Now this sounds more like reality.
Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse
- Thread starter Feeky Magee
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Now this sounds more like reality.
I believe Sewerez is very unhappy there's no snow in Merseyside as he wanted a White Christmas ( with apologies if this has been mentioned before )
Phil Thompson has just said on Sky Sports News that Suarez should have lied to the FA and said he didn't say anything instead of "grassing himself up". Unbelievable Jeff.
First thing he said was that if he was in charge of Liverpool he would have dealt with it the way it has been.
I mentioned in another thread that Dalglish has had a problem with officialdom in general from the very first game of his return, when Webb gave us a penalty for Agger's foul on Berba; Dalglish's face spoke volumes. And now, with die-hard Reds in the media, and (on a minor scale) Andy acting like the Rafa of RAWK, there's little or no chance of sensible debate about the Suarez situation. It would be completely hilarious if it weren't for the fact that racism is one of a number of blights on the game traditionally ignored by the authorities.
Which is why he is now a "pundit."
The most telling this about this is that I'm actually not at all surprised that he would say it.
It's not fair to paint everyone with the same brush, but this is exactly how I expected the scousers to act. They never disappoint when it comes to looking like a bunch of cnuts.
Are the shirts out again?
Muppets.
Anyone heard whether Suarez's appeal will allow him to be available for the Man City game on 3 Jan ???
If they don't appeal by the end of that day, he'll be banned then, otherwise it'll be prolonged. But the appeal won't affect that game.
AFAIK.
Can anyone paste Tony Evans piece in the times in this thread. Not signed up to the site.
If its not allowed/frowned uppon, sorry about that
If its not allowed/frowned uppon, sorry about that
I don’t know much about South American culture and slang. I do know, however, a little about the mechanics of confrontation. Even at Sunday League level, I’ve had verbal spats and faced down opposition players from Everton Valley to East Los Angeles. As a fan, I’ve exchanged insults — and worse — with rival supporters from Trafford Park to the Tiber.
That’s just the football-related stuff. In real life, I’ve been in the middle of riots, squared up to police on picket lines and fought fascist bully-boys with bare knuckles.
What have I learnt? Not much, but enough to know that if I’m having a row with a black man and I make a reference to his colour, he’s going to think it’s a racist slur.
Luis Suárez, Liverpool Football Club and legions of their fans seem bewildered that the word negrito directed at a black man in the course of an argument would lead the individual concerned to assume that he had been racially abused.
Nobody would deny that the exchange between Suárez and Patrice Evra was acrimonious. Nobody would deny that the word negrito makes reference to blackness. So where are Suárez’s grounds for defence?
Well, the linguistic experts tell us that negrito is not a pejorative term. In fact, it appears that it is a friendly phrase in Hispanic culture. In one defence of the Liverpool striker, the writer talked of hearing a young, white woman with a dark complexion being referred to by the same term during a business transaction in Buenos Aires.
The problem with this is that Evra is not a young white woman, nor is he Hispanic. He is a short, black Frenchman, who, from his perspective, appears to have been called something akin to “little black boy” by someone he was having a row with. Suárez, quite clearly, was not being genial. He was winding up Evra on the pitch in the heat of a Liverpool v Manchester United game. No wonder the defender felt racially abused.
In September, a mere handful of Liverpool fans would have even heard the term negrito. Now they are experts in the semantics of Hispanic slang, describing in detail how it is a term of affection. Well, if Suárez was being affectionate to a United player during a game, the club should crack down on him. An eight-game ban? Surely that should be a sackable offence?
There are so many words in English, French and Spanish that can be used in a quarrel that referencing colour in any way seems at best ill-advised and at worst racist. Either way it’s bloody stupid.
Suárez may not have had any racist intent but the Hispanic subtleties were lost on Evra. They’d be lost on most in Britain.
So this unedifying spat continues with Liverpool supporters — almost to a man — behind Suárez.
It is embarrassing. Is it not possible for Liverpool fans to have some empathy with Evra? To see that he felt racially abused? Seemingly not in the pathetically tribal world of football, where basic decencies are thrown out the window and the “my club right or wrong” ethic prevails.
If it were all a cultural misunderstanding, why didn’t Liverpool nip it in the bud in October? It may be me, but once the word negrito cropped up I winced. I may be culturally naive, but it sounded ugly. It would sound worse to a black man.
The club should have put out a statement that read something like this: “Patrice Evra has alleged that Luis Suárez made racist remarks to him during the game at Anfield. Suárez denies this emphatically but has come to realise that it was easy for Evra to misunderstand the nuances of the Spanish phrase used and believe that he had been racially abused. Suárez would like to apologise unreservedly for any upset caused and make clear that he is against racism and discrimination in all its forms. It was a poor choice of words in the context but any student of South American culture will explain it has no racial overtones. In future, Liverpool Football Club will issue its players with a set of guidelines as to what is acceptable and not acceptable.”
Effectively, just say sorry, I didn’t mean that, I feel a bit stupid now.
Suárez is not a racist but he has been a fool. The trick is not to compound foolishness.
Instead, Liverpool put out a statement that threw the blame back at Evra, then gave us the risible sight of Suárez warming up at the DW Stadium before the Wigan Athletic match in a T-shirt supporting himself.
Pointing the finger at Evra is shameful. It can only harden the FA’s determination to make its point. And despite the more rabid conspiracy theorists, this is a battle that the FA would rather not have.
This situation — along with the John Terry/Anton Ferdinand incident — has brought the game into disrepute and exposed racial fault lines in football and society that most thought had been buried forever. One look at the abuse that Stan Collymore — a former Liverpool forward — has been receiving shows that. Sadly, it looks like decency has been buried instead.
That’s just the football-related stuff. In real life, I’ve been in the middle of riots, squared up to police on picket lines and fought fascist bully-boys with bare knuckles.
What have I learnt? Not much, but enough to know that if I’m having a row with a black man and I make a reference to his colour, he’s going to think it’s a racist slur.
Luis Suárez, Liverpool Football Club and legions of their fans seem bewildered that the word negrito directed at a black man in the course of an argument would lead the individual concerned to assume that he had been racially abused.
Nobody would deny that the exchange between Suárez and Patrice Evra was acrimonious. Nobody would deny that the word negrito makes reference to blackness. So where are Suárez’s grounds for defence?
Well, the linguistic experts tell us that negrito is not a pejorative term. In fact, it appears that it is a friendly phrase in Hispanic culture. In one defence of the Liverpool striker, the writer talked of hearing a young, white woman with a dark complexion being referred to by the same term during a business transaction in Buenos Aires.
The problem with this is that Evra is not a young white woman, nor is he Hispanic. He is a short, black Frenchman, who, from his perspective, appears to have been called something akin to “little black boy” by someone he was having a row with. Suárez, quite clearly, was not being genial. He was winding up Evra on the pitch in the heat of a Liverpool v Manchester United game. No wonder the defender felt racially abused.
In September, a mere handful of Liverpool fans would have even heard the term negrito. Now they are experts in the semantics of Hispanic slang, describing in detail how it is a term of affection. Well, if Suárez was being affectionate to a United player during a game, the club should crack down on him. An eight-game ban? Surely that should be a sackable offence?
There are so many words in English, French and Spanish that can be used in a quarrel that referencing colour in any way seems at best ill-advised and at worst racist. Either way it’s bloody stupid.
Suárez may not have had any racist intent but the Hispanic subtleties were lost on Evra. They’d be lost on most in Britain.
So this unedifying spat continues with Liverpool supporters — almost to a man — behind Suárez.
It is embarrassing. Is it not possible for Liverpool fans to have some empathy with Evra? To see that he felt racially abused? Seemingly not in the pathetically tribal world of football, where basic decencies are thrown out the window and the “my club right or wrong” ethic prevails.
If it were all a cultural misunderstanding, why didn’t Liverpool nip it in the bud in October? It may be me, but once the word negrito cropped up I winced. I may be culturally naive, but it sounded ugly. It would sound worse to a black man.
The club should have put out a statement that read something like this: “Patrice Evra has alleged that Luis Suárez made racist remarks to him during the game at Anfield. Suárez denies this emphatically but has come to realise that it was easy for Evra to misunderstand the nuances of the Spanish phrase used and believe that he had been racially abused. Suárez would like to apologise unreservedly for any upset caused and make clear that he is against racism and discrimination in all its forms. It was a poor choice of words in the context but any student of South American culture will explain it has no racial overtones. In future, Liverpool Football Club will issue its players with a set of guidelines as to what is acceptable and not acceptable.”
Effectively, just say sorry, I didn’t mean that, I feel a bit stupid now.
Suárez is not a racist but he has been a fool. The trick is not to compound foolishness.
Instead, Liverpool put out a statement that threw the blame back at Evra, then gave us the risible sight of Suárez warming up at the DW Stadium before the Wigan Athletic match in a T-shirt supporting himself.
Pointing the finger at Evra is shameful. It can only harden the FA’s determination to make its point. And despite the more rabid conspiracy theorists, this is a battle that the FA would rather not have.
This situation — along with the John Terry/Anton Ferdinand incident — has brought the game into disrepute and exposed racial fault lines in football and society that most thought had been buried forever. One look at the abuse that Stan Collymore — a former Liverpool forward — has been receiving shows that. Sadly, it looks like decency has been buried instead.
Cheers Feeky
Nail on the head stuff for me. Big article for him to write too. Big liverpool fan and I cant imagine it will get a great reception. Fair play Tony Evans
Nail on the head stuff for me. Big article for him to write too. Big liverpool fan and I cant imagine it will get a great reception. Fair play Tony Evans
Fair dues to Tony Evans, Brian Reade and Dion Fanning for taking off the red googles and calling it as it is.
Do you think the fact that such writers are saying that LFC have made a big mistake in their handling of this will actually get through to the thickos on RAWK etc?
Do you think the fact that such writers are saying that LFC have made a big mistake in their handling of this will actually get through to the thickos on RAWK etc?
I think they'd be afraid to backtrack at this stage. I reckon given a choice now they woukd have handeled it differently from the start
In a word, no.
excellent article from Evans
fair and underlines the foolish nature of Suarez and the club
fair and underlines the foolish nature of Suarez and the club
Well, LFC will be appealing the judgement, they can't do otherwise after their statement. I just can't see them going to the law courts or CAS after that though, like the nutters on RAWK seem to want.
They must know they have no case. They'll just grudgingly accept the ban, without withdrawing their implication that Evra is the villain in all of this.
Very smart post Feeky. I will pass it along.
i think and fear you are right charleysurf and the ongoing bitterness will lead to some horrible incidents between fans . i cannot believe that any other club in the country would have dealt with this the way liverpool have.
Extremely unusual for Tony Evans to be fair and balanced when it comes to a Liverpool FC matter. Spot on with that article though.
Well, he seems to be accepting the idea that 'negrito' [which doesn't seem to be the word that was said anyway] is only a pleasant term.
"It was a poor choice of words in the context but any student of South American culture will explain it has no racial overtones."
I really doubt the above is true.
"It was a poor choice of words in the context but any student of South American culture will explain it has no racial overtones."
I really doubt the above is true.
i agree but it was just a suggested statement phrase ,i reckon that if liverpool had used the evans statement and route suarez' ban would have been 3 games .
Best line in the article.Feeky Magee said:
The idiots at RAWK were suggesting that negrito can be used without reference to skin colour like "mate". Despite it meaning "diminutive black". They're a special kind of stupid.
There's one spectacularly spastic pooler ranting at Evans on Twitter, spouting all the innaccurate bibble the dumber ones have convinced themselves of over the last few days. Only Evra's word, he's claimed racism before, how dare a scouser defend him etc, etc. Evans is responding with a concise "My club right or wrong. Have it. You're welcome to it"...Good on him. It mustn't be easy.
That is excellent. Do you have the source handy? I'd like to send the link around.
Outstanding piece from Evans. The following must be very 'close to home' for many online Liverpool supporters:
This alone - never mind Evans' criticism of people's reaction to the verdict - is painfully, hilariously true, true enough to embarrass RAWK et al. Of course, the fact that Evans will now be cast as a traitor tells you that his article is spot-on.
This alone - never mind Evans' criticism of people's reaction to the verdict - is painfully, hilariously true, true enough to embarrass RAWK et al. Of course, the fact that Evans will now be cast as a traitor tells you that his article is spot-on.
tony evans from the times
There'll be no link to it, The Times is Subscription only these days.
I suppose you can say anything.
It's safe to say they've been editing wikipedia to 'prove' it as well.
The thing is, it doesn't really matter what "The Idiots at RAWK" think, it won't effect his ban. To an extent it doesn't matter what Dalglish thinks either, although it might even lengthen his ban if they decide to appeal.
What matters at the end of the day is that an independent panel has reviewed all the evidence presented to them and found him guilty.
What matters at the end of the day is that an independent panel has reviewed all the evidence presented to them and found him guilty.
Would be quite amusing if they deemed any appeal to be frivolous and doubled his ban.
Was just about to post that article, it is unfortunately subscription only now though.
Probably the best piece I've read on the matter. To suggest that Suarez was being genial and affectionate towards Evra during a match in which they spent the 90 minutes fighting is ridiculous.
They have Johnson in the squad as well, I don't believe that, if he genuinely believed that negrito was acceptable here, he wouldn't have called him by that at some point in the past year and been corrected by Johnson/the squad.
Probably the best piece I've read on the matter. To suggest that Suarez was being genial and affectionate towards Evra during a match in which they spent the 90 minutes fighting is ridiculous.
They have Johnson in the squad as well, I don't believe that, if he genuinely believed that negrito was acceptable here, he wouldn't have called him by that at some point in the past year and been corrected by Johnson/the squad.
Thank you, I was waiting for someone highly educated to come out and speak reason. The anti-racism groups should be working overtime on this one.
it's really piling up against liverpool now.
He's either a brainless twat or spineless coward.
Actually, it's not an 'either' scenario.