline.
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The second half has showed your limits in terms of chances created and creativity.

Have you seen the defence of Tunisia on set-pieces :lol:, which enabled you to score.. at the last minute?
 
Ecstatic said:
The second half has showed your limits in terms of chances created and creativity.

Have you seen the defence of Tunisia on set-pieces :lol:, which enabled you to score.. at the last minute?
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Considering we should have had 2 penalties from their set piece marking... the referee didn't even bother with VAR. What a joke.
 
I thought we did ok. Their penalty was bollocks and we should have had one our own plus we hit the bar and post and missed multiple chances in the first half on another day we would have scored 4 or 5 goals.
 
Norris said:
Pleasantly surprised with how England played. Maybe Replace Sterling with Rashford and Maguire with Jones for the next one ? I wasn't at all impressed with Maguire's passing from the back really. He gave the ball away in really dangerous areas. Sterling was almost non-existent for the majority of the match.
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Are you serious :lol: Maguire carried the ball forward really well. Yes he made a few sloppy passes but that's the risk of playing this way.

Jones is nowhere near good enough to play like that. He has zero composure on the ball when pressed.
 
It’s the first game in this WC were I thought the refereeing was very poor. Luckily it did not affect the result.The ref was a total pushover and didn’t apply VAR correctly. I’ve thought VAR has been a positive development in this WC but it has to be applied consistently to work.
 
Sterling needs to be dropped and I'm not sure what he's done to have actually started the game in the first place, as it's glaringly obvious. He was the worst player in the warm up games and last night during the opening 20 minutes when we were creating chances, he was the only forward player not to contribute anything positive at all. Even Ali who had a really poor game was at least capable of not fecking up every single attack he got involved in.

I can't help suspect now that Sterling wouldn't be in the team if it wasn't for the internet do gooder brigade making criticism of him into a race issue.
 
Aint gota Kalou said:
The only change I would make is Rose for Young, no point swapping anything else. Yes Sterling was poor but if he can get him playing like we know he can he will be a huge asset for us in this tournament. Worth 1 more game.

If we get the 3pts vs Panama then make a few more - certainly start Vardy in a game where we don't expect to dominate possession.
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Why? Young was one of our best players. His crossing caused havoc.

I think after yet another insepid performance from Sterling we will see Rashford start ahead of him against Panama.
 
The population argument when people are debating expectations and winning tournaments falls apart when you consider Holland have been to 3 WC finals and won 1 EC. Spain has a population of about 45 million and Portugal about 11 million.

To me its definitely the grass roots coaching that needs to get better. Yes Im aware England does well at youth levels but its definitely quality over quality and quantity.
 
ivaldo said:
Why? Young was one of our best players. His crossing caused havoc.

I think after yet another insepid performance from Sterling we will see Rashford start ahead of him against Panama.
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I always think Young does well on an individual level but having no left footer on that side of the pitch hinders us. He didn't get in behind as much as Rose would. Just feel that in spite of him not playing as well as Young personallyy, he would balance the team better.
 
England unsurprisingly looked like a work in progress but the good outweighed the bad and they got the job done in the face of some dubious refereeing. The two negatives were the finishing and the descent into slow-paced stodge in the second half faced with 10 men behind the ball. Looking on the bright side, they are unlikely to face such an ultra-defensive team again in this tournament. As for finishing, the likes of Sterling and Lingard are unlikely to improve in that area, which makes it likely England will fall just short in one of the knockout rounds.

The biggest positive though is watching England without tearing your hair out about why some unfit or over the hill big name gets picked every game and is never substituted.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Are you serious :lol: Maguire carried the ball forward really well. Yes he made a few sloppy passes but that's the risk of playing this way.

Jones is nowhere near good enough to play like that. He has zero composure on the ball when pressed.
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Do you mean the time when Maguire was needlessly holding onto the ball for too long, got so easily dispossessed near his own box, with almost no cover? Or the time, he attempted a cross field pass (Not even a diagonal or a forward thinking one at that, but basically from a Left sided Centre back to a Right Sided Centre back), and was easily intercepted. Both of them could have been really dangerous had the Tunisians not fecked up.

Going forward, risk taking is absolutely fine and yeah, Maguire did do that too. But what is the point of taking a risk that actually serves no purpose whatsoever like the one's I highlighted ? That is poor decision making which higher quality teams are likely to punish.

And it is absolutely not necessary that all three centre backs have to be Pique's on the ball right ? Jones can bring the ball forward when he wants to. He has that in his locker. Yeah, his passing is inconsistent and does sometimes lack composure when pressed, but you can move him to the heart of the defence and have Stones take up Maguire's position. That way, the burden of finding a forward pass from the back falls largely falls on the players either side of him. Stones is really good on the left side from what I have seen from Man City with the ball.
 
Norris said:
Do you mean the time when Maguire was needlessly holding onto the ball for too long, got so easily dispossessed near his own box, with absolutely no cover? Or the time, he attempted a cross field pass (Not even a diagonal or a forward thinking one at that, but basically from a Left sided Centre back to a Right Sided Centre back), and was easily intercepted. Both of them could have been really dangerous had the Tunisians not fecked up.

Going forward, risk taking is absolutely fine and yeah, Maguire did do that too. But what is the point of taking a risk that actually serves no purpose whatsoever like the one's I highlighted ? That is poor decision making which higher quality teams are likely to punish.

And it is absolutely not necessary that all three centre backs have to be Pique's on the ball right ? Jones can bring the ball forward when he wants to. He has that in his locker. Yeah, his passing is inconsistent and does sometimes lack composure when pressed, but you can move him to the heart of the defence and have Stones take up Maguire's position. That way, the burden of finding a forward pass from the back falls largely falls on the players either side of him. Stones is really good on the left side from what I have seen from Man City with the ball.
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Yes he made 2 errors in 90 minutes, I've said as much. But he was positive overall, especially in the 2nd half. He carried the ball forward into space really well.

His dominance in the air also won us the game assisting Kane, Jones wouldn't have done that.

I prefer Maguire over Jones in this team.
 
Maguire was fine.

Was very surprised Cahill didn't start though. Think he will be needed in knock outs as England lack an experienced voice in there with the three they had last night.
 
slyadams said:
I wasn't impressed with Henderson last night, I feel like when we started get bogged down he was setting the tone with backwards and sideways passing, all done very slowly. It set the tone and even when he had quite a bit of time he was just laying it off rather than trying to turn and move us forward. This England side would significantly improve with a more technical, forward thinking player in that position, someone like a Carrick.
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This is exatcly my problem with him - he has no ability to take risks. Slow and safe is going to get us punished. I would have take Wilshere to Russia.
 
Sterling 100% should be dropped now.

I think he played well against Italy in the World Cup opener in 2014, and then hasn't played well for England since.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Yes he made 2 errors in 90 minutes, I've said as much. But he was positive overall, especially in the 2nd half. He carried the ball forward into space really well.

His dominance in the air also won us the game assisting Kane, Jones wouldn't have done that.

I prefer Maguire over Jones in this team.
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That's sort of my point. 2 Errors which better teams might have punished.2 very needless errors. I am not saying Jones is infallible. Infact, I don't think any of the England centre backs are. But you do have to weigh the risks each players carry. I would still like to see him play a game, maybe the third one if/when England have indeed qualified. Cahill is also not a bad option, but that again depends on the team England faces.
 
Hazard would very much enjoy Phil Jones starting the third game.
 
We were good. Exciting in the first half, there's an argument we played the best football. But there was a time in the second half when we seemed to have no ideas. It didn't help when most of the decisions were going to Tunisia and they were awarded one of the softest penalties you will see but it was clear our heads dropped.

For me the substitutions should have came 10 minutes earlier as we were doing nothing. Overall though you have to say it was a good performance and deserved win, I was proud of England when usually in the World Cup you're just fecking disgusted and embarassed.
 
Ban said:
Never really liked England NT, mainly cause of the hype surrounding it, without any base. But one thing I love England and English football for is the passion and love you guys have for football. In Croatia we used to be really mental about our NT (now not so much, at least that's my feeling) and England NT is the one team which is similar in that part. Fans, singing, celebrations of goals and wins.. Mental. :)
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Same thing with Serbia, since we became shite, people don't seem to care as much anymore.
 
I was positively surprised by England. They played good football until Tunisia got the pen and then decided to shut up shop and play for draw for the next hour. The second half was hard solely because of Tunisia's unwillingness to let more than 3 players leave their half.

I thought the centre backs did really well and helped carry the ball well up the pitch. Southgate's philosophy has merit. Also both our goals came from headers these CBs won. Kane looks sharp and despite his misses Lingard's movement was very good. Henderson is a bit slow in transitioning play in midfield, we know that already, but I thought he did a sterling job of pushing up high and helping to win the ball and recycling possession while minimising errors. Trippier was a constant thorn for them on the right side and gets lots of credit.

I thought Sterling and Dele were a bit disappointing though. Didn't really offer much in attack and surrender possession a bit too often. Rashford and Loftus-Cheek were a breath of fresh air when they came on. I still reckon Vardy is deserving of a place up front more than the others.

Overall, quite pleased.
 
I thought England's performance was a lot like France's: Both teams started very strongly but got a bit knocked off course by unexpected setbacks. At least in our case it was a cheap penalty going against us, the French just seemed to fade when the Aussies didn't crumble under their early pressure.

To some extent inconsistent performances are to be expected from such young squads. Both England and France lack experienced winners who can help the youngsters ride out sticky moments. Yeah, a few of the England squad have won Premier Leagues but there's no battle hardened players like Sergio Ramos in our 23.

What's positive is that the boys managed to dig out the result in the end. That will hopefully give them a bit of confidence going forward, help them manage setbacks with less nervousness about being able to get the job done.
 
Norris said:
That's sort of my point. 2 Errors which better teams might have punished.2 very needless errors. I am not saying Jones is infallible. Infact, I don't think any of the England centre backs are. But you do have to weigh the risks each players carry. I would still like to see him play a game, maybe the third one if/when England have indeed qualified. Cahill is also not a bad option, but that again depends on the team England faces.
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That's the risk of playing forward progressive football. If you want players to play safe and backwards / sideways pass like Jones does at United then that's fine, but we'll never progress playing like that.

Yes Maguire messed up but he did more good than bad IMO.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Sterling 100% should be dropped now.

I think he played well against Italy in the World Cup opener in 2014, and then hasn't played well for England since.
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His record for England is poor. I don’t understand why we’re playing a winger in the striker position with Vardy on the bench.

I don’t particularly like Lingard and Dele in midfielder 3 either.
 
First 25 minutes were great, played with confidence and energy closing down, but that's difficult to do for 90 minutes. Once the penalty when in you could see the confidence drain from players, Alli looked like he picked up an injury and was playing 75% which effected all the players.

Sterling had a bad game but still a big talent! Should have brought Rashford and RLC on earlier IMO.

Only one left footed player for England last night...and that was Pickford! Slightly worrying imbalance.
 
K2K said:
England disapointed me in the second. They can play much better than they did.

But the fact that they pulled of the win is impressive though.
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Scraping past championship quality opposition in the last minute isn't that impressive.

We won though which is what matters.

Panama game will be attack v defence training.

Real test will be against Belgium and next round.

Expanding the world cup has made some of the groups very easy. Like the CL.
 
Mb194dc said:
Scraping past championship quality opposition in the last minute isn't that impressive.

We won though which is what matters.

Panama game will be attack v defence training.

Real test will be against Belgium and next round.

Expanding the world cup has made some of the groups very easy. Like the CL.
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I think Tunisia are tricky customers. Especially because they are very skilled in the dark arts.

I think the group stages have been harder this year, look at how many big teams are struggling. I expect a number of shocks in this round.
 
#07 said:
I thought England's performance was a lot like France's: Both teams started very strongly but got a bit knocked off course by unexpected setbacks. At least in our case it was a cheap penalty going against us, the French just seemed to fade when the Aussies didn't crumble under their early pressure.

To some extent inconsistent performances are to be expected from such young squads. Both England and France lack experienced winners who can help the youngsters ride out sticky moments. Yeah, a few of the England squad have won Premier Leagues but there's no battle hardened players like Sergio Ramos in our 23.

What's positive is that the boys managed to dig out the result in the end. That will hopefully give them a bit of confidence going forward, help them manage setbacks with less nervousness about being able to get the job done.
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Not likely, playing Walker in 3 man central defense is madness. Maguire, Stones, Walker is an accident waiting to happen. There was signs of it already against Tunisia.

You either play Walker or Trippier, you can't play both just to accommodate.
Young can't defend to save his life and hes not that good going forward, no pace anymore.

People should not get their hopes up, it is going to be comical when this defence comes up against top quality attacking players.
 
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First half played okay. Second half they were awful IMO.

Rashford and RLC should start the next game.
 
American here with no horse in the race...I always want to see England do well, both because of United players and supporting players from the EPL in general, so I'm happy that Kane got that winner.

Wasn't able to watch the match...how'd the United boys do?
 
What you are all forgetting is that the World Cup is about gaining momentum. The teams that start off like a house on fire, rarely win the whole thing. This was England's first game. The result was far more important than the performance. As they play more games, they will become more cohesive and the chances will go in.......I hope.

As a side note, personally I don't believe in a captain "leading by example" as the pundits faun over Kane. A captain would have told the team to pick up the pace second half and encouraged the players verbally. Dare I say it Henderson from the middle of the park. Vociferous and encouraging. Is the Captain not the Manager's man on the pitch?

Good result and promising performance. Onwards and upwards.
 
Funny how deep the anti-English rhetoric runs in that some people can't even admit England played very well for the first half hour. Lingard should have scored at least two, possibly three. We were the better side by just about every metric.

Again, the second half was poor and the penalty (which was dubious) knocked the wind out of the side, but there's very little reason to be negative outside of bitterness or agenda.

As for the team, I'd bring in Rashford for Sterling against Panama. Sterling has fluffed his lines in recent weeks and I think Rashford merits a shot at it, especially against weaker opposition. I'd also swap out Young for Rose, a change I would have made prior to yesterday's team. It's already been said but on numerous occasions the ball was there to be whipped in first time and Young had to check back. It causes an imbalance.
 
I like watching this England team - that in itself is something that Southgate deserves enormous credit for. Without the penalty out of nowhere it would have been a very comfortable victory I suspect. As it was we struggled to break down a 9 man defence which is to be expected really. I'm looking forward to our next game and something tells me we might actually beat a really big side at this world cup. We'll learn a lot from the Belgium game.

Only negative that springs to mind is I felt Southgate took maybe 10 minutes too long to make a change.

I'd keep the same side for Panama apart from Rashford for Sterling. Assuming we win I'd then change it up a bit for the Belgium game, as it doesn't seem to be hugely important whether we finish 1st or 2nd looking at the potential opposition.
 
Roux said:
This is exatcly my problem with him - he has no ability to take risks. Slow and safe is going to get us punished. I would have take Wilshere to Russia.
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I think if fit (and could stay fit) Wilshere would play there and would have done for years. He's more comfortable further forward, but I think he's good enough to play at the base.
 
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