Everton 3-4 United.....07/02/04.....PL
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Anyone knows if Giggsy & Gaz will be back yet?
----------------------Howard-----------------------
--Gazz-------O'Shea-----------Silves------Fortune--
--------------Keano----------Scholes----------------
--Ronaldo---------------------------------Giggs-----
---------------------------Saha---------------------
--------------------Van Nistelrooy-------------------
----------------------Howard-----------------------
--Gazz-------O'Shea-----------Silves------Fortune--
--------------Keano----------Scholes----------------
--Ronaldo---------------------------------Giggs-----
---------------------------Saha---------------------
--------------------Van Nistelrooy-------------------
Again imo its hard to make any decisions. We have players out injured, key players i should add. Formation and line up without any injuries id like to see...
4-4-2
- - - - - - - - - - - - Howard - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gary - - - - Oshea - - - - Silvestre - - - -Fortune
Ronaldo - - - - Scholes - - - - Keane - - - - Giggs
- - - - - - - - Ruud - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - -
the only players with a question mark over their heads who are in doubt are giggs and gary. Then imo i would like to see wes cover gary, Ronaldo in for giggs and Fletcher in for Ronaldo. These are just minor switches between ronaldo and fletcher. Ronaldo did well when he played against Everton on the left. some may say that its best to give wes some game time in the centre to establish a partnership with silvestre. IMO i think we should implement wes slowly into the centre role by playing him on in RB first so he can build confidence. Warm up his passing and tackling game on the right rather then in the centre where one mistake can result in a goal.
Subs:
Carrol
Forlan
Phil
Butt
Kleberson/Bellion
Also whats the latest on ole. Could we see a surprise return against Everton ?
My proposed line up is a rough one. Im not 100% on my decision because of injuries and how the team stands. But one think i do want to see is Saha playing again. I thought Ruud played alot more aggressive and was on his toes, Saha was excellent.
4-4-2
- - - - - - - - - - - - Howard - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gary - - - - Oshea - - - - Silvestre - - - -Fortune
Ronaldo - - - - Scholes - - - - Keane - - - - Giggs
- - - - - - - - Ruud - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - -
the only players with a question mark over their heads who are in doubt are giggs and gary. Then imo i would like to see wes cover gary, Ronaldo in for giggs and Fletcher in for Ronaldo. These are just minor switches between ronaldo and fletcher. Ronaldo did well when he played against Everton on the left. some may say that its best to give wes some game time in the centre to establish a partnership with silvestre. IMO i think we should implement wes slowly into the centre role by playing him on in RB first so he can build confidence. Warm up his passing and tackling game on the right rather then in the centre where one mistake can result in a goal.
Subs:
Carrol
Forlan
Phil
Butt
Kleberson/Bellion
Also whats the latest on ole. Could we see a surprise return against Everton ?
My proposed line up is a rough one. Im not 100% on my decision because of injuries and how the team stands. But one think i do want to see is Saha playing again. I thought Ruud played alot more aggressive and was on his toes, Saha was excellent.
Sort the crest out someone.
What's wrong with the crest? I can't find one in the right colour with "football club" on it.kf said:
Cal said:
The colours are a bit pale, but I hope this is acceptable...
anyone know if the game is on tv?
I hate to go on but Keane cannot be in there without someone like Butt or Phil Nev, what with him not being able to get around much anymore.
The only way around it would be to play Keane as a holding midfielder, restricting him from going forward - which would be criminal.
The only way around it would be to play Keane as a holding midfielder, restricting him from going forward - which would be criminal.
VanNistlerater said:
We're playing Everton, not fecking Arsenal or Real Madrid.
The problem IMO is that Scholes as a CM has to make tackles and might well end up with a yellow card (and that in the long run leads to suspensions).
osterdal said:
How is who we're playing atall relevant?
We want Keane to get forward where he is incredibly under-rated, very important to us. Then we have to have someone like Butt or P.Neville to provide 'insurance' for him, so he doesnt have to chase around all over the place, it halfs his work load. He cant do it all on his own, going from box-to-box like a mad man, like he could a few years ago.
Thats the only reason P.Neville is in the team.
Like I said the only way round it is to play him as a defensive midfielder and make him sit infront of the backfour, where he cant get forward and influence the play - which is almost as criminal as wanting to play him at centre half.
No doubt the 2 holding midfielders restrict the creativity of our play, and maybe its fair to say we're carrying Keane, but yet we still look useless without him in the side - tricky one.
sveroa said:
These two are better:
VanNistlerater said:
Fergie said he got Saha to forge a partnership with Ruud. The way to do that is drop Phil and move Scholes to midfield.
It does matter who we play. Many teams play with 11 defenders. Keane can easilly handle the work load. Playing Phil and Keane together is too defensive against the lower sides IMO.
Mr. Wood said:
It is too defensive full-stop. The best thing about Saha signing is it ought to bring Scholes into a more conventional midfield position. Giggs being fit is key; with a Saha/Ruud striking partnership it locks Fergie into a 4-4-2.
redpie said:
I agree with u there, we need to stop playing phil neville with keano all the time cos it just stiffles the attacking play from the middle and its time to play either keano and kleberson or keane and scholes in the middle.
Sorted, better?kf said:
VanNistlerater said:
As stated above, many teams play with ten men behind the ball agianst United. Against teams like that we haven't been creative enough and we haven't scored enough goals - Wolves away being the prime example. Phil has been great this season but he offers very little going forward and while Keane is good going forward he is far from as good as Scholes. With Scholes at CM we will add more creativity while Saha will add more speed.
If we use 6 players in attack then Everton will be forced to defend with 7 or 8 giving them only two or three players to use in a counter attack.
When Scholes go forward Keane will stay back and when Keane goes forward Scholes will stay back. They've done it before and while Keane isn't as good as a few years ago Scholes is better than a few years ago.
4-2-3-1 is a very good formation when we have the chance to counter attack, but we won't be able to do that against Everton.
Bad feeling about this one
Even though MU dominated play last time, Everton still managed to score 2 goals.
Fergie better field the strongest team IMO.
- - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - -
Gary - - - - Oshea - - - - Silvestre - - - -Fortune
Ronaldo - - - - Scholes - - - - Keane - - - - Giggs
- - - - - - - - Ruud - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - -
Even though MU dominated play last time, Everton still managed to score 2 goals.
Fergie better field the strongest team IMO.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - -Gary - - - - Oshea - - - - Silvestre - - - -Fortune
Ronaldo - - - - Scholes - - - - Keane - - - - Giggs
- - - - - - - - Ruud - - - - - - Saha - - - - - - - -
I don't get this Sporting Twat. He slates United players every chance he gets but then posts lineups like an United fan would do so. Makes no sense to me. Must be a follower to the crowd.
4-0 (Scholes, Saha, RVN 2)
1-4 Ruud x 2, Saha, Criss, Wes scores for them.
-------------------Howard---------------------
--Gaz----------Wes-------Micky-------O'Shea--
-------------Butt------------Keano-------------
----Scholes----------Saha-------------Giggs----
----------------------Ruud----------------------
If we were playing a top side I would have O'Shea in the middle, Fortune on the left and Wes on the bench, but Wes needs gametime.
If Gaz is out, put O'Shea on the right and Fortune on the left. If Giggs is still injured I'd have Ronaldo take his place.
--Gaz----------Wes-------Micky-------O'Shea--
-------------Butt------------Keano-------------
----Scholes----------Saha-------------Giggs----
----------------------Ruud----------------------
If we were playing a top side I would have O'Shea in the middle, Fortune on the left and Wes on the bench, but Wes needs gametime.
If Gaz is out, put O'Shea on the right and Fortune on the left. If Giggs is still injured I'd have Ronaldo take his place.
Much better. Didn't want the PLC badge up there with everything that's going on.Cal said:Sorted, better?
We must be wary of set pieces particularly Big Dunc. The defence must try and defend high up the pitch. Doubt Ronaldo will start this one. Could have ended up seriously hurt for the game at Xmas when he was man of match. The likes of Rooney tried to kick limps out of him.
Mr. Wood said:
Jupp, much better
I think Ronaldo would play for that very reason, he's proven that he can run rings round them and probably get Rooney sent off.thoward said:
Cal said:I think Ronaldo would play for that very reason, he's proven that he can run rings round them and probably get Rooney sent off.
If Giggsy isn't fit he probably will play but not if he is fit.
I wouldn't be surprised if we rested some players. This week is more or less the last week with only one match (thank feck for that) and we've got Boro on Wednesday, a team we always struggle against whereas we tend to win rather easy against Everton. So this is the team I think will start on Saturday:
Howard
O'Shea Wes Micky Fortune
Fletch Phizza Scholes Ronaldo
Saha Ruud
It's also possible that Butt will play and not Phizza. Keane rested, Gaz and Giggs hopefully fit, perhaps on the bench.
Howard
O'Shea Wes Micky Fortune
Fletch Phizza Scholes Ronaldo
Saha Ruud
It's also possible that Butt will play and not Phizza. Keane rested, Gaz and Giggs hopefully fit, perhaps on the bench.
I wish people would realise that most teams in the world play with 2 defensive midfielders. Against Everton if keano is paired with scholes he will be up aginst Gravsen and Carsley, we'll lose control of the middle and lose the match, Everton have enough fire power to score. Thinking scholes has the defensive ability to help out is wishfull thinking, hes not got it, hes never has. The past sucess is all about Keanos greatness, sadly the years haved robbed some of his ability, still a great player, but he cant do it all on his own.
Id stick with the team that played southampton, with giggs for ronaldo and gazza for fotune if they are fit.
Id stick with the team that played southampton, with giggs for ronaldo and gazza for fotune if they are fit.
I like the idea of resting Keano for this one. He's starting to look tired. Also Fergie doesn't like playing Ronnie in two consecutive games. So
------------Timmy------------
Gazza - Wes - Tweety - O'Shea
------------Butt------------
Kleb-------Scholes-----Giggzy
------------Saha------------
------------Ruud------------
Bench - Keano, Ronnie, Carroll, Forlan & Fletch
If Giggs is not fit, Ronnie will have to play. If Gazza is not fit, Wes moves to the right, O'Shea to the center and Fortune comes in.
------------Timmy------------
Gazza - Wes - Tweety - O'Shea
------------Butt------------
Kleb-------Scholes-----Giggzy
------------Saha------------
------------Ruud------------
Bench - Keano, Ronnie, Carroll, Forlan & Fletch
If Giggs is not fit, Ronnie will have to play. If Gazza is not fit, Wes moves to the right, O'Shea to the center and Fortune comes in.
Red-Indian said:
Ronaldo has already played three matches in a row...
What is true though is that Ronaldo never plays twice the same week.
mozza said:
Scholes isn't a bad defensive player, it's just that his offensive play is so much better. Scholes and Phizza worked just fine against Stuttgart this season and we've seen Scholes and Butt play togheter at CM to good effect many times.
osterdal said:
Scholes isn't a bad defensive player, it's just that his offensive play is so much better. Scholes and Phizza worked just fine against Stuttgart this season and we've seen Scholes and Butt play togheter at CM to good effect many times.
We did beat stutgart but did you see the incredibly bad tackleing from scholes? I cringe every time I see him go in for a tackle, half the time they are bad, most the time he is lucky not to get a yellow. Your asking him to do something he is not capeable of doing, where as hes playing the best football of his life now he is behind ruud. I think the days of Scholes playing regularly as keanos partner in the middle are over, mostly becuase Keanos no longer up to covering his weakness, thats the reality as far as I'm concerned.
mozza said:
IMO the matches against Newcastle and Wolves showed that we are lacking creativity when facing very defensive minded teams.
Now against quality teams like Arsenal or Real Madrid I agree that we do need a defensive midfielder next to Keane but against teams like Everton and Wolves defending isn't our problem, scoring is.
Us buying Saha indicates that we are going to play with him and Ruud up front, at least against the "lesser" teams, and thus Scholes has to play as a winger or as a CM.
I agree that Scholes can't tackle, and it will be a problem if he keeps tackling - as it would lead to yellow cards and suspensions. But, he doesn't need to make most of the tackles he does (when at CM), soon 30 years old I believe he's mature enough to not tackle in those situations.
osterdal said:
Tackleing is part of playing the position, you cant expect him not to, he did not earlier this season when he has played there, and he did it very badly. Seeing as Saha is a lefty I think he'll play behind ruud with scholes and giggs on either flank. SAF in the past has played giggs just behind ruud with scholes on the left becuase he wants pace through the middle, this is despite scholes inability to play on the left wing (though its been very sucefull in the past like newcastle away last season). Scholes should be more comfortable on the right, and we wont miss giggs ripping down the left flank, I think that'll be what SAF will go with.
mozza said:
Your analysis is quite right. Which means you're going to keep playing 4411 most of the time. Key questions are:
1) Who can you play on the right to give you some creativity (Ronaldo not ready, Fletcher not suited to it, Solsjkaer a stop gap)?
2) Can you afford to play a defender like P. Neville in midfield to cover Keane's decline?
peterstorey said:
Ole played better as a right winger last season then Becks, hes hardly a stop gap. I think it more likey the 3 behind ruud will be Scholes-Saha-Giggs, right to left, plenty of pace, goals and creativity in those 3, more then enough for most teams.
As for phizza as defensive midfield, your mob do something similar, parlour/edu/silva are of compareable competense, both teams revolve around the driving abilties of Keane in our case and Viera in your case. Keane is still the better player, so I'm not worried at all, keane could break both legs and hed still be the better player.
mozza said:
OS did OK but I don't believe anybody (except you know who) thinks he's the answer. Our three all offer much more in midfield than PN. Plus Keane is clearly declining - did you see him burst into the box vs Saints fallover and get up like an old man? & the old Keane would never have been just standing next to Phillips as he comfortably shot home from 35 yds?
peterstorey said:
Your three add so little compared to phizza it hardly matters, and phizza is a better defensive midfielder then any of them. He had a merry time against viera last season and all he had next to him was Veron. Keanos playing fine at the moment, an average game now means feck all, when the cruch games come his will to win is going to drive us to victory, you'll wilt like last year.
mozza said:
Now you're being silly. By the way is the ONLY good thing that's ever said about him is that ONE game against Vieira? Cos it was 3 vs 2 in central midfield that day so no wonder he looked good being the spare man. He's a good MU servant but not part of a PL or CL winning first XI
peterstorey said:
Phizza goes about his job quietly, its about freeing keane, he wont get much press for it. Poor excuse btw, it was not 3 against 2 in the middle, thats a game where we played the 4-2-3-1, it was viera/silva v veron/phizza, phizza came out on top, domianted against your best midfield
.He's a good MU servant but not part of a PL or CL winning first XI
You mean the premier league we won last season with phizza in the middle, damn man guess he should give his medal back
.Two smirks in one post, you really are doing very badly.
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