England Discussion | Finish 4th

Judas said:
Overachieved. Without a midfield, a young side, did brilliantly.

Looked like a few were carrying injuries, especially Kane, who looked frankly off for the entire game.

We can be proud. Just hope we can match this or go better before I die :lol:
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If he was injured then he shouldn't have played.
 
Croatia deserved winners. Easily the better team after the first 30 mins. Hopefully they can go toe to toe with France after playing 90+ minutes more than them.

I never thought this 3-5-1-1 formation suited England. Kane played in midfield all tournament which limited his impact on goal aside from set pieces. Actually it was more of a 5-4-1 formation with Kane and Henderson acting as a double pivot. Never really liked the formation given our best players are fast and like to play on the last man


But - if there ever was a game to play this formation... It was this one! And yet somehow it didn't work. Or maybe it did, Modric was fairly quiet. Rakitic less so, but not the game winner. But Kane failing to get on the ball (to bring in Lingard and Alli) was fatal, and Croatia crowded out our attack. What can you do.. 4-6-0?

You can only beat what's ahead of you and the semi final didn't flatter England. Can't think of anyone else that deserved it more... Although perhaps Belgium should have got to the final.

Role on 2020 and 2022
 
Tournament ratings:

Pickford 9- Grew as it went on. Great saves in all knock out games. Massive plus given the doubts about him before everything kick off. England's keeper for next 10 years.

Walker 7- O.k. Fulfilled the tactical role but we saw his limitations when he actually had to do some actual defending in the box, a John Terry, Carragher or Rio would've relished defending in that second half, not part of Walker's skillsuit. Interested to see his role going forward as Trippier is automatic selection now.

Stones 7- Alright but always feel there's a lack of concentration imminent and brutally punished tonight.

Maguire 8- Cult hero. Wonderful tournament.

Young 7- Good tournament although think his ageing legs started to give up.

Trippier 9- Magnificent. Scored goals, made goals, defended well. Can't ask for more really. Should be in team of the tournament.

Dele Alli 5- Worst regular player for England imo, yes poorer than Sterling. Seemed injured all the time and not really sure of his role anyway, just dosen't seem as good a fit for England as Spurs.

Lingard 7- Excellent v Sweden. Fine in other games. Place may come under threat in next year though for more creative options rather than runners in midfield.

Henderson 7- Think he gets a lot of unfair stick mainly due to the club he plays for but his job was to hold his position and help out at back four and he did that fine. Imagine Dier starting as the DM.......!

Sterling 6- Better in games than the scapegoating he got. Loses a mark for his usual abysmal finishing.

Kane 7.5- Strange tournament. Will likely get golden boot. 5 goals were v Tunisia and Panama and he pretty much disappeared from Colombia and Croatia games as they went on. I do think he picked up injury that restricted him though. Probably due to being rushed back end of last season.

Usual subs

Dier 5- Scored the famous penalty but woeful in normal play.

Rose 6- Decent when he came on. Unlucky not to start.

Rashford 6- Bit of reality check for Redcafe. Don't get me wrong I think he's a tremendous young talent but as with Martial lad has still a fair bit to learn about game understanding at crucial moments. Some of his runs were a bit limited tonight for example.

Vardy N/A- Didn't do anything and didn't take penalty v Colombia.

Welbeck.....was dreaming of an Eder moment to wipe this site off the net. Alas.....
 
TheGame said:
Not at all. Part of the process is people reaching their potential. Another midfielder is a definite and maybe one more center back. We have some great talent coming through the youth teams, hope they can step.up.
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Well we couldnt defend today, lost the midfield battle and our attackers wasted their chances.

So those are the areas to improve on
 
Was gutted after the game. But we can be proud of the team's performance. I know people have said we didn't play anyone good, but that argument doesn't really stand up when you see good sides not even make it out of the group. Also, historically England have been terrible against the so called "small" teams. The truth is there are no easy games in the World Cup, every game is a potential upset.

Was great while it lasted. Hope the team gets a good welcome home.

Pogba to score in the final. :devil:
 
Feels like a community shield game at this point, play the lads who didn’t get many minutes.
 
Roy Keane made a good point. This will probably go down as our best chance to win a world cup for a while. The chances of the big teams being this weak are slim.
 
All this talking of learning is nonsense.

You dont have that luxury at international level like you do in club football.

The team and the tactics even for the euros will be unrecognisable.

The team did us proud and massively overachieved. But the opportunity we had here today in that first half we will liekly never get again.

Its such a strange feeling of pride and shame.
 
I think I'm all football'd out. Have no interest in watching anymore footy atm.

It'll probably change when United hit pre-season (even though I'm very pessimistic when it comes to our upcoming season with José) but, as for now, I don't think I'll even watch the final, nevermind our 3rd place playoff. I'm pooped.
 
Yagami said:
I think I'm all football'd out. Have no interest in watching anymore footy atm.

It'll probably change when United hit pre-season (even though I'm very pessimistic when it comes to our upcoming season with José) but, as for now, I don't think I'll even watch the final, nevermind our 3rd place playoff. I'm pooped.
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Yeah I’m done. Emitionally exhausted
 
Square pegs (Alli, Sterling), round holes (CM, CF). Same old England, just with worse players and better PR.
 
Bronze cup final ? The most pointless game in the history of football. ( I know that no-one is asking me but i'm telling you anyway)
 
I've genuinely enjoyed football over the past few weeks for the first time in a long, long time. It's been a good experience in so many ways.

I teach primary school children and spent yesterday afternoon in the hall chanting 'it's coming home' with 400 kids. I've had some cracking sessions on the booze to boot.

We weren't remotely good enough tonight, mind. Completely outplayed second half. But football has been enjoyable again, which is a far cry from recent experience. Bring on the new season...
 
Yagami said:
I think I'm all football'd out. Have no interest in watching anymore footy atm.

It'll probably change when United hit pre-season (even though I'm very pessimistic when it comes to our upcoming season with José) but, as for now, I don't think I'll even watch the final, nevermind our 3rd place playoff. I'm pooped.
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That will all change when Betis live stream Inui's first training session next week.;)
 
I'll readily confess to being one of those "bitter" Irish followers who holds a deep hope that the three lions don't roar too loud but having watched England through various tournaments throughout the decades, I have seen you lot left despondent by expectations that were never met and hugely embarrassed by the boorish hooligan element that smashed their way into every unfortunate host country causing mayhem wherever they go and generally leaving the true honest supporters ashamed by the fact that they have to be linked with that lot. I know you've all felt a lot of bitter animosity towards the national side and certain element of supporters.

So even despite the run-in you've had and the success you've experienced on the pitch, it's nice to see English fans for once have the opportunity to leave the competition with their heads held high and pride in the team. Not only has your team displayed, whatever about the teams they've faced, a lot of heart and determination but your fans in Russia have, from what I've seen anyway, behaved well and have backed the team until the end. I know that this team is typically a harbinger of recrimination so I hope you can all enjoy the feelgood factor coming off the back of this and feel some renewed hope about England. And that's coming from an Irishman.
 
FootballHQ said:
Tournament ratings:

Pickford 9- Grew as it went on. Great saves in all knock out games. Massive plus given the doubts about him before everything kick off. England's keeper for next 10 years.

Trippier 9- Magnificent. Scored goals, made goals, defended well. Can't ask for more really. Should be in team of the tournament.

Dele Alli 5- Worst regular player for England imo, yes poorer than Sterling. Seemed injured all the time and not really sure of his role anyway, just dosen't seem as good a fit for England as Spurs.

Kane 7.5- Strange tournament. Will likely get golden boot. 5 goals were v Tunisia and Panama and he pretty much disappeared from Colombia and Croatia games as they went on. I do think he picked up injury that restricted him though. Probably due to being rushed back end of last season.

Rashford 6- Bit of reality check for Redcafe. Don't get me wrong I think he's a tremendous young talent but as with Martial lad has still a fair bit to learn about game understanding at crucial moments. Some of his runs were a bit limited tonight for example.
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Hugely disagree with the Bold. Agreeing with the non-bold. Trippier was head and shoulders above everyone aside from maybe Macguire as the only one close to him. Alli was terrible throughout. Rashford offered nothing other than further examples of him being tactically naive. It's fine to make an impact against open sides but he needs to add lots to his game to start for United or England.

Pickford was a solid 7. Poor today in particular. Talented keeper but his positioning is very poor at times. Some great saves obviously but he's never a 9 out of 10.

Kane was terrible. Which is insane to even suggest as he won the Golden Boot. His performance against Croatia was devoid of anything beyond trying to earn a free kick. He was abysmal in the air. Most of the time he didn't even challenge for the ball. Really thought he'd show up today.
 
OutOfTowner said:
I'll readily confess to being one of those "bitter" Irish followers who holds a deep hope that the three lions don't roar too loud but having watched England through various tournaments throughout the decades, I have seen you lot left despondent by expectations that were never met and hugely embarrassed by the boorish hooligan element that smashed their way into every unfortunate host country causing mayhem wherever they go and generally leaving the true honest supporters ashamed by the fact that they have to be linked with that lot. I know you've all felt a lot of bitter animosity towards the national side and certain element of supporters.

So even despite the run-in you've had and the success you've experienced on the pitch, it's nice to see English fans for once have the opportunity to leave the competition with their heads held high and pride in the team. Not only has your team displayed, whatever about the teams they've faced, a lot of heart and determination but your fans in Russia have, from what I've seen anyway, behaved well and have backed the team until the end. I know that this team is typically a harbinger of recrimination so I hope you can all enjoy the feelgood factor coming off the back of this and feel some renewed hope about England. And that's coming from an Irishman.
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Some nice words mate.

Completely agree with your points. Regardless of the easy narrative point being lost from posters who don't live in U.K is the nation has put it's trust back in national team again and there is unity between the two.

Just have to look back last 10 years and seeing the antipathy and abuse being directed at players for not carrying. Now it's back and England will get fantastic reception when they return to Wembley in September.

To me it's a little similar to when Germany won back faith of their country during the 2006 world cup.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Hugely disagree with the Bold. Agreeing with the non-bold. Trippier was head and shoulders above everyone aside from maybe Macguire as the only one close to him. Alli was terrible throughout.

Pickford was a solid 7. Poor today in particular. Talented keeper but his positioning is very poor at times. Some great saves obviously but he's never a 9 out of 10.

Kane was terrible. Which is insane to even suggest as he won the Golden Boot. His performance against Croatia was devoid of anything beyond trying to earn a free kick. He was abysmal in the air. Most of the time he didn't even challenge for the ball. Really thought he'd show up today.
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I think Kane is injured. He struggled to get through Colombia game. No different to Rooney in major tournaments but at least he scored goals that were expected of Rooney in previous tournaments even if many were penalties.

I think you've being harsh on Pickford considering the lack of confidence in him before things started. Colombia game he saves Bacca penalty, Sweden game he makes a massive save at 1-0 and then two more at 2-0 to stop any Sweden comeback.

This game aside from the Mandzukic save I thought he was pretty commanding and decisive on corners and high balls. He did what was expected and had little chance with either goal.
 
FootballHQ said:
I think you've being harsh on Pickford considering the lack of confidence in him before things started. Colombia game he saves Bacca penalty, Sweden game he makes a massive save at 1-0 and then two more at 2-0 to stop any Sweden comeback.

This game aside from the Mandzukic save I thought he was pretty commanding and decisive on corners and high balls. He did what was expected and had little chance with either goal.
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That's a 7 out of 10 for me. He was good, not great. Deserves the Number 1 shirt and I think he has the potential to develop further. But you can't hand out a 9 out of 10 for a goalkeeper that only keeps one clean sheet, that's absurd. For that level of rating I'd expect to have seen him control his defence, rather than see it slide into disarray at times. On top of a few shut-outs. He's certainly enhanced his reputation though.
 
FootballHQ said:
Some nice words mate.

Completely agree with your points. Regardless of the easy narrative point being lost from posters who don't live in U.K is the nation has put it's trust back in national team again and there is unity between the two.

Just have to look back last 10 years and seeing the antipathy and abuse being directed at players for not carrying. Now it's back and England will get fantastic reception when they return to Wembley in September.

To me it's a little similar to when Germany won back faith of their country during the 2006 world cup.
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Well you guys go through a lot of turmoil at times it seems so you deserve a break and some joy every once in a while.:D
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
That's a 7 out of 10 for me. He was good, not great. Deserves the Number 1 shirt and I think he has the potential to develop further. But you can't hand out a 9 out of 10 for a goalkeeper that only keeps one clean sheet, that's absurd. For that level of rating I'd expect to have seen him control his defence, rather than see it slide into disarray at times. On top of a few shut-outs. He's certainly enhanced his reputation though.
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Which keeper was best at this WC? Courtois didn't keept clean sheet in knock outs either and was dodgy in Japan game, Muslera let in a shocker v France, Alisson was very well protected by a good Brazil backline but was rooted to his line when Swiss scored. Don't think any of those would get higher than 7.

Lloris overall been best although his form at club level has dipped last 18 months.
 
We were beaten by the better side last night no shame in it. Croatia have the experience and quality going forward to win big matches while I think we lacked that last night. Proud of the team especially Young and Lingard who had superb tournaments.
 
Don't agree with the notion that we overachieved. We beat every team that we were supposed to and lost to an equal team that had a grueling run.
I don't think we are going to have as good a chance for a long while.
 
With a half decent (healthy?) striker you would have won yesterday. Kane is good on his day, but last couple of games he's been awful. He looks absolutely knackered, happy to be on the ground with every slight touch of the opponent. Very frustrating to watch.
 
We got much further than I expected and Southgate brought a good spirit and team drive to the side so there's a lot of credit there. I've personally never seen England get as far as that in any major tournament so it was a positive tournament.

We fell short on quality in the end but I don't buy the Croatia love in- we outplayed them first half, we were the better team. France will see them off.
 
Alex99 said:
I think if I were to rank them, my top 3 would probably be Pickford, Trippier, Lingard, in that order.
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Nah. He was decent (bar yesterday) but I would have Maguire and Kane easily ahead of him, likely Stones and Henderson too. People dislike Henderson because of the team he plays, but he was in an impossible mission, essentially being the only midfielder in the team.
 
CA_vampire said:
Kane, Alli, Dier, Trippier ... did you really expect something else from Spurs players? They are probably quite happy with fourth place.
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Trippier kind of scored the opener. Come on man, let go of which club someone comes from and judge by performance.

My personal opinion is that Trippier is a proper dick but he played rather well. Walker together with him were at fault of letting Croatia score two but still I think Walker rescued many more. Lingard was quite ineffective. Rashford should have come on way sooner. Hendo played well as well making couple of mistakes, but tired out and Dier did good when he came on for him. Sterling was ok in first half but second no.

Alli was IMO the worst of them all. Total no-show. Would have loved to see Loftus-Cheek come on for him. Kane was not given much. 2 semi-chances. Mostly because Sterling didn't win any headers. Vardy would have been a better strike partner for Kane.

Maguire was the best defender of the backline. Young and Stones did their share but nothing out of the ordinary.

Best player for England was Pickford. Easily.

That's my take on the match without club bias.
 
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