We joined the common market in 1973, without any referendum, so you were wrong I'm afraid, even after googling it to check.
We did have a referendum in 1975 on whether to stay in or not. You may have voted in that one.
EU Referendum Results Thread | Leave have won, Cameron resigns
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We joined the common market in 1973, without any referendum, so you were wrong I'm afraid, even after googling it to check.
We did have a referendum in 1975 on whether to stay in or not. You may have voted in that one.
Yes, we had a referendum to vote on it because people were annoyed that we had not been asked in the first place. I remember the fuss at the time because it was my first vote. We voted (not me) to stay in so we can also vote to come out.
Correct. (you can punch me later)
Not many people were annoyed , I voted in it to confirm joining and it was an easy victory, not much fuss at all, oddly enough some of the labour party were annoyed with Wilson
Strange that one of the few countries in the world without a constitution is craving democracy. Despair.
Not quite a fair point, our constitution isn't codified, it's unwritten but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The fact that it can be influenced continually by statute, conventions or even case law is arguably, actually much more democratic.
I know what your saying though.
Forum instructions are to hug not punch...so....hmm...quick hug there for you.
That letter to the EU doesn't have to be sent, maybe they will forget to send it
Then you aren't "all up for democracy" -
Sounds like a shite deal. At least here, temps are hired typically for a specific time frame or with the understanding that good performance could lead to full time employment.
My sister voted Leave despite numerous arguments - and it boiled down to the reason that she wanted Great Britain to be great again - when I pointed out that the 'Great' does not mean fantastic but big and is now likely to get smaller if Scotland and N.Ireland have their way, we haven't spoken since
feck, my sister and mother thankfully both voted Remain. No idea about my Aunty and cousins though.
You do realize that's +17m voted to leave and with Tories delivering this referendum and people being aware of the possible take back stuff if Labour will win, a lot of UKIP supporters (and absolute majority of these 17m leave voters) will vote Conservative to preserve the referendum results. Especially if there will be a "snap GE", like in 2016 or yearly 2017 when the shit would not have the time to hit the fan properly.
It will lead to Tory gains more likely. Of course you could argue that remain people will mobilize and see it as the last chance to somehow stay, but so will leave supporters and we have seen who does hold the edge in terms of turnout.
What is the job situation like in Canada (particularly BC)? My daughter's applying for her Canadian passport with a view to moving over there permanently.
I talked with some of my City friends and they're like feck, jesus, so much work, but hey, it not like Swiss is any less of financial center being outside of the EU. And no way americans are going to go to Germany or France. And they got a point.
While nobody really knows how exactly UK will leave, one thing is clear if you think about it, UK never was a proper part of EU de facto. It's always was a case of one leg in, one leg out.
While nobody really knows how exactly UK will leave, one thing is clear if you think about it, UK never was a proper part of EU de facto. It's always was a case of one leg in, one leg out.
Does he mean 2008?
Also the markets haven't fallen in any kind of manner in the tweet. FTSE closed much higher than 2 weeks ago. Closed higher than periods in May and April this year.
Look how far we dropped when China was coughing at the start of 2016. That's a real drop and still nothing like 2008. Also the pound rallied to a higher level leading up to the EU so the drop is misleading. It's not far from getting back to where it was before. The biggest drop in the pound to dollar was in 2015, people should look at that.
We won't know the real story in a day.
Swiss pay billions each year to EU to be part of EU market and free movement, exactly the reason why most of people in UK want to leave EU.
The Swiss aren't in the EU because they're a small, neutral country who pride themselves on their neutrality. They still pay a shitload of money to be part of the trade agreement, and it took a very long time.
What the UK have basically done is lose all EU funding and rights within the UK and still found themselves in a position where they'll have to pay as much, if not more than before, to keep their trade flowing. It'll also be an incredibly lengthy process to do so.
The Swiss are mostly in the EU, free movement of people and they pay a lot of money into it
Do you have a source for that?
I'm finding lots of mentions of 500-700m per year for Switzerland and if they joined it would 3-4 billion.
UK will probably pay something as well, it not like EU will abandon it's major trade partner and UK has actually trade deficit with the other EU, that means they buy more EC goods than they sell. So will EC leave cut their exports? Doubtful. Will UK want to remain financial superpower with ties to EC, so that they can continue be this bridge from USA, Asia to EC? Sure. Will EC think that they can do without London financial sway? Surely not, they understand that a lot of it is down to London's own unique features. And so on, so on.
I've posted it in the "democracy useless" thread a while ago, i think it's really pertinent here to answer the question:
Look at the UK Referendum, sure it's voted Leave, but don't you think there will be a huge and long negotiations process in the end of which UK will still be pretty much tied to EC and the Leave voters would not get everything they thought they'll get, they'll have to compromise on stuff to balance the scales because almost half of the country did vote remain and they don't expect to lose EC forever and completely. That's is the actual, real democracy.
People always mistake vote for democracy. It's only the part of it, it give you the "red line", the main thing. Now this balancing the scales act, the consideration of losing side position and compromise that's where real democracy happens.
That's what will happen, UK will have to compromise, they'll maybe get their desires in immigration, but i am sure UK will pay something to EC budget and EC will grant them access, what are those sums will be, what sort of access, that remains to be seen. But i can tell you that the actual agreement will not be 100% on the Leave side, it will fall somewhere in the middle between Leave and Remain, closer to the Leave side same as the referendum result.
It will be the same for UK, the will leave the EU but will remain in shitload of other agreements, maybe general framework, maybe even designed specifically for UK-EC.
Ok, I don't know exact numbers, you might be right. Anyway the most important thing is that you must agree to be part of free movement which Brits don't want.
The EU won't let us get a competitive advantage by cherry picking legislation and free access to their markets, its a recepie to loose jobs to the UK
It won't be cherry picking, and it won't be a "competitive advantage". It will a compromise since without any ties with UK at all EC is much worse as well as UK. Middle ground. Yes there is such a thing.
It's like when your girl leveraged you to go to her party while Manchester United is playing, so you take you second best friend, your smartphone, with you and you sneak a peak every now and again instead of "properly mingling". So both of you are not particularly happy with this arrangement, but strangely enough you both are somewhat satisfied, you did see like half of the game, the nerve-breaking ending included, so you did get some of your fan excitement and she also did get to introduce you to her colleagues, friends even though you did went for a smoke a couple of times without any cigarettes or a lighter (and you don't actually smoke as well)
So in the end of the day you arrive home, no drama, nobody feels offended or "discriminated against".
The EC can cope better without us then us without them
No they can't. UK is EC's second largest economy for a reason. They can cope without Romania and Hungary. But with billions of trade and billions in services in and out, coping without is simply not an option.
Sure maybe they can cope "better". Sorry for a morbid analogy, but you did not noticed the funny one with girl and MU, but it's like two patients with terminal, stage four cancer and one can't even stand up, is in constant pain, the other is at least walking himself still, watching TV. So yeah the latter one is somewhat better, but actually they are both are bad and dying.
3rd, at least briefly today.
Europe is huge, between them they are self sufficient, we are not
Still much bigger than everybody else combined apaprt from France Germany and a couple more.
And also you should consider PPP GDP, not nominal, otherwise volatile currency rates will have too much effect. And in that UK is confidently second.
They are not. If they were self-sufficient London would not dominate finances as much. They would not be so much trade going in and out of UK. As long as UK account for what 10-15% of EC exports and much more in trade when you factor imports and services, it a piece of the actions EC just can't lose or replace with other countries. Otherwise they are going to be that dead patient that is somewhat "better".
Howard Nurse @HowardNurseBBC
Britain joins EEC
Britain joins EEC
Finance can shift to the continent quite quickly, after that all we have left are Cornish Pasties and Scottish Salmon, they will of course no longer be protected by EU local produce laws
Over heard far too many conversations today referencing winning a world war as evidence we can go it alone.
Many people I consider good friends voted out but actually can't give me a reason why other than 'coz it's better for our children' and 'just because...it will be better..trust me'....The girl in my corner shop voted out because her friends were.
Really saddens me that so many people have got off their arse to vote that don't actually know what voting leave means.
Many people I consider good friends voted out but actually can't give me a reason why other than 'coz it's better for our children' and 'just because...it will be better..trust me'....The girl in my corner shop voted out because her friends were.
Really saddens me that so many people have got off their arse to vote that don't actually know what voting leave means.
They can't. It takes decades if not more. There was a huge investment in UK, UK has unique competences and capabilities, why did you think they export so many services and their universities are behind american only. UK is a huge economy and a huge market even without closer EC ties, most of multinationals will stay. Take Russia for example, even with sanctions, decreasing economy and other troubles just a little number of foreign investor and companies actually left and closed their operations there. A huge number remained, many even continue to invest more etc. Arabs, USA, Asia will still invest in UK.
To suggest that the country with golden triangle, with great capabilities in life science (i can speak from experience on that one, since i am in biotech, pharma) will be left with chips and fish is beyond foolish and uneducated actually.
EC gave UK a good conditions sure, but other countries also had them, yet their respective economies were nowhere near as strong as UK, France or Germany.
Those who think EC will do just fine without UK and that UK is no more significant as Slovenia/Poland/Hungary/whatever just don't get international trade and has very little idea of how multinational business is actually done. Just look at the numbers, how much trade is done with UK. Look at Germany-UK connection. Germany won't export these goods to Poland or Slovenia, they just can't pay for it, nor do they have something to offer Germans. Just get real, do you think Eastern Europe will buy as many german cars as UK does?
UK is a huge, wealthy market and no way EC will cut the ties completely. So the deal will be on the table, it may be a better deal, it maybe worse, it may be the same. But some sort of compromise would be struck.
Finance is people, not plant and equipment, they can and will move into the EU if the deal we secure isn't satisfactory.
Germany can flog their goods outside the EU, they are very good at it already. Multinationals have a choice, be in the UK with its soon to be difficult VISA rules or the EU, I think they will pick the latter
Of course there will be a deal, in no way will it be better than we have now
It not, it's way more complicated that that. It's who eco-system, it takes years, decades even to built a top financial center.
Exactly. They are doing it already, they won't be able to replace UK fallout simply because they won't be an economy as big as UK that will suddenly appear on the map.
It won't be much of a choice for most of them, only a moron will lose UK market, to go where, in Slovakia? They are already in Germany and France.
People tend actually to overestimate EC role, some of EC economies are top-notch of course, but more than half is nowhere near UK level.
Don't forget that a lot of UK exports go to USA, Arab world, Asia so if a company wants to have access there they will remain in UK, because a UK office will give you much better USA, Hong Kong market penetration even without these close EC ties than an office in say Paris, never mind some third rate EC country.
Nothing too complicated about. As i've said top companies even work in Russia.
Nobody can know that since the deal is not on the table yet, nobody knows anything about how it will actually effect UK economy in the long run. For example you can check UKs intra-EC exports and "rest of the world" exports from 1990 till now. You probably will be surprised by that data.
There was a good article I read today about this fallacy, along the lines of, Carthage was once great, but no-one thinks they're making a comeback soon either.
It's cluster feck. It's like a parent making the kids decide which house to mortgage...
Such a big decision shouldn't be left to the public. Politicians are mostly crooked, but in times like this we need crooked veteran that knows what they're doing and willing to be ruthless for the greater goods.
Cameron is too pussy, he should just take the decision and no referendum. Heck at least make them vote for terms renegotiating instead of leaving
Such a big decision shouldn't be left to the public. Politicians are mostly crooked, but in times like this we need crooked veteran that knows what they're doing and willing to be ruthless for the greater goods.
Cameron is too pussy, he should just take the decision and no referendum. Heck at least make them vote for terms renegotiating instead of leaving