European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

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If people side with cnut like Perez then football is already doomed, like he has best interest for football, laughable. His problem is power dynamic shift, he probabaly thinks shit wont get any better for RM. State owned clubs are just being used as excuse to push agenda, remove them and he would trash talk PL TV money deals etc.
 
I could be imagining this, but several years ago weren't Bayern reportedly one of the main cheerleaders for a Super League, before they received such a negative backlash from their own fans and quickly backed down? I think that may have been around 2016. I'm sure there were protests from their fans at the time.

I think they and Real Madrid were the main cheerleaders for the expanded Club World Cup that was proposed a few years ago, but again their fans were furious at their hierarchy for that.
 
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giorno said:
That's down to COVID restrictions. But to answer the question: it's not getting bad, it *is* bad for everyone - except real madrid, that is. Real Madrid are in better financial health than anybody not owned by an oil state funnily enough...
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What is the capacity limit at the Nou Camp currently?
 
Nanook said:
I think in the future we might see a Super League without English clubs.

Domestic TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
Bundesliga - £900m
La Liga - £850m
Serie A - £800m
Ligue 1 - £500m

Foreign TV rights

Premier League - £1.7bn
La Liga - £800m
Bundesliga - £170m
Serie A - £170m
Ligue 1 - £70m

La Liga has done a good job at growing its TV rights around the world but the other leagues are getting left behind. TV rights have actually declined in Serie A and the Bundesliga.

The latest NBC deal the PL signed in the US is worth almost as much as Serie A and the Bundesliga’s overseas rights combined.

With the huge economic growth in Asia it’s not unthinkable that in the future the PL could be making billions per year from the Asian rights alone.
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Can't help but think that Bayerns monopoly and stranglehold over Bundesliga is killing the product.
 
Kentonio said:
Bosman did change everything but its hard to argue it wasn't the right change. Can anyone really justify a system where a player could be out of contract and basically held hostage by their club when they don't want to be there?
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Obviously I can't argue against that, and I guess I'm much better in pointing to the problem than actually offering a solution, but I do believe some alternatives should have been found. Of course, I'm only speaking retrospectively, it's easy to be Captain Obvious quarter a century later, when football has come down to just 20 or so big clubs.

I don't know, perhaps some sort of incentive should have been pushed on international level to limit number of transfers per club, or to force them to use bigger number of academy players. Something along those lines would perhaps make a more even playing field.

It's easy to dismiss weaker opponents coming from smaller leagues as unwatchable today, but it really wasn't that way back then. And in my opinion, UEFA (and FIFA) should have explored options to limit the power of certain clubs before they became money-making machines that they are now. It's a bit late for that now, and it's pretty much what has become their own undoing, because I don't see how UEFA would ever have chance to stand up to Real Madrid again for example.

The potential allies they might have had in weaker clubs all across the continent are so weak and meaningless, mostly because UEFA helped make them that way. And I'm speaking strictly from a small-club fan point of view, it really doesn't look to us like state owned clubs will destroy the football anything more than it has already been destroyed. I mean, to us it is pretty much the same.

What we have right now is some sort of Superleague, just not formalized and set in stone. If Manchester United played Sarajevo again, I know I'd cheer for Sarajevo. But it's almost guaranteed not to happen, so there is no problem in supporting both for me. Kind of like an NBA structure, with a group of huge clubs, and then the rest of us as some sort of feeder farms.

Sorry for responding with this big wall of text, I know you just asked a simple question, but I kind of couldn't contain myself. I may actually be completely wrong in my opinions, perhaps this would have happened regardless of UEFA and its money-grabbing schemes.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Obviously I can't argue against that, and I guess I'm much better in pointing to the problem than actually offering a solution, but I do believe some alternatives should have been found. Of course, I'm only speaking retrospectively, it's easy to be Captain Obvious quarter a century later, when football has come down to just 20 or so big clubs.

I don't know, perhaps some sort of incentive should have been pushed on international level to limit number of transfers per club, or to force them to use bigger number of academy players. Something along those lines would perhaps make a more even playing field.

It's easy to dismiss weaker opponents coming from smaller leagues as unwatchable today, but it really wasn't that way back then. And in my opinion, UEFA (and FIFA) should have explored options to limit the power of certain clubs before they became money-making machines that they are now. It's a bit late for that now, and it's pretty much what has become their own undoing, because I don't see how UEFA would ever have chance to stand up to Real Madrid again for example.

The potential allies they might have had in weaker clubs all across the continent are so weak and meaningless, mostly because UEFA helped make them that way. And I'm speaking strictly from a small-club fan point of view, it really doesn't look to us like state owned clubs will destroy the football anything more than it has already been destroyed. I mean, to us it is pretty much the same.

What we have right now is some sort of Superleague, just not formalized and set in stone. If Manchester United played Sarajevo again, I know I'd cheer for Sarajevo. But it's almost guaranteed not to happen, so there is no problem in supporting both for me. Kind of like an NBA structure, with a group of huge clubs, and then the rest of us as some sort of feeder farms.

Sorry for responding with this big wall of text, I know you just asked a simple question, but I kind of couldn't contain myself. I may actually be completely wrong in my opinions, perhaps this would have happened regardless of UEFA and its money-grabbing schemes.
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I actually agree completely about how shitty the concentration of power is in football. I'd be totally behind any changes that slowed down the transfer drain to the top clubs and gave teams a chance to benefit from the players they develop. Perhaps limiting the number of transfers might help, although I suspect the big clubs will still find a way to game the system.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Obviously I can't argue against that, and I guess I'm much better in pointing to the problem than actually offering a solution, but I do believe some alternatives should have been found. Of course, I'm only speaking retrospectively, it's easy to be Captain Obvious quarter a century later, when football has come down to just 20 or so big clubs.

I don't know, perhaps some sort of incentive should have been pushed on international level to limit number of transfers per club, or to force them to use bigger number of academy players. Something along those lines would perhaps make a more even playing field.

It's easy to dismiss weaker opponents coming from smaller leagues as unwatchable today, but it really wasn't that way back then. And in my opinion, UEFA (and FIFA) should have explored options to limit the power of certain clubs before they became money-making machines that they are now. It's a bit late for that now, and it's pretty much what has become their own undoing, because I don't see how UEFA would ever have chance to stand up to Real Madrid again for example.

The potential allies they might have had in weaker clubs all across the continent are so weak and meaningless, mostly because UEFA helped make them that way. And I'm speaking strictly from a small-club fan point of view, it really doesn't look to us like state owned clubs will destroy the football anything more than it has already been destroyed. I mean, to us it is pretty much the same.

What we have right now is some sort of Superleague, just not formalized and set in stone. If Manchester United played Sarajevo again, I know I'd cheer for Sarajevo. But it's almost guaranteed not to happen, so there is no problem in supporting both for me. Kind of like an NBA structure, with a group of huge clubs, and then the rest of us as some sort of feeder farms.

Sorry for responding with this big wall of text, I know you just asked a simple question, but I kind of couldn't contain myself. I may actually be completely wrong in my opinions, perhaps this would have happened regardless of UEFA and its money-grabbing schemes.
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This is a really good post. You're right, UEFA are reaping what they have sowed and the difference for a European 'small club' now between an old skool 'legacy' club vs. a oil run club is pretty much immaterial.

That said, there is a little light on the horizon for the smaller clubs in England and that is the growth of the PL TV overseas deals. This are starting to show the same (and even exceeding) the growth the PL domestic deals showed between 1992-2015. If this continues to move in that fashion and the PL can keep it's domestic TV deal's broadly in line with inflation then it will essentially become the de facto Super League owing to the distribution model (although this has slightly been moved in the favour of the big clubs as the made a change to the revenues from overseas a couple of years' ago.)

So, yes, you're right about the smaller teams from Europe being screwed, but the top 25-30 teams in England (owing to parachute money) are potentially set.

For me, the CL changed the face of European football to make it an essential cartel between the legacy clubs. However, the PL has grown so popular in the meantime that this has outmenovered the legacy clubs (particularly those aboard.)

For me, the PL deals where the real reason for the Super League as Spanish and Italian clubs see the writing on the wall, whilst the US owed PL clubs see the issue of the PL distribution model (if overseas revenues continue to increase) on their position over the medium to long term.
 
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R'hllor said:
If people side with cnut like Perez then football is already doomed, like he has best interest for football, laughable. His problem is power dynamic shift, he probabaly thinks shit wont get any better for RM. State owned clubs are just being used as excuse to push agenda, remove them and he would trash talk PL TV money deals etc.
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I really don't understand how people can't see this. Perez wants Real to be top dogs. He doesn't want parity with the other big clubs. Even if the super league were to come to fruition he would still find a way for Real to get more money from it than the other clubs.
 
Cloud7 said:
I really don't understand how people can't see this. Perez wants Real to be top dogs. He doesn't want parity with the other big clubs. Even if the super league were to come to fruition he would still find a way for Real to get more money from it than the other clubs.
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I think thats what happened in the original proposals, Real Madrid had the most money in the deal, and he was the chairman of the super league.
 
Time to make this happen.
 
feck it, i'm on board. Can't be any less corrupt than what we have now right?
 
wtf I love European Super League now
 
You see. Sooner or later, nobody can escape it

FlorenThanos is inevitable
 
Now that they have agreed to re-draw, the ESL is a scummy move by evil American overlords once again and anyone that liked it is a bad bad man.
 
Another competition to end this mess that is UEFA or at least give them enough reason to revise and update their system wouldn't be a bad thing that's for sure.
 
pascell said:
Can't help but think that Bayerns monopoly and stranglehold over Bundesliga is killing the product.
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They aren't killing the product domestically, german stadiums are always packing and energetic, plus the average attendance is even a bit higher than in PL, they are killing it mostly for non-german watchers.
Plus the language doesn't help, selling something in german instead of english it's always gonna be harder.The reason for temporary success that La Liga had abroad(despiste the spanish language) was due to Messi vs Cristiano, now they are losing that.

It will always be an advantage to sell something based/related to the english language abroad, nobody in Asia learns spanish,german or italian as a second language (unless you want to work as a translator).
If i want to sell something abroad to make it trendy and marketable, it has to be in english, it can't be in german,russian or spanish.
 
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In essence the idea of it is just corrupt and purely made for financial gain

But isn't that the point?

European governments have proven to be too corrupt to curb the sate owned club influence
Super league will make sure that no new club will earn and enjoy the prerogative that clubs like ours have but it will also make sure no new psgs or city's will arise and us growing naturally without outside financial doping won't happen again anyway (hasn't happened since what dourtmound?)

Make some changes and allow in some teams from pourtugese and Dutch leagues and make it a bit more performance based and im in

Also a good feck you to bin salman (would be something that he gets cut of the European royalty the moment he sets foot in the club owning game)
 
Red the Bear said:
In essence the idea of it is just corrupt and purely made for financial gain

But isn't that the point?

European governments have proven to be too corrupt to curb the sate owned club influence
Super league will make sure that no new club will earn and enjoy the prerogative that clubs like ours have but it will also make sure no new psgs or city's will arise and us growing naturally without outside financial doping won't happen again anyway (hasn't happened since what dourtmound?)

Make some changes and allow in some teams from pourtugese and Dutch leagues and make it a bit more performance based and im in

Also a good feck you to bin salman (would be something that he gets cut of the European royalty the moment he sets foot in the club owning game)
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You are really naive if you think Salmans and state owned clubs in general won't find their place there. I mean, thirst for money is insatiable, the very Florentino Perez and the rest of guardians of purity of European football will welcome Salman with open arms if he brings more money. And he surely will.
 
Another potential round of lockdowns, CL fixtures must be in doubt - as must keeping stadiums open throughout Europe ... Barca out of the lucrative stages of the competition, Juve struggling in the league

Can see another iteration of a super league coming soon
 
BlackShark_80 said:
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:lol:

This is still a shit idea and will always be until the starting teams are decided by league winners and then every season has relegation for at least 3 clubs. Anything else is just rich clubs trying to ensure they remain the richest and most relevant and isn't about saving anything.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
You are really naive if you think Salmans and state owned clubs in general won't find their place there. I mean, thirst for money is insatiable, the very Florentino Perez and the rest of guardians of purity of European football will welcome Salman with open arms if he brings more money. And he surely will.
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I admit that I'm being defiant and grasping at the straws but even if there's small chance to keep the likes of him out or at least delay his growth i prefer it to the current model
 
The aim should be to strengthen each league.

Have a cap on transfers. If an oil club or United or Liverpool go over said cap, that money goes back to the league where it is divided.

Have a cap on wages as well.

I think this method would get more winners like Everton, Arsenal and Spurs or at the very least some tight races involving clubs outside the top 5.

Does city winning all the time really top ratings, merchandise sales and general interest?

An Arsenal Everton title race would be absolutely huge worldwide, no?

Besides the ridiculous player power, the NBA has seen the Bucks and the Raptors win recent titles and they didn't have LeBron or Durrant. That's the equivalent of pre oil Newcastle and Birmingham winning the league.

LeBron and Durrant distort things, but the NBA has a pretty good model where small markets can compete with the Lakers and the big markets like the Knicks are shit because they aren't run well.

Parity in European club football would improve everything in my opinion.
 
https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-ch...e-madrid-court-rejects-uefa-appeal-over-judge

European Super League: Madrid court rejects UEFA appeal over judge


A court in Madrid has rejected a bid from UEFA to have the judge who granted an injunction protecting the Super League removed from the case.

Judge Manuel Ruiz de Lara sided with the Super League and its remaining clubs Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus when they brought a lawsuit last year asking for UEFA's disciplinary proceedings against them to be halted.
 

 
"We are continuing to work to reform European football, to improve competitiveness, sustainability and governance. We are talking to many clubs across 10 different countries who share our view of the challenges faced by the sport. Standing still cannot be an option".

What a fecking bullshit this is. Unbelievable.
 
10 countries? So there will still be the usual whipping boys earning less than the top table clubs, but still probably more than they get in their current leagues, and the teams at the top get the most money. Can see this taking off even without the prem clubs.
 
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