...will go over their heads though...
Evra accuses Suarez of racist remarks | Suarez guilty of racial abuse
- Thread starter Feeky Magee
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
...will go over their heads though...
A post from The Liverpool Way, another Liverpool forum.
Re: Evra accuses Suarez of racism
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To be honest is this not a PR disaster?
Kenny is a walking PR disaster. It was pretty much always the case, but he got away with it early in his management career because he was invariably winning.
The other person who comes out of this fairly poorly is the owner. There are two ways he could have contained this PR nightmare, either step in himself early and take the path of least resistance - dampen down the bad news with an apology, it was all a cultural misunderstanding thing - and hardly anyone would even be talking about it now. Meanwhile you quietly appeal the length of the ban and the FA shortens it because you have shown penitence for the crime and are sending out the right signal.
If you do not want to get involved in this personally then you make sure you put in place a senior management structure at the club to handle it for you. A structure that has a strong communications head and a manager with strict instructions that any actions or comments he makes on this subject have to be signed off by the PR guy.
Dalglish is doing what he is doing undoubtedly to try and create a siege mentality and keep his team close in spirit and deed. But what is good for one part of a vast organisation like Liverpool is not necessarily good for the rest of it. The club's image and reputation is taking a battering because there are no senior people there who seem to have the power or remit to argue their own corners in the face of the scattershot approach of Dalglish.
I cannot imagine any one person would have this amount of scope within their job definitions to cause this much trouble at any of Henry's other sporting entities, I struggle to imagine why he permits this to happen at Liverpool.
Too much that seems to have happened at the club over the past year has been rather knee jerk, whether some of the ridiculous, panicky transfer deals or this sort of pandering to the baser instincts of the more rabid elements of the support. Good owners need to stand aloof from populist gestures, Henry seems to be far too acquiescent in the poor decision making made by the people he is trusting to run the club. I do not know if this is a competence issue or a currying favour one, either way I am worried.
The owner doesn't have the first clue of what he is doing when it comes to football. NESV bought Liverpool because someone told them they could buy one of the most widely supported sports franchises in the world for £200 million. They jumped at it. The glazers were looking for over 10 times as much for man utd. £200 million was cheap. There was however a couple of reasons as to why this storied franchise was available so cheaply.
The problem is that they don't know anything at all about football. They didn't realise what a mess Benitez had made of the club, with the assistance of H&G. they didn't know how incredibly shit most of the players were when they took over.
They didn't realise how much fecking money these players were on. They didn't realise how badly structured the squad was, they didn't realise how long their contracts were. They were only dimly aware of how bad the clubs underlying financial position was, and how costs were exploding as income fell.
They had some lovely little plans for a transfer guru to scour Europe for top players at fantastic prices, with a coach at the cutting edge of management, using the most modern of methods to weld the team into a winning machine.
However, NESV didn't realise that all of their plans were going to be fecked straight out the window, because King Kenny wanted the job, and let it be known to the world at large through his mates who were all in the media and saying what a great manager he would be.
NESV looked at their fans in near open revolt against their manager, and saw they were chanting for the return of a man who hadn't had any real involvement in football since he disgraced himself at Celtic and Newcastle, and they just buckled.
Out went any notion of young coaches with inventive tactics, out went clever purchases, in came insanely expensive players of unproven top level pedigree, but proven behavioural problems, at galactico prices. All rational economic planning went out the window as they "overspent to show the fans that they were prepared to spend big." before scouring the North East for unbelievably bad value.
NESV have little or no leverage over Dalglish. If they sacked him tomorrow they could never set foot in their own stadium again and would have to sell the club. KK can do whatever he wants, and unfortunately, it appears that he only seems to be interested in pissing and shitting all over his own reputation.
Whether it be buying terrible players, or wasting obscene amounts of money, or making an unbelievably awful mess of handling this Suarez case, or even buying the crazy uncontrollable cnut in the first place.
Suarez, Carroll, Downing and Henderson are enormous catastrophic club-crushing blunders. any other football manager who had made the catalogue of horrendous errors that Dalglish has made over the last 12 months would have been not only fired, but sued for the damage he's done to NESV's economic interests.
But ultimately there is nothing that they can do about it, other than wait until he realises that his best managerial days were under Thatcher, and hope that he fecks off back to the 19th hole with the MOTD pundits, to tell off-colour stories about the good old days.
NESV can then look at their falling income, escalating costs, rising losses, and try and rebuild again, in the knowledge that Liverpool have officially replaced nNewcastle as the most criminally mismanaged club in england. Pretty soon Liverpool fans are going to start every season hoping for a good run at a Europa league spot, and if one of the CL clubs wins the League cup, maybe we'll get it.
I know many will be very angry at what I have written but it's the truth and we all know it.
Blimey...
But apart from that, it's much like RAWK:
Evra accuses Suarez of racism - Page 132 - The Liverpool Way
Re: Evra accuses Suarez of racism
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest is this not a PR disaster?
Kenny is a walking PR disaster. It was pretty much always the case, but he got away with it early in his management career because he was invariably winning.
The other person who comes out of this fairly poorly is the owner. There are two ways he could have contained this PR nightmare, either step in himself early and take the path of least resistance - dampen down the bad news with an apology, it was all a cultural misunderstanding thing - and hardly anyone would even be talking about it now. Meanwhile you quietly appeal the length of the ban and the FA shortens it because you have shown penitence for the crime and are sending out the right signal.
If you do not want to get involved in this personally then you make sure you put in place a senior management structure at the club to handle it for you. A structure that has a strong communications head and a manager with strict instructions that any actions or comments he makes on this subject have to be signed off by the PR guy.
Dalglish is doing what he is doing undoubtedly to try and create a siege mentality and keep his team close in spirit and deed. But what is good for one part of a vast organisation like Liverpool is not necessarily good for the rest of it. The club's image and reputation is taking a battering because there are no senior people there who seem to have the power or remit to argue their own corners in the face of the scattershot approach of Dalglish.
I cannot imagine any one person would have this amount of scope within their job definitions to cause this much trouble at any of Henry's other sporting entities, I struggle to imagine why he permits this to happen at Liverpool.
Too much that seems to have happened at the club over the past year has been rather knee jerk, whether some of the ridiculous, panicky transfer deals or this sort of pandering to the baser instincts of the more rabid elements of the support. Good owners need to stand aloof from populist gestures, Henry seems to be far too acquiescent in the poor decision making made by the people he is trusting to run the club. I do not know if this is a competence issue or a currying favour one, either way I am worried.
The owner doesn't have the first clue of what he is doing when it comes to football. NESV bought Liverpool because someone told them they could buy one of the most widely supported sports franchises in the world for £200 million. They jumped at it. The glazers were looking for over 10 times as much for man utd. £200 million was cheap. There was however a couple of reasons as to why this storied franchise was available so cheaply.
The problem is that they don't know anything at all about football. They didn't realise what a mess Benitez had made of the club, with the assistance of H&G. they didn't know how incredibly shit most of the players were when they took over.
They didn't realise how much fecking money these players were on. They didn't realise how badly structured the squad was, they didn't realise how long their contracts were. They were only dimly aware of how bad the clubs underlying financial position was, and how costs were exploding as income fell.
They had some lovely little plans for a transfer guru to scour Europe for top players at fantastic prices, with a coach at the cutting edge of management, using the most modern of methods to weld the team into a winning machine.
However, NESV didn't realise that all of their plans were going to be fecked straight out the window, because King Kenny wanted the job, and let it be known to the world at large through his mates who were all in the media and saying what a great manager he would be.
NESV looked at their fans in near open revolt against their manager, and saw they were chanting for the return of a man who hadn't had any real involvement in football since he disgraced himself at Celtic and Newcastle, and they just buckled.
Out went any notion of young coaches with inventive tactics, out went clever purchases, in came insanely expensive players of unproven top level pedigree, but proven behavioural problems, at galactico prices. All rational economic planning went out the window as they "overspent to show the fans that they were prepared to spend big." before scouring the North East for unbelievably bad value.
NESV have little or no leverage over Dalglish. If they sacked him tomorrow they could never set foot in their own stadium again and would have to sell the club. KK can do whatever he wants, and unfortunately, it appears that he only seems to be interested in pissing and shitting all over his own reputation.
Whether it be buying terrible players, or wasting obscene amounts of money, or making an unbelievably awful mess of handling this Suarez case, or even buying the crazy uncontrollable cnut in the first place.
Suarez, Carroll, Downing and Henderson are enormous catastrophic club-crushing blunders. any other football manager who had made the catalogue of horrendous errors that Dalglish has made over the last 12 months would have been not only fired, but sued for the damage he's done to NESV's economic interests.
But ultimately there is nothing that they can do about it, other than wait until he realises that his best managerial days were under Thatcher, and hope that he fecks off back to the 19th hole with the MOTD pundits, to tell off-colour stories about the good old days.
NESV can then look at their falling income, escalating costs, rising losses, and try and rebuild again, in the knowledge that Liverpool have officially replaced nNewcastle as the most criminally mismanaged club in england. Pretty soon Liverpool fans are going to start every season hoping for a good run at a Europa league spot, and if one of the CL clubs wins the League cup, maybe we'll get it.
I know many will be very angry at what I have written but it's the truth and we all know it.
Blimey...
But apart from that, it's much like RAWK:
Evra accuses Suarez of racism - Page 132 - The Liverpool Way
That's a brilliant post
That is a great post.
Only a Liverpool supporter could out him that thoroughly. Ouch.
I hope that guy was using a proxy.
First direct reply:
Seems they don't agree with him.
Interesting counter arguments right there.
Is he still alive?
I "like" the tags at the bottom of that forum:
**ggers **=ta, a great bunch of lads, a grey area, dem blacks, eeny meeni miny mo, evra ate my horse, evra is near, evra stole my bike, french manc cnut, is it coz i is a cnut?, justice for gyan, major tom to andy cole, nazi mods, neggaz with attitude, negger, negrito stole my phone, nicker please!, pc gone mad, randy marsh is innocent, red shadow - garth crooks, spanish inquisition, spaz oddity, the blacks, troublesome negga, waiting for clearance...
"Like" as in how Stan Collymore has his "favorite" tweets.
**ggers **=ta, a great bunch of lads, a grey area, dem blacks, eeny meeni miny mo, evra ate my horse, evra is near, evra stole my bike, french manc cnut, is it coz i is a cnut?, justice for gyan, major tom to andy cole, nazi mods, neggaz with attitude, negger, negrito stole my phone, nicker please!, pc gone mad, randy marsh is innocent, red shadow - garth crooks, spanish inquisition, spaz oddity, the blacks, troublesome negga, waiting for clearance...
"Like" as in how Stan Collymore has his "favorite" tweets.
I think some fans are starting to lose faith. I'm talking with my liverpool mate and he said that KK is a tool and that he doesn't even care about winning but about fulfilling his own goals...."english core team, and trying to prove some bullshit that he can manage to win without team chem" interesting to say the least
like i said before, the counter arguments get weaker and weaker. at some point, liverpool fans are going to have to face the truth. I know the majority of them wont but i think some will have their eyes opened to what's going on. They still love rafa, mind, but there comes a point where you hit the threshold and once standards start slipping, questions will be asked.
That's the nail on the head right there, I'm amazed at how much of a joke and laughing stock they have become in what seems like a very short timescale....
No. It would only get through if they drop the tribalism-mentality. Which they won't.
Written by redshadow in the TLW. Truly amazing stuff. Almost bizarre and his stance reminds me of members of some marginalized religious sects.
I had to stop there.
Yesssssssssssss, I've often wondered about that. Oh, I know: it's because we're the best, and the others are not good enough. What a conspiracy...
Redshadow's previous post on the matter:
Re: Evra accuses Suarez of racism
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I personally think we Will end up going to war with the FA if we hadn't done that already (which we may have done by our actions). Also? I've read elsewhere on this thread that some think Legal Action by us to clear and/or avenge Luis good character being ruined by the Fa would be 'Unprecedented' - What? More unprecedented than an 8 match ban for something Never before charged in our game & further? Charged with No evidence? Well if that's the case - Let's Take such unprecedented action & now. The Only reason the faint hearted Cowards at the FA are prevaricating & delaying releasing the reasons for the decision (if not outright editing them in person)? Is simple. They damn well Know that there is virtually No smoking gun as there bloody well should of been for a case This big & there is No precedent either allowed for or followed by them in this either - they've chosen to set up a fight with us Deliberately rather than look at previous similar cases here & elsewhere when on a subject like that? They Should of applied precedent, considered similar cases from elsewhere & maybe applied a less harsh ban in accordance with those.
They should have done that since This case? Is far closer to/influenced by & indeed might end up Decided by English Law rather than Sporting Codes & in the end? English Law is Based on the very touchstone of Precedent - A foundation stone the FA have utterly disregarded with their crass & erroneous excuse for a so-called 'decision' on Luis. That is an error they will pay & pay Very dearly for ultimately as whilst Any legal action by us on Luis behalf against the FA might indeed be unprecedented whether it involves his character Or this case being taken all the way to the Sporting Arbitration Courts or indeed both? It will also be Very highly damaging (indeed possibly terminal) to the FA as we know it now.
However I think the Main point in all this row about the FA's jurisdiction has been overlooked - BTW re' Jurisdiction? They have precisely None on a subject like This (on the field yes involving sporting matters maybe but for questions like This that encompass race relations/insults/behaviour & a whole swathe of English Law? The FA have No power to pronounce or set precedents like That unchallenged & damn well know it - they've winged it thus far but that Won't last forever) Anyway - That main point I mentioned? Was quite spectacularly overlooked & ignored. The point is? Well consider it as this - Just because any such legal action on Luis' part by the club Might be unprecedented? Doesn't mean we Can't take it. There's nothing at All stopping us turning this into a civil case & drawn out legal battle to the bitter finish in order to clear Luis name in a Very public way. Something that will ultimately Utterly Humiliate & embarrass the FA as their's And Evra's case is completely destroyed outside of Sport in the eyes of the world & something that were we to do it? Would prove Every bit as damaging for the FA as the John Terry affair if not moreso & due to the possibility of that case coming from us & being civil? The FA can do not a Thing to stop us.
In fact the more I think about it? The more I think we Will end up doing this or something like it - Why? Simple because it will also Very heavily damage the one ultimately responsible for this unholy mess were the people & players he used completely humiliated by us after seeming to cause us such harm & given Who I (and prob' more importantly the Club no doubt) suspect that one is? I think we'd no doubt jump at the chance to get him - How else will we almost presented with a chance like this to cause severe damage & embarrassment to Alex Ferguson (for it is he ultimately behind all this - I'm sure of it)? I've a feeling in the end? He will be the ultimate loser from all this. It might even damage him like little else could If the full force of John Henry's lawyers is unleashed on the FA & Evra (and by extension United). In fact? It may turn out as The Worst move He's ever made. Not that he knows that just yet & it will be Far to late for him to prevent any damage by the time he does know.................
Further should we somehow find the case can't leave the sporting arena (unlikely)? Even then It might Still go the Court for Sporting Arbitration who have Very strong links with FIFA & would Love such a chance to humiliate the FA on their own ground in England as This would offer. In short? Such Legal action might be unthinkable or breaking new ground? But it's Not forbidden to us. It is, was & will remain an option for us to take whenever We like & eventually? I suspect take it we shall....................
Re: Evra accuses Suarez of racism
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I personally think we Will end up going to war with the FA if we hadn't done that already (which we may have done by our actions). Also? I've read elsewhere on this thread that some think Legal Action by us to clear and/or avenge Luis good character being ruined by the Fa would be 'Unprecedented' - What? More unprecedented than an 8 match ban for something Never before charged in our game & further? Charged with No evidence? Well if that's the case - Let's Take such unprecedented action & now. The Only reason the faint hearted Cowards at the FA are prevaricating & delaying releasing the reasons for the decision (if not outright editing them in person)? Is simple. They damn well Know that there is virtually No smoking gun as there bloody well should of been for a case This big & there is No precedent either allowed for or followed by them in this either - they've chosen to set up a fight with us Deliberately rather than look at previous similar cases here & elsewhere when on a subject like that? They Should of applied precedent, considered similar cases from elsewhere & maybe applied a less harsh ban in accordance with those.
They should have done that since This case? Is far closer to/influenced by & indeed might end up Decided by English Law rather than Sporting Codes & in the end? English Law is Based on the very touchstone of Precedent - A foundation stone the FA have utterly disregarded with their crass & erroneous excuse for a so-called 'decision' on Luis. That is an error they will pay & pay Very dearly for ultimately as whilst Any legal action by us on Luis behalf against the FA might indeed be unprecedented whether it involves his character Or this case being taken all the way to the Sporting Arbitration Courts or indeed both? It will also be Very highly damaging (indeed possibly terminal) to the FA as we know it now.
However I think the Main point in all this row about the FA's jurisdiction has been overlooked - BTW re' Jurisdiction? They have precisely None on a subject like This (on the field yes involving sporting matters maybe but for questions like This that encompass race relations/insults/behaviour & a whole swathe of English Law? The FA have No power to pronounce or set precedents like That unchallenged & damn well know it - they've winged it thus far but that Won't last forever) Anyway - That main point I mentioned? Was quite spectacularly overlooked & ignored. The point is? Well consider it as this - Just because any such legal action on Luis' part by the club Might be unprecedented? Doesn't mean we Can't take it. There's nothing at All stopping us turning this into a civil case & drawn out legal battle to the bitter finish in order to clear Luis name in a Very public way. Something that will ultimately Utterly Humiliate & embarrass the FA as their's And Evra's case is completely destroyed outside of Sport in the eyes of the world & something that were we to do it? Would prove Every bit as damaging for the FA as the John Terry affair if not moreso & due to the possibility of that case coming from us & being civil? The FA can do not a Thing to stop us.
In fact the more I think about it? The more I think we Will end up doing this or something like it - Why? Simple because it will also Very heavily damage the one ultimately responsible for this unholy mess were the people & players he used completely humiliated by us after seeming to cause us such harm & given Who I (and prob' more importantly the Club no doubt) suspect that one is? I think we'd no doubt jump at the chance to get him - How else will we almost presented with a chance like this to cause severe damage & embarrassment to Alex Ferguson (for it is he ultimately behind all this - I'm sure of it)? I've a feeling in the end? He will be the ultimate loser from all this. It might even damage him like little else could If the full force of John Henry's lawyers is unleashed on the FA & Evra (and by extension United). In fact? It may turn out as The Worst move He's ever made. Not that he knows that just yet & it will be Far to late for him to prevent any damage by the time he does know.................
Further should we somehow find the case can't leave the sporting arena (unlikely)? Even then It might Still go the Court for Sporting Arbitration who have Very strong links with FIFA & would Love such a chance to humiliate the FA on their own ground in England as This would offer. In short? Such Legal action might be unthinkable or breaking new ground? But it's Not forbidden to us. It is, was & will remain an option for us to take whenever We like & eventually? I suspect take it we shall....................
What is wrong with that idiot's caps lock?
Has he got a dodgy caps lock or is his style avant garde or something?
Avant garde.
Avant 'tard.
someone should post a picture of Fergie as the evil emperor or something
He's probably a big Emily Dickinson fan, like me.
I felt a Funeral in my Brain,
And Mourners, to and fro,
Kept treading — treading — till it seemed
That Sense was breaking through —
And when they all were seated,
A Service like a Drum —
Kept beating — beating — till I thought
My Mind was going numb —
And then I heard them lift a Box,
And creak across my Soul
With those same Boots of Lead, again.
Then Space — began to toll
As all the Heavens were a Bell,
And Being but an Ear,
And I and Silence some strange Race,
Wrecked, solitary, here —
And then a Plank in Reason, broke,
And I dropped down, and down—
And hit a World, at every plunge,
And Finished knowing — then —
I felt a Funeral in my Brain,
And Mourners, to and fro,
Kept treading — treading — till it seemed
That Sense was breaking through —
And when they all were seated,
A Service like a Drum —
Kept beating — beating — till I thought
My Mind was going numb —
And then I heard them lift a Box,
And creak across my Soul
With those same Boots of Lead, again.
Then Space — began to toll
As all the Heavens were a Bell,
And Being but an Ear,
And I and Silence some strange Race,
Wrecked, solitary, here —
And then a Plank in Reason, broke,
And I dropped down, and down—
And hit a World, at every plunge,
And Finished knowing — then —
Did she ever explain why she had such a spasticated style?
I was taught that she was mimicking the Bible's tendency to capitalize words for emphasis, as well as it's diction and style.
Well, I never read the Bible, and this was 14 years ago in poetry class. Is my memory failing me?
That's what I get for teasing your butterflies.
The idea, as I recall, was to express that she wasn't talking about the mundane form of the word but the more philosophical side, to give it status like with the capitalization of 'Him' for yahweh, or 'God'.
It always made me think of Plato and his 'ideal form' of everything that exist outside normal reality, that her capitalized words are supposed to represent that word in it's 'ideal form', the perfect version that things aspire to but never reach, as 'God' conceived them.
That bollocks from Redshadow is as close as it gets to being the equivalent of a scrawking child in hysterics having a petulant fit in the middle of a supermarket. Can't he/they just get over themselves and their paranoid delusions, grow up and accept the rightful outcome. The FA has the right to officiate over football disciplinary matters does it not - in this case appointing an independent panel which rightly found against Suarez. LFC inc players, manager, fans are really looking pretty 'effin stupid with their stance of denial. No matter how loud their illogical and poorly reasoned arguments are shouted they look more and more stupid the louder they get. I'm done with this topic - LFC et al and their idiotic bitter fans just come across as complete dullards on this one.
thats the product of a mbipolar in manic mode most likely. Lovely.
Well, I never read the Bible, and this was 14 years ago in poetry class. Is my memory failing me?
That's what I get for teasing your butterflies.
The idea, as I recall, was to express that she wasn't talking about the mundane form of the word but the more philosophical side, to give it status like with the capitalization of 'Him' for yahweh, or 'God'.
It always made me think of Plato and his 'ideal form' of everything that exist outside normal reality, that her capitalized words are supposed to represent that word in it's 'ideal form', the perfect version that things aspire to but never reach, as 'God' conceived them.
I can understand the capitalisation of 'him' because YHWH can't be uttered or written - but her's seems like overkill. I'm a big fan of not treating the audience like idiots - not everyone needs to be spoonfed, most can grasp subtleties without having them shoved down their throats.
and leave my butterflies alone.
That's a fair point. In her defense, she never really meant anyone to read her stuff. But that really shouldn't matter, the poems are all so short and minimalistic, all the nouns and verbs already stand out.
A quick googling suggested no one is too sure why she did it.
A quick googling suggested no one is too sure why she did it.
I must have missed that.
It's not a dodgy caps lock or he'd WRITE like tHIS, instead of capitalising single letters at a time.
Dodgy shift key, if anything*.
Spazzers.
*although I appreciate the problem's in his head, not his keyboard.
Dodgy shift key, if anything*.
Spazzers.
*although I appreciate the problem's in his head, not his keyboard.
In his head? He is obviously a fecking mutant, and as such, could have any amount of fingers.
Brilliant
But still... it just make me want the Schweinsteiger one back on the Internet.
But still... it just make me want the Schweinsteiger one back on the Internet.
Best thing you've ever done.
Love the original and all. 'Wu buck wild with the trigga!'.