Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

I don't know if it's been posted, but according to the Daily Mail, Sky Sports have found there to be no footage to back up Evra's claim.

It looks like it's going to be Evra's word against Suarez's.
 
The FA will bottle it or fudge the issue. Both players and teams are not backing down.
 
I wouldn't trust the daily mail.

Besides what exactly do they mean by footage?

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Their audio couldn't pick up what he's saying here? Or what he was saying proved to be something non racist?
 
TBF the FA can't really do anything if

1.) There is no video evidence of him saying something racist
2.) No other players actually heard the abuse
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
TBF the FA can't really do anything if

1.) There is no video evidence of him saying something racist
2.) No other players actually heard the abuse
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Is that defo a fact? Evra is surely above making baseless allegations- but would be amazing if a player could repeatedly racially abuse another on the pitch and no camera picks it up. Not undermining the seriousness of the accusation but we do feel defensively fragile right now and distractions are the last thing we need.
 
According to a Telegraph Article, this is actually the first time Evra has made allegations himself. In the Chelsea case, the allegations were made by a United Staff and in the Finnan case, the allegations were made by the TV Viewers.

Somebody mention it to the scousers and RedMan5 who seems confident that Evra had a history of doing these things.
 
I didn't know that about the Chelsea case.


The Finnan one definitely didn't come from Evra. It really annoys me how some people are rewriting history with that one.
 
KM said:
According to a Telegraph Article, this is actually the first time Evra has made allegations himself. In the Chelsea case, the allegations were made by a United Staff and in the Finnan case, the allegations were made by the TV Viewers.

Somebody mention it to the scousers and RedMan5 who seems confident that Evra had a history of doing these things.
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Football: Evra and United give evidence over Chelsea groundsman battle | Football | The Guardian

You're absolutely right mate. My apologies. However, I'm surprised so many people on here were not aware of that fact, & continued to defend Evra's '2' racist allegations.
 
Serious allegations against Suarez. It's a sensitive issue which transcends club rivalry. There ought not (and doesn't seem to be) a clamour to ban Suarez on the basis of an accusation - there needs to be cast iron proof.

We'll never get to the bottom of this. Sky would have gleefully broadcast the fact that they had evidence if they did.
 
redman5 said:
Football: Evra and United give evidence over Chelsea groundsman battle | Football | The Guardian

You're absolutely right mate. My apologies. However, I'm surprised so many people on here were not aware of that fact, & continued to defend Evra's '2' racist allegations.
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From the FA report:
39. The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.
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Then later on in the report:
Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.
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So, in fact, it turns out Evra has never played the race card. Whaddyaknow.
 
Suarez is probably guilty. Luckily for the prick, it's very hard to prove it to be the case. Although I do hope it puts the spotlight more firmly on him. His shameful behavior on the football pitch every time he steps on to it deserves punishment. For some reason, refs turn a blind eye to all his diving and playacting.
 
rednev said:
I don't know if it's been posted, but according to the Daily Mail, Sky Sports have found there to be no footage to back up Evra's claim.

It looks like it's going to be Evra's word against Suarez's.
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Unless Skysport don't want to play a part in this. It would be reasonable to speculate that if the case is proved in Evra's favour then it could be a potential PR disaster for them.
 
redman5 said:
You're absolutely right mate. My apologies. However, I'm surprised so many people on here were not aware of that fact, & continued to defend Evra's '2' racist allegations.
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If your player turns out to be a racist are you going to feel like a bit of a cnut? Regardless of what happens and has happened, your constant attempts to spread disinformation in some lame and misguided attempt to defend your club make you come across as a major bell-end. Shocking attitudes and ignorance in this thread by a few, no surprise though...
 
Feeky_Magee said:
So, in fact, it turns out Evra has never played the race card. Whaddyaknow.
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Just for completeness, the Finnan incident:

Football: Police investigate claims that Finnan made racist remark to Evra | Football | The Guardian

"The incident allegedly happened after Finnan had given away the stoppage-time free-kick on Evra that led to Rio Ferdinand heading the decisive goal. Evra, however, was unaware of any racist taunts. The Senegal-born Frenchman, a £5.5m signing from Monaco in January, has not raised any complaints although he is aware of the allegations."
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redman5 said:
So it's OK for Evra to bring out the racist card every time he spits out his dummy then ? Simply because it can't be proven either way.

Take off your blinkers soft-lad.
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:rolleyes:

So is it know proved that this Liverpool fan is a retarded cnut?
 
Wrote this for ROM:

How Patrice Evra has never played the race card and why assumptions are dangerous​
Football can do a lot of things. It can turn completely stable people into emotional wrecks, it can play with our emotions like nothing else, save perhaps a member of the opposite sex. In short, it’s a very powerful thing. One thing it should not do, however, is to change our perspective. Not footballing perspective, of course you should feel free to argue that your team is better than my team, your fans are louder than my fans, your grass is greener than our grass. But our general perspective, such as the ability to analyse a serious claim, should be unmoved by which football team we hope scores more goals than the other.

On Saturday, Patrice Evra of Manchester United accused Luis Suarez of Liverpool of making racist remarks towards him. Unfortunately, though the ‘of”s in the previous sentence should not be of importance, they have been made so. It has become about football. This is not an incident about football. It took place on a football pitch, between two men wearing football shirts, but it’s not about football. To bastardise a famous Bill Shankly quote, it’s much more important than that.

Immediately after the allegations were made, a lot of people reacted based on which team they supported. United fans were quick to label Suarez a racist, with certainty, whilst Liverpool fans accused Evra of lying, also with certainty.

The latter however, took a somewhat more sinister form. Liverpool fans, and employees, claimed Evra had a history of playing the ‘race card’. For those who don’t know, the race card refers to exploitation of racist attitudes to gain a personal advantage, typically by falsely accusing others of racism against oneself. In essence, they were saying Evra had in the past lied about being targeted by racial abuse. A very serious claim, I’m sure you’ll agree. It stands to reason that if it is a serious thing to claim racist abuse, it is also a serious thing to claim someone has lied about claiming racial abuse.

Liverpool’s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that “Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.” This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that is wasn’t remotely true, not one bit.

In fact, before Saturday, Evra had accused zero people of racism, not the three quoted by Mr. Walsh and dozens of other Liverpool fans, not two, nor even one. There have been two incidents involving Evra and accusations of racial insults, the only problem is that Evra did not claim in either that he was racially abused – the claims came from others.

In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I’m sure you’ll agree.

In the case with involving Chelsea groundsman, Tony Bethell, it was Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis of Manchester United’s coaching staff who claimed they heard the abuse. As the FA report says “The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.” It later goes on to say “Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.”

So in reality, Evra accused neither Finnan nor Bethell of a racist remark. The claims were done by others. These are the cold, hard facts.

Liverpool is a club that has been hit hard by lies in the past, namely by the despicable Kelvin Mackenzie and the Sun. One might therefore assume that their fans would be careful to ensure that they themselves endeavor to have the full facts of any case emerge. Of course, accusations of racism against Luis Suarez and accusations of the actions of fans on a day where 96 people died are on different scales, however the principle should remain. If in one instance you abhor lies being told where an accusation is made, you should probably endeavor not do so yourself in another instance.

As I touched on earlier, Manchester United fans who have assumed Suarez’s guilt are also worthy of scorn. Just as a lot of Liverpool fans would have reacted differently if Glen Johnson had accused Nemanja Vidic of racist remarks, so too would a lot United fans. Perhaps even incidents involving Johnson and “playing the race card” would have been fabricated.

“Innocent until proven guilty” should not be a changeable stance. If that’s your belief, it’s your belief. It should not be changed because of which football team you prefer. Of course, just as important as “innocent until proven guilty” is that the lack of a guilty verdict does not necessarily mean innocence. In the 1998 adaption of the old play “12 Angry Men”, a juror slowly and painstakingly convinces his fellow jurors not to convict a seemingly guilty man. In the aftermath of the case, he is asked who he believed committed the murder. He replies, to the amazement of the queror, that he thinks it was probably the man he just convinced everyone to acquit.

If, which seems likely, there is found to be not enough evidence, or none, to prove Suarez made racist remarks, inevitably people will assume that Evra was lying. But surely if your initial requirement to the claims that Suarez was racist was “prove it”, the same logic should be applied to the claims that Evra was lying? A lack of proof does not mean an incident has not happened, it simply means it cannot be proven to have happened. As dangerous as it is to assume Suarez is guilty, it is equally as dangerous to conclude Evra is lying if it cannot be proven. It is for this reason that Liverpool as a club have been irresponsible in calling for a ban for Evra if the allegations can’t be proven.

The instant reaction of “he’s lying” to an accusation of racism is not only foolish, but dangerous. Chris Kamara has stated that he was frequently racially abused on the football pitch, but would not report it, as it would be impossible to prove and therefore he would not be believed. The 1999 Macpherson Report in Britain concluded that “There is a fear that when people do report incidents [of racism] they won’t be believed or it won’t be taken seriously”. It is therefore safe to assume that the reaction of people to a claim of racist abuse is quite important, and not merely footballing banter. We are talking about something that can have a severe knock-on effect for other people.

Football is a wonderful thing, but can also be a dangerous thing. When we as football fans are switching our moral views, assuming guilt or fabricating incidents based on the shirt a man is wearing, we have gone too far. We cannot and must not lose perspective because of it. As ridiculous as it is for a man who didn’t have another care in the world on Saturday at 12.45, it is only a game.

How Patrice Evra has never played the race card and why assumptions are dangerous
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It is strange really because if someone made a complaint to the Police about this, a statement would be taken and Suarez arrested for a racially aggravated public order offence (which one would be dependent on what he had said and how he had said it).

You would then get your evidence together to support the case.
 
“Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.”
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Perfect, wasn't aware of that.
 
Feeky_Magee said:
Liverpool’s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that “Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.” This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that is wasn’t remotely true, not one bit.:
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Interesting read that mate. The bit i've quoted, has anything been done about that by Liverpool? I'm not saying sack the guy or anything but that's a bit of a PR disaster for them really. He's slagging off Evra for accusing people of stuff they've not done, yet has done the exact same thing himself. Just looks a bit of poor form really on his b ehalf and it's quite frustrating to see people who are a journalist/columnist not do some proper research. That's the problem with stuff like twitter to, people just believe the first thing they see and it gets taken out of hand. A lot of people who saw it will be to ignorant to admit it's not true and judge Evra on this.

It's a bit of a non starter unfortunatly this, as has been said above if Sky had footage they'd love to show it and brag about how brilliant their coverage is so it is just 1 man saying they did it and another saying they didn't. I'm sure Evra's not lying but the FA won't be charging Suarez on Evra's word I'm sure of that. It's a bit of a shame how it's been handled really as racism is a disgraceful act. It kind of ruins the "kick racism out" campaign a bit if players know they're getting away with it.
 
Oggmonster said:
Interesting read that mate. The bit i've quoted, has anything been done about that by Liverpool? I'm not saying sack the guy or anything but that's a bit of a PR disaster for them really. He's slagging off Evra for accusing people of stuff they've not done, yet has done the exact same thing himself. Just looks a bit of poor form really on his b ehalf and it's quite frustrating to see people who are a journalist/columnist not do some proper research. That's the problem with stuff like twitter to, people just believe the first thing they see and it gets taken out of hand. A lot of people who saw it will be to ignorant to admit it's not true and judge Evra on this.
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He later tweeted this hilarious bit of backtracking....

I set out to show how this was wrong. I said Evra had accused people, based on 'previous' ie: the groundsman. This statement was not true.
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Yeah he set out to embarrass all the Liverpool fans that retweeted him and used his "official" position to try and make Evra out to be a serial accuser. fecking joke.
 
That's very well written, Feeky.
 
Great piece, Feeky -- and I agree with every word!

Regarding the previous cases, it's especially irritating how some people are trying to imply that the fact racism couldn't be proven is somehow equivalent to evidence that no racist slurs were in fact uttered. Not to mention the further fallacious leap of logic that the accuser(s) then must have been intentionally trying to deceive the authorities/the general public.
 
Fantastic piece of writing Feeky. I'd make a point of getting that on Twitter to a few of the more 'respected' journo's.

Nick Coppack has retweeted with regards to the Evra "mistruths" but it needs to be broadcast to the wider audience through the mainstream news. Nobody seems to follow Nick Coppack except United supporters!
 
I know it doesn't make it right, if Suarez did verbally abuse Evra in the manner he claims, but these accusations are so hard to prove and make stick, and with todays' media coverage of such games, you would expect something to have been picked up somewhere - if not on mic, then by the "lip-readers" - but there's nothing to suggest any other players heard anything either.
 
Nothing will happen. But it does seem odd that Evra would accuse Sewerez of racially abusing him if he didn't.

Sewerez is a sly fecker. I wouldn't put it past him. I doubt he screamed it or anything, but whispers in the ear is a possibility.

Nothing will ever get proved though. Just hope that big toothed cnut gets what's coming to him though
 
Nothing is going to happen because its too hard to prove

Just like the Peter Schmeichel V Ian Wright incident years ago.

I think they brought in lip readers for that but could not prove anything
 
Something else worth bearing in mind is that Evra IS a bit of a fiery character, who's had plenty of running battles with opposition players in the past. Kevin Davies and Michael Ballack being two that spring to mind.

Despite getting involved in all sort of clashes with the likes of Kevin Davies, Evra never once accused him of being a racist. Read into that what you will.
 
Even if there was evidence, this whole affair is likely to fizzle out. Can't damage the 'product', you see; there's precious little room for morality when there's money to be made...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Something else worth bearing in mind is that Evra IS a bit of a fiery character, who's had plenty of running battles with opposition players in the past. Kevin Davies and Michael Ballack being two that spring to mind.

Despite getting involved in all sort of clashes with the likes of Kevin Davies, Evra never once accused him of being a racist. Read into that what you will.
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He is a feisty character but he's not really one to do something petulant or low on football pitch, at least not on the basis of his time with us. He's not one to put dangerous tackles nor does he playact or dive. He's clearly gives as good as he gets in all aspects but I don't see him making such an accusation without basis. And we're talking about his word against one of the most disgraceful cheats in the game. So yes, I most definitely believe evra unless there is proper evidence against it being so.

And its not just a good guy vs evil guy. You'd have to think that very rarely would make an accusation like this for the fun of it. It's not as if Evra messed up big time and needs an excuse to hide behind. I thought he was excellent on Saturday
 
The question we should all ask ourselves is - would anyone be surprised if Suarez did call him a n****r?

it wouldn't surprise me because the man is a fecking grade a cnut
 
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