Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse

Don't know about that... the BNP got over half a million votes in the last general election (and about 3-4,000 in central Liverpool), why do you not think that the vile tweeters might not be in that number?

If anything, I would suspect that there are a large minority of those voters, however ignorant and misguided they are, who would not want to be associated with those tweets.

My error.

By BNP-type, I was referring to the aggressive, overtly anti-racist skinhead type of the 70s and 80s. Times have changed. BNP-types are now more likely to 'respectable' and couch their racism in similar language. They are unlikely to overly-defend a person's right to say "Evra is a f****** n***** c*** and deserves to die of aids".

My point was that these tweeters would not like to be in the national and local press after such tweets. I cant understand how anyone would not feel shamed after exposure on that level.
 
Well, I make two points as to why I believe prosecution is not the way to go with regards to the issue. Neither cancels the other out though, so it's not like I'm making a confusing argument against myself.

I think that the press is increasingly less powerful among younger people and makes any potential "naming and shaming" in the press less useful. The names have shamed themselves in the public domain already.

I had to laugh at my reaction to this.
I immediately went to "all of the old institutions are less powerful among younger people"
then "things were different when I was young"

its only a short step to
"this is the end of civilization as we know it"
"who can we turn to restore traditional values?"
"thank God for the BNP".

scary!
 
Scary indeed. This time last year - when you were a lad and this thread was just fields - could you ever envisage you'd be spending the early hours of Christmas morning discussing a rising tide of racism?
 
Scary indeed. This time last year - when you were a lad and this thread was just fields - could you ever envisage you'd be spending the early hours of Christmas morning discussing a rising tide of racism?

They aren't the early hours of morning here lad. Its 11.52.
 
Ah, you are ten hours ahead of me. Anyway I've finished wrapping my kids' presents and have exhausted myself debating in here. Have a good one mate.
 
You're not far wrong actually.

Just got this PM.


Mrs Smoker said:
Hey there. Thought you might be interested...

Pogue Mahone said:
Why hasn't that been bumped? Surely at least one caftard has an active account on there?

Actually, someone linked to it in their big thread about Suarez ban and asked about it. One person replied, but minute later both posts were deleted. No one else acknowledged any of those two posts or Jestrovic thread.

It was my first time witnessing the great RAWK moderation. A bit disturbing.

Cheers.
 
Haha they're such losers.

Omggggg it will tarnish our name forever!!!
 
You're not far wrong actually.

Just got this PM.

Aye, I imagined exactly that, obviously I exaggerated a bit but there was no way they would let their hypocrisy be open for all to see. I'm surprised it has not been deleted yet. It will as soon as it's realised it's gone public...

I'm going to save the page I think...
 
It's not often I agree with Les Murray but he's hit the nail right on the head here

Liverpool FC got into a bit of a tizz over Luis Suarez getting an eight-match ban for racism. It WILL get over it.
Liverpool has had it worse than this, such as when having to cope with its five-year expulsion from Europe after the Heysel tragedy.

Not to say Hillsborough and its carnage in 1989.

In fact, far from being in a tizz, Liverpool should not only condone the punishment as a measure of faith to the traditions of a noble football club, but should feel proud to be part of a football culture that is taking, it seems, some kind of international lead on not tolerating racism in the game.

England has some form in occasional forward thinking that surpasses and pre-empts the game’s most innovative thinkers (including any of those who may reside in Zurich).

It was the English who introduced three-points-for-a-win long before FIFA made it global and it was they who first punished with a red card the so-called professional foul, when, as a last resort, the last defending player brings down an attacker poised to score. At first FIFA balked at the English impertinence for bending the rules but quickly buckled and made it mandatory everywhere.

Now, I suspect, it is the English who will lead the way in stamping out on-field racism and before long FIFA will fall into line.

With Sepp Blatter’s oafish remarks about there being no on-field racism in football still ringing in the ears, Suarez cops an eight-match ban for it. Oh the irony. And the John Terry case is still to come.

Of course, Suarez continues to deny he has been racist and is appealing the sentence. His defence is predicated on the solitary claim that the name by which he called Patrice Evra, ‘negrito’ (little negro), is not a racist term in his native Uruguay.

This needs to be straightened out from the start.

It is a fact that in many parts of South America calling someone by a label that refers to their skin colour can often be, far from derogatory, a term of endearment.

I have personal experience in this.

My better half is Brazilian, with physical features that attest to an African racial heritage. From mixed parentage, she has olive skin such as you would find with a native of southern Europe or north Africa (she’s often asked if she’s Moroccan).

Soon after I met her we went for an outing to a Brazilian club in Sydney where one of her kinfolk, a big lad half snozzled on caiparinha, called her a ‘morena’.

I asked her: ‘What did he call you?’

‘Morena,’ she said.

‘What’s that?’

‘It’s a reference to my skin colour.’

‘So why didn’t you slap him in the face?’

‘What? Why should I have done that?’

‘Because, plainly, the man’s a racist skunk.’

‘No he’s not,’ she retorted. ‘What he actually said was, hey morena, you’re a truly beautiful woman, did you know that?’

I rested my case. It’s difficult to slap someone in the face after he calls you beautiful. Especially if you’re a woman. And I couldn’t bring my sense of chivalry to the point of smacking him given that he was about eight foot tall and had all the physical attributes of Junior Baiano.

I later learned that Brazilians make a big habit of affectionately labelling people according to their skin colour, physical appearance and, of course, the region from which they hail.

For instance if your skin is white and you have blond hair, there’s a good chance of you being nicknamed ‘alemao’, which means German in Portuguese.

Garrincha used to give affection to his celebrated wife, the singer Elsa Soares, by calling her ‘criula’, a reference to her skin colour. She’s black.

On referring the Suarez claim of innocence to a number of Uruguayans, I was told that indeed ‘negrito’ can be a term of endearment in that country.

One, a senior Uruguayan broadcaster whom I’ve known for 20 years, said: ‘In Uruguay it’s very common to use negrito as a term of endearment. This, for example, is the way I call my son. It’s very common for you to call your wife, negrita. Now, that depends on how you use it of course, of the context.’

Ok, so here’s the thing.

It’s not the term itself but the way and with what intent you use it. And, I am also told by my better half, it also depends on to whom you use it and under what circumstances.

You cannot, for example, do it to someone you have never met. And if you happen to be white and call a black man a ‘negrito’ in a derogative or even dismissive way, you are likely to cop a foot in the testicles, even in South America.

This is what rules out the suggestion, on which Suarez relies for his defence, that he was being nice or somehow chummy to Evra when he called him a ‘negrito, at least 10 times according to Evra.

It is doubtful if the exchange was in the context of, say, ‘Hey negrito, see you at my barbecue tomorrow.’ Or maybe, ‘By the way, negrito old chum, I’m in Paris on Wednesday. Can you recommend a good restaurant?’

I’ll leave it to you to figure out the only possible alternative context in which Suarez called Evra a ‘little negro’, addressing an opponent during a highly charged, highly competitive football match.

I’m pretty sure, in fact somewhere around 99.99 per cent certain, it could only have been a piece of blatantly racist sledging. Suarez deserves everything he gets.

Why Suarez is a racist : Les Murray : The World Game on SBS
 
Never-ending hatred up north

gulfnews : Never-ending hatred up north

London: Former Manchester United forward Mark Hughes has a memory about playing at Merseyside.

Warming up before a decisive game against Liverpool in April 1992, Hughes went to collect a practice ball from a young boy on the front row of the Main Stand. As he bent down, the boy — a Liverpool fan — threw it at him.

United and Liverpool have always felt their rivalry deeply. At times it has threatened to cross the line of what is decent. Now — after 183 games between the two clubs — we have Luis Suarez.

Banned for eight games by the FA for racially abusing United defender Patrice Evra, Suarez's suspension is due to end before a Barclays Premier League meeting between the great northern rivals at Old Trafford on February 11.

Always intense occasions, this game now promises to be toxic. United will feel they are entertaining a player with a record of racism. Liverpool blame Evra for besmirching their striker's good name.

Liverpool supporters made their feelings known at Wigan on Wednesday with a banner that labelled Evra a "militant black guy". Such enmity is only likely to fester and indeed grow until February 11.

Mutual disdain

Those not familiar with the depth of feeling between the two sets of fans — if not the clubs themselves — should perhaps understand the mutual disdain goes deeper than football. It concerns a shared mistrust of each other as people.

As broadcaster Stuart Maconie wrote in his book on the north of England, Pies and Prejudice: "It's not a rivalry. It's a vendetta, a blood feud that's Sicilian in intensity.

"It's contemptuous at best, raw, visceral hatred at worst, each always out for vengeance and reparation like the Hatfields and McCoys or the Campbells and McGregors."

Many of those who pack Old Trafford and Anfield will know nothing of the history that set these two great cities at each other's throats.

They will care little for the row over cotton that blew up in the 1890s and led to Manchester bypassing Liverpool docks by building a ship canal down which it could ferry imports straight from the ocean.

What they will tell you is how ingrained the feelings are. Liverpudlians believe their neighbours to be full of themselves. In Manchester, they patronise Scousers, viewing them as unsophisticated and insular.

On Wednesday, when Liverpool ran out at Wigan wearing T-shirts emblazoned with Suarez's name and number you could almost hear the tutting from the other end of the East Lancs Road.

The wisdom of those T-shirts will long be debated. Former United defender Paul McGrath expressed a widely-held view when he said: "As a footballer having experienced racist comments, I was saddened to see Liverpool players wear those T-shirts."

In part, both clubs share admirable values. Both managers, Kenny Dalglish and Sir Alex Ferguson, feel the pulse of their clubs like perhaps no other in the Premier League. It is this fierce local pride, though, that will serve to deepen the rift that threatens to open between Liverpool and United at every level.

Keane's assessment

As former United captain Roy Keane once said: "At the heart of our club is something real, something identifiably Mancunian. It is fundamental to the success of the club. It's a precious commodity and Liverpool have it, too. Arsenal and Chelsea and Leeds don't."

Part of this code, though, involves a refusal to concede ground. It was, by all accounts, Ferguson who accompanied Evra when he sought out a match official to report Suarez's comments at Anfield in October. It is thought Dalglish had a significant role in the aggressive statement published by Liverpool after the guilty verdict released by the FA.
 
This article from the Independent isn't great, but there's some interesting info in there about what Evra has had to deal with already in his career.

"He is not a highly educated individual and, though raised in France, his interviews in that country are often riddled with grammatical errors with the masculine and feminine definite articles confused."

This is pretty surprising for someone who is supposed to speak 5 or 6 languages. Any French Reds able to confirm this?

"We played in Palermo and every time I touched the ball 20,000 people would make monkey noises," Evra recalled. "I felt so alone and isolated." He played only three games for Monza before signing for Nice

When he chose the France national side over his native Senegal, there was also racist abuse from his compatriots..."I was called a monkey who grovels before the white man and labelled a money-obsessed traitor to the nation."

Brutal stuff, anyone who can play through that, which no one should have to put up with, is a very brave person, in my book.

Evra was abused for being black. He's a victim not a villain - News & Comment - Football - The Independent
 
On Wednesday 21st December, every single member of the Liverpool squad ran out onto the pitch wearing a Luis Suarez t-shirt, to show their support for the Uruguayan striker, who has been handed an 8-match ban for nothing!

And now YOU can show your support for Suarez too - at just £12 + p&p!

:wenger:

Liverpool Tees - Luis Suarez Tribute Tee
 
So it's gone from being unproven to banned 'for nothing' now??

This is the single greatest meltdown I have ever witnessed from RAWK, and it will only get better, as their form suffers without Suarez and their indignation increases. Cannot wait to see whats next :lol:
 
still the best in England??

hmmmm.
tshirt75.gif


I knew it, I knew it. It was so easy to predict they would underestimate our 19 league titles and wank over their European cups won thirty years ago.
 
If the BPL was a class room - Arsenal would be the kid who studies very hard and still fails to achieve success. Citeh is the kid who buys costly books but never gets the time to study. Chelsea is the kid who comes first in all the tests but fecks it up in the finals. United does alright in the tests but aces the final. Finally, Liverpool is the kid, who stopped studying a long time ago but has tremendous pride because his grandad was once top of class.


Childish but read this somewhere.
 
I was chatting to a work colleague of Peruvian descent and he said negrito is racist when used by someone with lighter skin. He said that South America is basically the caste system and people live in areas segregated by colour. He said this image of white people cheerfully greeting dark-skinned women as 'negrita' "just doesn't happen" and that discrimination is as "bad as South Africa", pointing out the existence of favelas, among other things, to back up his argument.
 
I was chatting to a work colleague of Peruvian descent and he said negrito is racist when used by someone with lighter skin. He said that South America is basically the caste system and people live in areas segregated by colour. He said this image of white people cheerfully greeting dark-skinned women as 'negrita' "just doesn't happen" and that discrimination is as "bad as South Africa", pointing out the existence of favelas, among other things, to back up his argument.

Yeah, I've thought it is the same as in the US or with gipsies in Hungary, .
 
Yeah, I've thought it is the same as in the US or with gipsies in Hungary, .

Its like that all over the world. I wanna see Suarez walking through the Favelas or the Bronx and great everyone with "hey blackie". Or a black person saying "whitie"... It just is not a friendly nice term without any further intention
 
regardless of all the definitions, the crux of the matter is the intent and the context. The slimey little fecker wasn't being pally.